All rebels seem to think that ring was the main man. Imagine how good Henry would be if players marking him had just 5 or 6 training sessions with their county????? Ring was a genius but he played against half prepared teams and half trained opponents

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 29/01/2014 19:01:47    1538495

Has to be king Henry or the dodger, thats DJ for those of you who dont know,
followed by Frank Cummins,by the way thurlesblues you mentioned Mick Roche
is that the Mick Roche from Waterford.

4bythenore (Kilkenny) - Posts: 360 - 29/01/2014 19:23:48    1538506

Impossible question. Nobody will say a goalkeeper so I'm gonna throw Damien fitzhenry out there. . .as a wexford man I have to.mention Nicky rackard. . From outside my own county you can't ignore Brian whelehan

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3148 - 29/01/2014 20:32:14    1538548

Dunno about that disillusionedfan, lads ring had to play against were a lot hardier than the walters of today. I dont think many lads today would last very long in a match back then, until they toughened up quite a lot. And before you say it, poking around in a gym with a lot of nancies doesnt make you tough. at all.

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 29/01/2014 20:55:44    1538565

Joe Canning.

WoodlawnPat (Galway) - Posts: 288 - 29/01/2014 21:07:42    1538578

flack
County: Dublin
Posts: 253

They'd have a much easier time adapting than the players of 50 years ago would now. It's a lot harder to get strong,fit and skillful than it is to get 'tough'.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 29/01/2014 21:40:02    1538613

I've just read this thread and it's a cracker. My father is a man who saw both Ring and Shefflin in their prime. He has been attending All-Ireland finals in hurling since the early forties. He feels that both players were/are magnificent players. His own feeling is that all you can be is the best of your time. He feels that without doubt Ring was the best of his time. He feels however that Shefflin is a superior player. Part of that is down to massive improvements in speed and huge increases in intensity. He feels it is pointless to try and compare players from different eras for that very reason. He believes each succeeding generation builds on what has gone before and consequently the game from the point of view of speed and intensity improves. He believes that consequently skill levels have to improve because players have less time in which to operate. He has a particular fondness for the great Jimmy Doyle. Doyle he says could have played in any era he has seen. He always says that no player he ever saw made the game look easier. He doesn't believe that either Henry Shefflin or Christy Ring are the best he has ever seen and he has seen most of the great ones from the forties on. He feels and he stresses it's his opinion only that Tommy Walsh is the most complete player he has ever seen. Apologies for talking at length about my father's thoughts on the games greatest players but given that he has been attending top class games for over seventy years I felt his opinions were worth sharing with ye.
I've been attending top class matches with him since the very early seventies and have attended every hurling final since 1972. I've been fortunate since then to have seen all the great players. I won't bore you with lists but a few for me and it's entirely subjective, stand out. I loved watching Tom Cashman. He was a great stylist who was a joy to watch. A man who has not been mentioned so far is Joe Cooney. He was brilliant. People speak about Nicky English but I preferred Pat Fox. Eamon Morrissey's star burned brightly for a while. No one can talk about hurling and not mention Brian Whelehan. One of the most skilled and intuitive players I ever saw was John Troy. Kevin Martin of that brilliantly entertaining team is the most underrated player I have seen. Brian Corcoran excelled at both ends of the field. Brian Lohan, john M ullane, Eamon Cregan, JBM, take your pick, Great players one and all. The best keeper ? For me, Noel Skehan.
There has been a lot of debate around DJ and Henry Shefflin. Both did things the other couldn't do. Dessie 13 describes DJ very well but is disparaging of Henrys qualities. Without the dirty work being done the magic moments don't happen. Henry did both. That is why Henry would be my choice of the two of them. When it comes to the best of all I'm with my father. Tommy Walsh.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 30/01/2014 12:22:25    1538710

Round and round it goes...where it stops nobody knows!

How long is a piece of string???

