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I'm always fascinated in the nuances between the Manager and Lead Coach combination versus a Manager who is the lead Coach.
e.g Jim Gavin, Jim McGuiness, Pep, Klopp versus Pádraic Joyce, Jack O'Connor, Kevin McStay, Declan Bonner.
Jim Gavin & Jim McGuiness lead training, shape tactics as well as defining the philosophy, culture and control executive decisions etc.
While other managers will give a lead coach more control to define the teams coaching philosophy and tactics. Such as Stephen Roachford under Declan Bonner and Kevin McStay.
Cian O'Neill has a very interesting track record, he is a highly successful & proven Hurling and Football coach. But under his own admission struggled with the overwhelming pressure while manager of his native Kildare.
But after returning to a lead coaching role under Joyce, he has excelled in Galway winning 3 successive Connacht titles & 2 All Ireland final appearances.
Was his absence in the Galway backroom team a factor this year? and will his inclusion in Kerry back room team make a difference this year?
The_viewer (Donegal) - Posts: 23 - 02/07/2025 21:40:15
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The reality is that it is so hard to find that generational, all singing all dancing Team Manager that delivers All irelands
Dublin - Heffo, Jim Gavin, Dessie Farrell
Kerry - Micko, Páidí Ó Sé & Jack O Connor
Donegal - Brian McEniff
Meath - Sean Boylan
Cork - Billy Morgan
Galway - John O Mahony
Down - Pete McGrath
Tyrone - Mickey Harte
There is then a raft of managers who were good enough to deliver an Ireland against the odds, but couldn't produce sustained excellence
Eugene McGee, Eamonn Coleman, Pat O'Neill, Joe Kernan, Pat O'Shea, Conor Counihan, Pat Gilroy, Jim McGuinness, Éamonn Fitzmaurice, Feargal Logan & Brian Dooher, Kieran McGeeney
There are then a cohort of nearly men, who brought their counties to great heights consistently, without landing the big one.
Art McRory, Larry Tompkins, John Maughan, Mickey Moran, Stephen Rochford, James Horan, Pádraic Joyce
Then you have the managers who brought relative success to weaker counties
Liam Kearns, Malachy O'Rourke and Sean MacCague
The idea of a first team coach to go with the manager is a new development (you would be well pushed to name the coaches to go with each of the most successful managers.
In reality, the successful managers took over the whole show, from fundraising to organizing food and transport.
Those kind of individuals (who can do it all) are few and far between.
All counties would be better served with a director of football model (where a full time individual organizes the logistics, S&C, physios, medical etc for all the county teams) and leave a coach to coach and pick the senior team.
There are lots of qualified coaches, who could coach a single team. There are very few who can take over the whole operation and deliver all Irelands.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1521 - 07/07/2025 15:50:43
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The reality is that it is so hard to find that generational, all singing all dancing Team Manager that delivers All irelands
Dublin - Heffo, Jim Gavin, Dessie Farrell
Kerry - Micko, Páidí Ó Sé & Jack O Connor
Donegal - Brian McEniff
Meath - Sean Boylan
Cork - Billy Morgan
Galway - John O Mahony
Down - Pete McGrath
Tyrone - Mickey Harte
There is then a raft of managers who were good enough to deliver an Ireland against the odds, but couldn't produce sustained excellence
Eugene McGee, Eamonn Coleman, Pat O'Neill, Joe Kernan, Pat O'Shea, Conor Counihan, Pat Gilroy, Jim McGuinness, Éamonn Fitzmaurice, Feargal Logan & Brian Dooher, Kieran McGeeney
There are then a cohort of nearly men, who brought their counties to great heights consistently, without landing the big one.
Art McRory, Larry Tompkins, John Maughan, Mickey Moran, Stephen Rochford, James Horan, Pádraic Joyce
Then you have the managers who brought relative success to weaker counties
Liam Kearns, Malachy O'Rourke and Sean MacCague
The idea of a first team coach to go with the manager is a new development (you would be well pushed to name the coaches to go with each of the most successful managers.
In reality, the successful managers took over the whole show, from fundraising to organizing food and transport.
Those kind of individuals (who can do it all) are few and far between.
All counties would be better served with a director of football model (where a full time individual organizes the logistics, S&C, physios, medical etc for all the county teams) and leave a coach to coach and pick the senior team.
