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Clare, Limerick, Tipperary And Waterford Ruining Munster Football And All Ireland Championship?

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A seeded draw is nothing short of cheating. Called an open draw but two teams not in the hat. If you want a shot at a Cork v Kerry final then you need to do a round robin. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3158 - 09/07/2025 15:05:31 2624645 Link
Replying To Canuck: "A seeded draw is nothing short of cheating. Called an open draw but two teams not in the hat. If you want a shot at a Cork v Kerry final then you need to do a round robin." I agree with you.While I see the merits of a seeded draw I think its unfair especially to so called weaker countues. However the gaa only care about money so they love a seeded competion.The biggest attraction in Munster football is Kerry v Cork. IF they meet in a first round game the charge probably 20e per person.If they meet in a final they gaa can charge 35e per person. In my lifetime I have seen both Clare and Tipp win Munster senior football titles which was fantastic.However Tipp beat Cork and Clare beat Kerry. Im not so sure either Clare or Tipp would have won if they had to beat both Cork and Kerry in the same year. The province should be fair to all and should be an open draw imo. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4072 - 09/07/2025 16:03:06 2624661 Link
Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree with you.While I see the merits of a seeded draw I think its unfair especially to so called weaker countues. However the gaa only care about money so they love a seeded competion.The biggest attraction in Munster football is Kerry v Cork. IF they meet in a first round game the charge probably 20e per person.If they meet in a final they gaa can charge 35e per person. In my lifetime I have seen both Clare and Tipp win Munster senior football titles which was fantastic.However Tipp beat Cork and Clare beat Kerry. Im not so sure either Clare or Tipp would have won if they had to beat both Cork and Kerry in the same year. The province should be fair to all and should be an open draw imo." Leinster seed their draws though. You dont see Dublin out in the prelim round away to Carlow tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 10/07/2025 13:22:59 2624809 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "Leinster seed their draws though. You dont see Dublin out in the prelim round away to Carlow" Finalists get a bye, that's not the same as a seeded draw Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 10/07/2025 14:34:31 2624824 Link
Limerick got to the final of the next highest level competition and acquitted themselves well. Where would that put them in the standings and why would they be denied the right to play in a Muster final just to give advantage to Kerry and Cork. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3158 - 13/07/2025 20:09:13 2625366 Link
Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree with you.While I see the merits of a seeded draw I think its unfair especially to so called weaker countues. However the gaa only care about money so they love a seeded competion.The biggest attraction in Munster football is Kerry v Cork. IF they meet in a first round game the charge probably 20e per person.If they meet in a final they gaa can charge 35e per person. In my lifetime I have seen both Clare and Tipp win Munster senior football titles which was fantastic.However Tipp beat Cork and Clare beat Kerry. Im not so sure either Clare or Tipp would have won if they had to beat both Cork and Kerry in the same year. The province should be fair to all and should be an open draw imo." In 2004, and Tom O':CShea admitted it in tonight's SG Program, Kerry were very lucky indeed to pull through against Limerick, after a replay. They absolutely pulvetised every other team they met that year. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4520 - 14/07/2025 00:03:53 2625461 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Finalists get a bye, that's not the same as a seeded draw" Partial seeding is no better than full seeding. It should be open draw for all, or seeding for all. Remember the Meath v Dublin saga in 1991 was a first round match - It made GAA football the biggest Sport going after World Cup 1990 had soccer on top. Such a draw is no longer possible in Leinster - which, with the exception of 2025, has been the worst championship for 20 years. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 14/07/2025 14:40:46 2625631 Link
Replying To ORIELMAN85: "I have an idea. Put Kerry in the Ulster Championship and cut their titles by 75%." If Kerry played in Ulster throughout their history, they'd likely have more titles than less. You look at this through the last 35 years and say they'd have less titles. However, the previous 100 years before that, they'd have probably won 80 to 90 Ulster titles as it was by far the weakest province. It's easy to forget Cork had a proud Munster record for most of the c. 100 years before 2010, albeit Kerry did still win c. 2x fir every Cork win over that period. BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 321 - 14/07/2025 15:28:25 2625650 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "We all know Kerry yearn for the days when the other Munster counties wouldn't even bother to tog out in a semi final and just leave them to play Cork in a Munster final. The league split over two years so they could play your own club championship in April and May , beat Cork in June (2 out of 3 years) and off up Croker to play weak Ulster teams (who were busy fighting for civil rights) or Connacht teams (who were emigrating like no tomorrow). Oh for the Golden years of Kerry, two tough matches a year and SAM back in Kerry every September. Kerry and Cork have always wanted a seeded Munster championship. The other counties once lined the idea