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Draw For Group Stages Of All Ireland Series

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Replying To Fionn: "Makes absolutely no sense.... Leaves it wide open to abuse of the system. Cant imagine it would happen but stranger things have happened....." Would make sense to rest lads for final if loss meant significantly easier draw. Not to lose deliberately but to keep powder dry. As Donegal did to advantage in last two rounds of league. McGuinness would hardly think twice about doing similar in Ulster final if it obviously benefitted them, if only to have fresh legs for vital group opener. Doesn't really make a difference with this draw. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3473 - 30/04/2025 23:29:33 2605884 Link
Kerry would have been eoic but dirst game bectough anyway. Terrible last Sunday but get impression they are not overly concerned. Bolger and McMahon and hopefully Murchin back. Two Smalls up to match spped after some game time. Teams be more wary of meeting them than Vicente Versailles. Should make quarter finals. Aftter that, will depend on draw. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3473 - 30/04/2025 23:43:38 2605887 Link
Irrespective of the silliness of how the draw is set up and it is silly on so many levels the draw itself was poorly run. It's meant to start at half past one and 6/7 minutes late starting. The the tailteann cup grand and then what a tea break for 10 minutes or more while they get organised for the sam Maguire draw. Is it too hard to hard a few more jars and the draw cylinders. They should be better than that. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 809 - 01/05/2025 00:02:51 2605890 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Alternative seeding, with provincial winners for this example just based on higher league placing and provincial runners up seeded based on league; Seed 1: Donegal, Meath, Kerry, Mayo. Seed 2: Galway, Dublin, Armagh, Monaghan. Seed 3: Roscommon, Tyrone, Derry, Cavan. Seed 4: Cork, Louth, Down, Clare. Alternative groups from the above seedings: Group 1: Donegal, Galway, Tyrone, Louth. Group 2: Kerry, Dublin, Roscommon, Cork. Group 3: Meath, Monaghan, Cavan, Down. Group 4: Mayo, Armagh, Derry, Clare. What you'd want then is a 4 way scramble for top 2 only from the groups going on to the quarter finals." That's a major improvement already. It beggars belief that any organisation would make Clare a 2 seed in today's draw, a side that hasn't had a sniff of top8 football, and make Derry (2024 NFL div1 champs) a four seed. Always a possibility then that it'll spit out horribly lop-sided unfair 2025 groups, and so it came to pass. I'd also seed Tyrone ahead of Monaghan and Roscommon, because they played div1 football in this championship year, which is typically much tougher fare than div2. Time enough making Tyrone a 3 seed in 2026, when they're a div2 side, for a season at least. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4116 - 01/05/2025 01:13:23 2605897 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Cork were always odds on to miss out based on the draw v Kerry. There's two problems with this draw. 1) the runners ups in Munster and Leinster were never likely to be div1 sides and therefore aren't worthy of seed2 billing. 2) promoted sides should not have higher seeding than relegated sides, instead league status 2025 should drive championship seeding for 2025, and 7th/8th div1 should be seeded ahead of 1st 2nd div2. Because there are 3or4 div1 sides in Ulster, no province should be drawn to play Ulster two years in a row. Of the top 10 sides in NFL 2025, 8 of them are from Ulster and Connacht, and yet someone deems these 'groupings' to be fair? Farce, not at all fair." Wise up lad. ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 482 - 01/05/2025 02:24:18 2605900 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "That's true." Yes genius. An organization that has got stronger and stronger over 140 years. Cop on. ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 482 - 01/05/2025 02:26:21 2605901 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Only the GAA could setup a round robin all Ireland series and devise seeding rules that could deliver FOUR div1 teams into one the group, and just ONE div1 side into two groups. This draw should be appealed and scrapped. One glance at it screams outrageous imbalance." Obviously you are not familiar with the competition. ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 482 - 01/05/2025 02:28:17 2605902 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "It's more farcical than luck of the draw actually. Clare are seeded one higher than Tyrone and Dublin, and 2 higher than Derry. Meath/Louth the same. Tyrone Dublin Derry 2025 are clearly superior to Clare Louth and Meath, and have no business carrying an inferior seeding into any CREDIBLE group draw. But that draw format with those silly seed2 rules is not credible, and therefore can deliver incredibly imbalanced results. This is a stage beyond 'group of death' which usually outputs from fairly credible seedings. This is more 'nuclear winter groups' emanating from seedings that are nothing short of daft." Derry and Dublin haven't been great this year. It's not Derry of 2 or 3 years ago or Dublin of 8 or 9 years ago but papers will hype them up on previous reputations. It's more a group of clickbait than a group of death. Yerselves, Donegal or Armagh will fancy their chances against Derry or Dublin. I'm hoping, probably against hope, that we'll win on Sunday. If we do confidence will rise that we could top that group. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7927 - 01/05/2025 03:37:12 2605903 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Alternative seeding, with provincial winners for this example just based on higher league placing and provincial runners up seeded based on league; Seed 1: Donegal, Meath, Kerry, Mayo. Seed 2: Galway, Dublin, Armagh, Monaghan. Seed 3: Roscommon, Tyrone, Derry, Cavan. Seed 4: Cork, Louth, Down, Clare. Alternative groups from the above seedings: Group 1: Donegal, Galway, Tyrone, Louth. Group 2: Kerry, Dublin, Roscommon, Cork. Group 3: Meath, Monaghan, Cavan, Down. Group 4: Mayo, Armagh, Derry, Clare. What you'd want then is a 4 way scramble for top 2 only from the groups going on to the quarter finals." To avoid waiting for Prov Champs to be known, why not have 1st seeds based on league: Pot 1 = Kerry, Mayo, Galway, Donegal. Connacht deserves to have both Finalists seeded 1. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3227 - 01/05/2025 03:50:18 2605904 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "It's more farcical than luck of the draw actually. Clare are seeded one higher than Tyrone and Dublin, and 2 higher than Derry. Meath/Louth the same. Tyrone Dublin Derry 2025 are clearly superior to Clare Louth and Meath, and have no business carrying an inferior seeding into any CREDIBLE group draw. But that draw format with those silly seed2 rules is not credible, and therefore can deliver incredibly imbalanced results. This is a stage beyond 'group of death' which usually outputs from fairly credible seedings. This is more 'nuclear winter groups' emanating from seedings that are nothing short of daft." Then we need to use league standings for seeding. It is a farce but shocks happen at provincial level so these scenarios were always likely to happen. Personally I've lost a bit of interest in the championship since restructuring, it's all over the place and too condensed. You'd miss half the games as they are all on together. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11547 - 01/05/2025 08:09:41 2605914 Link
Replying To yew_tree: "Then we need to use league standings for seeding. It is a farce but shocks happen at provincial level so these scenarios were always likely to happen. Personally I've lost a bit of interest in the championship since restructuring, it's all over the place and too condensed. You'd miss half the games as they are all on together." That's one part of it, but the other is that the Connacht winners will be paired again with the Ulster runner up. 3 years running. The Ulster final loser is guaranteed to be much much stronger than the Leinster and Munster loser every year. One easy solution would have been to rotate the provinces for the 1st and 2nd seeds. It would have been much fairer. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2300 - 01/05/2025 09:17:41 2605924 Link
Replying To yew_tree: "Fact is 3 out of the 4 teams go through so you can't have any excuse. If you can't win ONE game in your group you've no business progressing. Yes some teams have easier groups as usual but that's the luck of the draw." That's true. But the only thing is if you don't top the group and end up in the prelim quarter final, is it still the case that you'll find yourself in action three weekends on the trot? I haven't looked at the fixture calendar for 2025 so I'm not sure. But if that's still the case, a team could end up facing a fresh Kerry in the quarter final for example. Think that happened yourselves two years ago was it? Ye played Cork in the last group game Jun 18th, then beat Galway by a point Jun 25th. But then they had to play Dublin on the 2nd of July and got absolutley hockeyed. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9746 - 01/05/2025 09:40:18 2605933 Link
Based on the below facts, the draw is rigged so the Connacht champions get the toughest draw (always Ulster Rup) and the Munster Champions get the softest draw (Leinster Rup). This year is the first year that the Ulster champions didn't get a handy draw against the Munster Runner up. 2023 - seedings Mun 1, Lei 1, Con 1, Uls 1 Mun 2, Lei 2, Con 2, Uls 2 Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan Cork, Kildare, Donegal, Westmeath Draw Mun 1(Kerry), Lei 2 (Louth), Mayo (div 1), Cork (div 2) Con 1 (Galway), ULs 2 (Armagh), Tyrone (div 1), Westmeath(TC) Lei 1 (Dublin), Con 2 (Sligo), Roscommon (div 1), Kildare (div 2) Uls 1 (Derry), Mun 1 (Clare), Monaghan (div 1), Donegal (div 2) 2024 Seedings Lei 1, Mun 1, Con 1, Uls 1 Con 2, Uls 2, Lei 2, Mun 2 Derry, Tyrone, Roscommon, Monaghan Cavan, Cork, Meath, Westmeath 2024 Draw Con 1 (Galway), Uls 2 (Armagh), Derry (div 1), Westmeath (div 2) Lei 1 (Dublin), Con 2 (Mayo), Roscommon (div2), Cavan (div 2) ULs 1 (Donegal), Mun 2 (Clare), Tyrone (div 1), Cork (div 2) Mun 1 (Kerry), Lei 2 (Louth), Monaghan (div 2), Meath (TC) 2025 Seedings Mun 1, Con 1, Uls 1, Lei 1, Con 2, Uls 2, Lei 2, Mun 2 Dublin, Monaghan, Roscommon, Tyrone Derry, Cavan, Cork, Down 2025 Draw ULs 1, Con 2, Tyrone (div 2), Cavan (div 2) Mun 1, Lei 2, Roscommon (div 1), Cork (div 2) Lei 1, Mun 2, Monaghan (div 1), Down (TC) Con 1, Uls 2, Dublin (div 1), Derry (div 2) So in 3 years Connacht winners got Ulster Rup x3 (anyone for another round of Armagh v Galway), Ulster winners got Connacht Rup x1 and Munster Rup x2 Leinster winner got Munster Rup x1, and Connacht Rup x2 Munster winner got Leinster Rup x3, So not only do Kerry have a handy province (against a load of hurling counties), but they always get a handy group (v Leinster Rup - div 2 team). They lost the only tough group match they got so far (v div 1 Mayo). They way it has transpired this year - Monaghan have the best draw and dont have to travel far for any match. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1349 - 01/05/2025 10:11:14 2605941 Link