There are lots of qualified coaches, who could coach a single team. There are very few who can take over the whole operation and deliver all Irelands." Mc Eniff only won one all ireland and only brought Donegal to one final ever.Why have you him in with JIm Gavins list
brayballer (Wicklow) - Posts: 217 - 07/07/2025 16:22:50
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Replying To brayballer: "Mc Eniff only won one all ireland and only brought Donegal to one final ever.Why have you him in with JIm Gavins list" Some lads will just nit pick faults in anything, oblivious to the overall point.
The point was that the whole idea of a superstar all singing all dancing manager is an outdated notion.
A Manager manages the whole operation and the coach takes training these days.
For the investment in managers, they should be employed to take on a management role of the entire intercounty set up as a director of football. with a senior coach appointed to each county team.
Short term success is not really achievable - most counties that are successful bring through successful underage teams. Appointing the right person to ensure success across the whole structure is a much better use of resources.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1521 - 10/07/2025 14:03:19
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Some lads will just nit pick faults in anything, oblivious to the overall point.
The point was that the whole idea of a superstar all singing all dancing manager is an outdated notion.
A Manager manages the whole operation and the coach takes training these days.
For the investment in managers, they should be employed to take on a management role of the entire intercounty set up as a director of football. with a senior coach appointed to each county team.
Short term success is not really achievable - most counties that are successful bring through successful underage teams. Appointing the right person to ensure success across the whole structure is a much better use of resources." For fear of also being dubbed a nit picker, I'm also a little lost at your point. Barring Jack O'Connor, have any senior managers have won anything lately without a hands-on approach to coaching?
JOC the only man to win Sam for a long while without being head coach. Last time in Ulster was Bonner in 2019. Does that not point to the opposite conclusion that a hands-off approach to training (which is not uncommon for teams in Div 1/2) is not particularly successful?
E.G. McGuinness across two tenures as manager/head coach of Donegal has 5 Ulster titles and an All-Ireland to show for his 6 seasons.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 481 - 10/07/2025 15:21:09
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Replying To The_viewer: "I'm always fascinated in the nuances between the Manager and Lead Coach combination versus a Manager who is the lead Coach.
e.g Jim Gavin, Jim McGuiness, Pep, Klopp versus Pádraic Joyce, Jack O'Connor, Kevin McStay, Declan Bonner.
Jim Gavin & Jim McGuiness lead training, shape tactics as well as defining the philosophy, culture and control executive decisions etc.
While other managers will give a lead coach more control to define the teams coaching philosophy and tactics. Such as Stephen Roachford under Declan Bonner and Kevin McStay.
Cian O'Neill has a very interesting track record, he is a highly successful & proven Hurling and Football coach. But under his own admission struggled with the overwhelming pressure while manager of his native Kildare.
But after returning to a lead coaching role under Joyce, he has excelled in Galway winning 3 successive Connacht titles & 2 All Ireland final appearances.
Was his absence in the Galway backroom team a factor this year? and will his inclusion in Kerry back room team make a difference this year?" Re your point on Cian O'Neill and Galway - the answer imo is one million percent his absence was huge.
Outside of obviously having good players - his influence was the key factor in us getting to those finals.
galwayman2 (Galway) - Posts: 1324 - 10/07/2025 16:30:35
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Replying To SurelyToGod: "For fear of also being dubbed a nit picker, I'm also a little lost at your point. Barring Jack O'Connor, have any senior managers have won anything lately without a hands-on approach to coaching?
JOC the only man to win Sam for a long while without being head coach. Last time in Ulster was Bonner in 2019. Does that not point to the opposite conclusion that a hands-off approach to training (which is not uncommon for teams in Div 1/2) is not particularly successful?
E.G. McGuinness across two tenures as manager/head coach of Donegal has 5 Ulster titles and an All-Ireland to show for his 6 seasons." On the point of Jack O Connor- i'd say he is a fairly hands on and capable coach. He spent years as a coach underage and kids as part of the day job as a teacher. Don't think he had a head coach to do the work for him there.
McGuinness's once had a well known coach back in 2011-2014 also.
I don't think there is a team manager who doesnt have an effect of the coaching on the team, sitting idly by and taking the flat for some other guys work.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1521 - 11/07/2025 09:00:51
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