of playing each other before facing the big two, but realised the best way to promote the game was an open draw and a fair shot at winning the thing (only one shock result needed per season instead of two). The reality is that Munster football would be better served overall by having a round robin with two groups with semis and finals (Cork, Kerry, Clare) (Limerick, Tipp, Waterford). Giving each county a guarantee home match every season and 4 games to win the title. The current set up does no one a favour (except a once off win by Tipp during COVID)" I don't see how this can be allowed if provincial finalists go straight to Sam latter stages. That is not fair for any county let alone Munster counties other than Cork and Kerry. I think some of your commentary however is a bit off. First of all throwing immigration as an advantage to Kerry is rich. Looking at London, easily the two biggest counties contributing to the diaspora, would be both Mayo and Cork, closely followed later years by Donegal. I think they have as big a problem historically in that regard. The easy route to finals. Maybe less games than Leinster. Ulster had more games but had their own struggles. Mayo and Galway had a very similar advantage every year to Kerry. I suppose at least there was a strong Cork to play most years. Connacht didn't even have that, with Galway really being the only realistic competitor for All Irelands from the province, up to 2011. I agree on the seeding point being wrong, but denigrating other counties to take swipes at Kerry is wrong. If Cork were playing in Connacht throughout its existence, it could easily have as many Connacht titles as Galway and All Irelands for that matter, let alone Mayo. The recency bias of some people on here to look down their nose at counties, such as Cork and I could but won't name others is incredible. Especially from a position of such weakness, such as Mayo at the moment, which is arguably not much better than Cork as it stands. BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 321 - 14/07/2025 15:44:42 2625654 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "Partial seeding is no better than full seeding. It should be open draw for all, or seeding for all. Remember the Meath v Dublin saga in 1991 was a first round match - It made GAA football the biggest Sport going after World Cup 1990 had soccer on top. Such a draw is no longer possible in Leinster - which, with the exception of 2025, has been the worst championship for 20 years." Clown in mayo litter trying hate kerry pathetic Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 881 - 14/07/2025 16:31:58 2625670 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "In 2004, and Tom O':CShea admitted it in tonight's SG Program, Kerry were very lucky indeed to pull through against Limerick, after a replay. They absolutely pulvetised every other team they met that year." I agree.Limerick should have won a Munster title then under Liam Kearns. Johnny McCarthy in the fb line,Stephen Lucey a brilliant centre back.Stephen Kelly a speedster half forward and the poerhouse John Galvin midfield CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4072 - 14/07/2025 16:46:07 2625675 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "Partial seeding is no better than full seeding. It should be open draw for all, or seeding for all. Remember the Meath v Dublin saga in 1991 was a first round match - It made GAA football the biggest Sport going after World Cup 1990 had soccer on top. Such a draw is no longer possible in Leinster - which, with the exception of 2025, has been the worst championship for 20 years." There is a huge difference between the previous years semifinalists getting a bye to the QF, along with 1 of the other 7 counties, which is the format in Leinster, and seeding 2 counties by name so they can't meet until the final every year. In Leinster the previous years finalists can meet in the semifinals, which are drawn after the quarter finals are played. Meath v Dublin was a possibility in the QFs this year for example. It won't be next year though, but it will be possible for them to meet in the Semifinals again. Louth v Meath is also a possibility for the Semifinals. So what are you on about? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 14/07/2025 16:53:10 2625680 Link
The sense of entitlement from people in munster counties sans Cork and Kerry is something to behold because it distorts the entire championship and doesn't allow Teams promoted from Division 3 (Kildare and Offaly this year) since provincial finalists come ahead of the league rankings due to some outdated notions about 'compeition' when considering even before the foundation of the state Kerry have effectively monopolised munster with the odd Cork rebellion ruining the game since the other four prioritize hurling whose championship is upholding much needed reforms across both codes. Look if the four counties want to keep the munster football championship how about improving underage structures, get more schools from those counties playing Colleges 'A' football and getting players into Sigerson Cup teams instead of whinging how the entire world is against them in the first place that frankly annoys GAA folk outside the southern province. MaroonManiac (Galway) - Posts: 3 - 14/07/2025 18:18:46 2625705 Link
Replying To MaroonManiac: "The sense of entitlement from people in munster counties sans Cork and Kerry is something to behold because it distorts the entire championship and doesn't allow Teams promoted from Division 3 (Kildare and Offaly this year) since provincial finalists come ahead of the league rankings due to some outdated notions about 'compeition' when considering even before the foundation of the state Kerry have effectively monopolised munster with the odd Cork rebellion ruining the game since the other four prioritize hurling whose championship is upholding much needed reforms across both codes. Look if the four counties want to keep the munster football championship how about improving underage structures, get more schools from those counties playing Colleges 'A' football and getting players into Sigerson Cup teams instead of whinging how the entire world is against them in the first place that frankly annoys GAA folk outside the southern province." If only they'd stop playing that oul hurling.... Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 14/07/2025 23:21:45 2625755 Link