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 30/01/2014 12:38:45    1538716

Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 2883

great piece really enjoyed the read , great to have your fathers input , my own Dad in his eighties I find his views on football enlighening , the hurling fans out there will take a read and may or may not agree , there will be the usual who wont bother just trolling for a row .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 30/01/2014 13:25:51    1538737

Tommy Walsh. Without a doubt.

christy sting (Derry) - Posts: 262 - 30/01/2014 13:27:31    1538739

Damothedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1406

1538737 Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 2883

great piece really enjoyed the read , great to have your fathers input , my own Dad in his eighties I find his views on football enlighening , the hurling fans out there will take a read and may or may not agree , there will be the usual who wont bother just trolling for a row

Thanks Damo. My father is well worth listening to on both hurling and football. I would value your fathers opinions. These men have seen all the greats. They know what they are talking about.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 30/01/2014 16:56:09    1538883

just reading this thread the thought occured to me as to how lucky we are to have seen all those brilliant brave young men in their prime playing the best game i the world.since i posted a few more have mentioned eamon cregan,joe cooney,damien fitzhenry(won wexford a leinster one day on his own v offaly)noel skehan john fenton,pat fox,john troy kevin martin..tony doran also was great one..on and on and on..!!

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 30/01/2014 16:58:29    1538885

Great post green grass. Tommy Walsh def worth a mention n for me in top 2 of greatest team ever.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 30/01/2014 17:55:09    1538923

Its on threads like this that you would really miss Patrique. No doubt at all that some Antrim hurler from the 50's or 60's was as good or better than any of the greats mentioned.

As to the debate between DJ or Henry,its a tough one to call. If I was to pick one player that I would want in my side, it would be henry every time. But if I had to pick one player that I would pay in to a game to watch, it would have to be DJ.

anfearbeag (Meath) - Posts: 1134 - 30/01/2014 19:03:06    1538953

Great post Greengrass.

All of the players are worth a mention. I am glad that Tom Cashman's name was amongst them. He was coming to an end when I started watching him but managed to excel still for a few years at club level though never got see him in his prime.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 30/01/2014 19:19:05    1538963

Great post greengrass - your Dad is a wise man!

I have seen all the modern players and I consider myself very privileged to have witnessed some of the great players and games.

The question is who is the greatest. With respect to Tipp - John Doyle was a fine hurler but the greatest should not be confused by the number of medals.

DJ had incredible speed and scored fantastic goals. I strongly disagree with the notion that DJ did not mix it. He had that incredible talent that few hurlers have matched - the ability to light up a game with a turn, a goal a pass. Henry is a bigger man and his skill, determination is again incredible.

What has marked Henry out for me is the fact that he has come back time and time again after very bad and for others - career ending injuries. That makes Henry stand out - his refusal to give up - his personal determination to get the best out of himself. Very very few hurlers even in the modern era have shown such determination.

Tommy Walsh is in the same league as DJ. Brian Sid Whelehan is in the classic - league as DJ also- What battles they had! For me Pat Fox was a serious dangerman and was economical with the ball - direct and deadly.

Joe Cooney I hope will join the debate - his goal against Kilkenny was one of the greatest I have ever seen - absolute class.

JJ another class act - how many All Irelands has he? And again - Brian Lohan - what a player - very few could raise such a roar as the great man coming out with the ball - inspirational !!

I saw JBM and Ray Cummins - both very good but ... And what about Ken McGrath - a class hurler also - we could go on and on - that's the great thing about hurling. Those of us who love it - never tire of it!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1849 - 30/01/2014 19:20:52    1538969

This a very subjective issue. Great players come at different times,and are found in all counties, not just the stronger ones.As an Offalyman I think Brian Whelehan is out there with the best of them.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 30/01/2014 19:29:00    1538971

If Kilkenny win the AI and Henry plays a pivotal role (which i think will have to happen if Kilkenny are to win it) it will be past debate who's the greatest until the next fella comes along. If he comes back from his injury and the past year he's had it will be seriously impressive.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 30/01/2014 19:38:59    1538978

Tommy Doyle was probably the greatest half back of all time
Held the great Ring scoreless in two drawn games and extra time

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 30/01/2014 20:10:08    1538988

Please don't try to ruin this thread as well!

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 30/01/2014 20:16:12    1538993