Replying To Lockjaw: "That's true. But the only thing is if you don't top the group and end up in the prelim quarter final, is it still the case that you'll find yourself in action three weekends on the trot? I haven't looked at the fixture calendar for 2025 so I'm not sure. But if that's still the case, a team could end up facing a fresh Kerry in the quarter final for example. Think that happened yourselves two years ago was it? Ye played Cork in the last group game Jun 18th, then beat Galway by a point Jun 25th. But then they had to play Dublin on the 2nd of July and got absolutley hockeyed." Yep, 3 weeks in a row if you win a prelim game. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2274 - 01/05/2025 10:44:15 2605956 Link
Going on form, the groups will look something like the below Group 1 Donegal Tyrone Mayo Cavan Group 2 Kerry Meath, Roscommon, Cork Group 3 Monaghan Louth, Down Clare Group 4 Galway Armagh Dublin Derry That would leave prelim qfinals as something like the below Armagh v Down Louth v Dublin Meath v Mayo Tyrone v Roscommon tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1349 - 01/05/2025 11:04:46 2605967 Link
Replying To WanPintWin: "That's one part of it, but the other is that the Connacht winners will be paired again with the Ulster runner up. 3 years running. The Ulster final loser is guaranteed to be much much stronger than the Leinster and Munster loser every year. One easy solution would have been to rotate the provinces for the 1st and 2nd seeds. It would have been much fairer." Yeah, two things need adjustment imo. All teams should carry their seeding into the allireland group draw based on the closing NFL tables from end of March. Last in div1 is 8th seed, first in div 2 is 9th seed etc. 1) Provincial champs get the 1 seedings for allireland groups, as applies currently. 2) Provincial runnerssup are rotated into groups, so that Munster/Leinster meet every 3 years, and not every year as is applying currently with 'luck of the draw'. In addition to this manual rotation, provincial runnersup would so be placed in groups based on their league seeding. So a Galway or Donegal would likely be places into a group as a second seed on current NFL standings, while a Clare or Louth or Meath would be placed in their groups as fourth seeds. 3) At that point, there's only 8 remaining balls to be drawn, and these teams should be drawn from seeded pots 2,3,4. Those seedings based entirely on closing NFL positions from earlier in the season. I think those tweaks will sort it, and ensure that yesterday's calamity is not repeated. Doubly important to implement something on these lines for next year, when there's only 8 qualifying out of the groups directly to quarter finals. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4116 - 01/05/2025 11:26:36 2605972 Link
Seeding is a farce, provincial runner ups should not be a seed 2 team - it should be Seed 1 for provincial winners and the rest based on league standings. We would get much more balance groups, and there would be an obvious reward for winning the provincials. Purely basing the provincial winners on current bookies odds, seeding would look like this if we did based on provincial winners as 1 seed, and the rest on league standings. The groups would be m Seed 1: Kerry, Galway, Donegal, Meath Seed 2: Mayo, Dublin, Armagh, Tyrone Seed 3: Derry, Monaghan, Roscommon, Cavan Seed 4 Cork, Louth, Down, Clare It's much easier for Clare to reach a Munster final than it is Monaghan or Cavan, but one gets rewarded as a 2 seed because they beat a division 4 team? Make it make sense. Cabbagepatch1667 (Meath) - Posts: 12 - 01/05/2025 11:34:57 2605978 Link
@That would leave prelim qfinals as something like the below Armagh v Down Louth v Dublin Meath v Mayo Tyrone v Roscommon tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1349 - 01/05/2025 That's the Dubs doing a "three strikes and they are in"? Isn't it hard enough to bounce them on a one-off day? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3227 - 01/05/2025 15:10:30 2606055 Link
@Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4116 - 01/05/2025 My AILC follows much of those principles. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3227 - 01/05/2025 15:14:21 2606057 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "Going on form, the groups will look something like the below Group 1 Donegal Tyrone Mayo Cavan Group 2 Kerry Meath, Roscommon, Cork Group 3 Monaghan Louth, Down Clare Group 4 Galway Armagh Dublin Derry That would leave prelim qfinals as something like the below Armagh v Down Louth v Dublin Meath v Mayo Tyrone v Roscommon" You are being very generous to your neighbours! Cork in better form than us at the moment. Are the prelims an open draw of 2nds v 3rds or are they pre determined by groups as in your example? Group 1 2nd place play Group 2 3rd etc? FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 71 - 01/05/2025 15:36:13 2606063 Link