Replying To MaroonManiac: "The sense of entitlement from people in munster counties sans Cork and Kerry is something to behold because it distorts the entire championship and doesn't allow Teams promoted from Division 3 (Kildare and Offaly this year) since provincial finalists come ahead of the league rankings due to some outdated notions about 'compeition' when considering even before the foundation of the state Kerry have effectively monopolised munster with the odd Cork rebellion ruining the game since the other four prioritize hurling whose championship is upholding much needed reforms across both codes. Look if the four counties want to keep the munster football championship how about improving underage structures, get more schools from those counties playing Colleges 'A' football and getting players into Sigerson Cup teams instead of whinging how the entire world is against them in the first place that frankly annoys GAA folk outside the southern province." Since 1966, while two All Ireland Seniir Titles have gone to Connacht, over 20 have gone South. It is very difficult to promote Football in the smaller Munster Counties in those circumstances. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4520 - 15/07/2025 10:58:41 2625802 Link
Replying To Viking66: "There is a huge difference between the previous years semifinalists getting a bye to the QF, along with 1 of the other 7 counties, which is the format in Leinster, and seeding 2 counties by name so they can't meet until the final every year. In Leinster the previous years finalists can meet in the semifinals, which are drawn after the quarter finals are played. Meath v Dublin was a possibility in the QFs this year for example. It won't be next year though, but it will be possible for them to meet in the Semifinals again. Louth v Meath is also a possibility for the Semifinals. So what are you on about?" The point is that Meath V Dublin in 1991 made the modern GAA mainstream - before that is was all GAA men and their sons going to matches. That match had the previous 2 Leinster Champions in the first round, one of whom had been in the All Ireland the year before. That cannot happen anymore because the Leinster draw is rigged to prevent it. Anyone in Connacht complaining about MUnster needs to remember that the Connacht draw is also rigged to rotated away matches in London and New York - thus preventing these teams from meeting and getting an easier draw. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 16/07/2025 09:00:49 2625978 Link
I wonder could the GAA take football a step further after implementing the new rules and effectively switch the NFL and championship around? Run the provincial championships as a league early in the season (Leinster & Ulster might have to be run with smaller groups) with the winners going into a semi final of an all Ireland league title. If winning this provincial/national league carried some reward towards championship it might be taken seriously. Then have the championship as 2 divisions (current) or 4 divisions (similar to hurling) playing in a round robin format? Similar number of games as now, less travel earlier in the season and hopefully less lob sided games in championship. The obvious problem would be accommodating New York but a possible benefit for the majority? slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6530 - 16/07/2025 09:17:02 2625984 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The point is that Meath V Dublin in 1991 made the modern GAA mainstream - before that is was all GAA men and their sons going to matches. That match had the previous 2 Leinster Champions in the first round, one of whom had been in the All Ireland the year before. That cannot happen anymore because the Leinster draw is rigged to prevent it. Anyone in Connacht complaining about MUnster needs to remember that the Connacht draw is also rigged to rotated away matches in London and New York - thus preventing these teams from meeting and getting an easier draw." Neither of those situations in Leinster or Connacht is anything like 2 named counties bring seeded to meet in the final. Which is what this thread is about. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 16/07/2025 09:23:58 2625987 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Neither of those situations in Leinster or Connacht is anything like 2 named counties bring seeded to meet in the final. Which is what this thread is about." The fact is that the best championship in the country is in Ulster - which has no fixed element at all. Leinster seeds qfinals, Munster seeds semi finals and Connacht has a partial fix of qfinals. Generally, the best championship matches have been first round matches were the big guns draw each other. A draw like that effects the way a Kerry/Galway/Dublin tailor their whole training programme. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 16/07/2025 10:13:16 2626003 Link
I think it's really easy to argue that both All Ireland competitions would be better if provincial finalists weren't entering the Sam Maguire. The main impact would be on scheduling where the Tailteann couldn't get going early and teams would be waiting around to play. To mitigate that it'd be better to have League and Provincials played in parallel. You make those 2 changes and I think the season is way better without having to change much else. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4611 - 16/07/2025 13:16:17 2626057 Link