National Forum

Football Provincial Championships 2025

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "It's hardly the aim of the game to save bad teams from big defeats??
If so then have graded Championships like at Club, Hurling, Camogie, Ladies football."
It shoukdn't be the aim to save bad teams from big defeats, it's up to the bad teams to work harder and improve. The new rules are the same for all teams. But it's hard for them to improve if they'll only be tested by teams at a similar bad level. The bigger mens teams have much bigger resources, though, than club or intercounty ladies team. Their resources will continue to grow with more TV, media exposure making them a better target for sponsors. The standard of football is getting wider between top and bottom as the bottom teams will play teams of a lower standard while the top teams are guaranteed games, league and championship against top teams. We need some sort of competition where lower division teams can be tested against a higher standard for a good amount of games, not just one or two provincial games. Easy to say but I have no clue what that could be. Maybe some games against college teams, B teams from stronger counties from October to January.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7896 - 14/04/2025 13:44:30    2601846

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It shoukdn't be the aim to save bad teams from big defeats, it's up to the bad teams to work harder and improve. The new rules are the same for all teams. But it's hard for them to improve if they'll only be tested by teams at a similar bad level. The bigger mens teams have much bigger resources, though, than club or intercounty ladies team. Their resources will continue to grow with more TV, media exposure making them a better target for sponsors. The standard of football is getting wider between top and bottom as the bottom teams will play teams of a lower standard while the top teams are guaranteed games, league and championship against top teams. We need some sort of competition where lower division teams can be tested against a higher standard for a good amount of games, not just one or two provincial games. Easy to say but I have no clue what that could be. Maybe some games against college teams, B teams from stronger counties from October to January."
The time of year for lower division teams to test themselves against higher division opponents is at the start of the year. Best of luck trying to get that through Congress!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8693 - 14/04/2025 17:55:59    2601900

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It shoukdn't be the aim to save bad teams from big defeats, it's up to the bad teams to work harder and improve. The new rules are the same for all teams. But it's hard for them to improve if they'll only be tested by teams at a similar bad level. The bigger mens teams have much bigger resources, though, than club or intercounty ladies team. Their resources will continue to grow with more TV, media exposure making them a better target for sponsors. The standard of football is getting wider between top and bottom as the bottom teams will play teams of a lower standard while the top teams are guaranteed games, league and championship against top teams. We need some sort of competition where lower division teams can be tested against a higher standard for a good amount of games, not just one or two provincial games. Easy to say but I have no clue what that could be. Maybe some games against college teams, B teams from stronger counties from October to January."
Yours is a pretty good post.

Levelling the playing field is about addressing all concerns in county's that have real concerns particularly those at the bottom of the pack, Dublin at their weakest is still too strong for the bottom half of Leinster counties and more than competitive with the rest. Dublin will win Leinster this year, does that mean other counties in Leinster have not improved on a pro rata basis.? Simple question.

Meath, Offaly and Kildare have made visual progress and are now back in div.2 to lose out on promotion by the narrowest of margins is not progress rather a glorious defeat.

Progress can only be achieved nationally by reinventing the championship and restructuring the NFL.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3156 - 14/04/2025 20:37:11    2601937

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The time of year for lower division teams to test themselves against higher division opponents is at the start of the year. Best of luck trying to get that through Congress!"
It'll never get past Congress because they're only interested in making strong counties stronger and weak counties weaker. As it is the weaker counties don't have the facilities, coaches, or player pools to pull from, that stronger counties do. Why should they have to test themselves against a higher standard at the start of the year? Counties will be concentrating on the league and the too counties thinking about seedings because, under this system, they're guaranteed to be in the All Ireland series. A misleading name for it because not all the counties can participate in it.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7896 - 15/04/2025 00:36:18    2601962

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It'll never get past Congress because they're only interested in making strong counties stronger and weak counties weaker. As it is the weaker counties don't have the facilities, coaches, or player pools to pull from, that stronger counties do. Why should they have to test themselves against a higher standard at the start of the year? Counties will be concentrating on the league and the too counties thinking about seedings because, under this system, they're guaranteed to be in the All Ireland series. A misleading name for it because not all the counties can participate in it."
Who are this "Congress"?
Is it made up of big Counties only?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2232 - 15/04/2025 09:38:30    2601984

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Who are this "Congress"?
Is it made up of big Counties only?"
Good question. I thought was just reps from every county. But it's 'representatives from every province, county board and sub-section of the Association'.


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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7896 - 15/04/2025 12:11:25    2602027

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At least two FRC members, while not part of the FRC remit, were in favour of flipping the season. Eamonn Fitzmaurice and Michael Murphy are both in favour of provincial championships first and then league. Hasn't gained traction though. Provincial councils are completely against it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8693 - 15/04/2025 13:14:51    2602040

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Replying To legendzxix:  "At least two FRC members, while not part of the FRC remit, were in favour of flipping the season. Eamonn Fitzmaurice and Michael Murphy are both in favour of provincial championships first and then league. Hasn't gained traction though. Provincial councils are completely against it."
If the season started in mid march or April instead it would make sense to have provincial games first. Better weather and attendance for Ulster and Connacht will still be decent

Then league and after all Ireland series but the All Ireland series couldn't be group stages into knockout. We cant go from league to groups to knockout.

The 2026 method is probably ok with top four in div 1 go into separate brackets of knock stage. Home advantage in opening round for provincial champions where they parade cup before match. With only 16 teams it would mean you'd only need to win 4 games to lift All Ireland but it would make it absolutely incredible drama and league would be elevated with prize of top seed.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 301 - 15/04/2025 22:43:15    2602145

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Replying To legendzxix:  "At least two FRC members, while not part of the FRC remit, were in favour of flipping the season. Eamonn Fitzmaurice and Michael Murphy are both in favour of provincial championships first and then league. Hasn't gained traction though. Provincial councils are completely against it."
Split the difference - less attractive Prelims/QFs early, hold the more appealing SFs/Finals (well, Ulster/Connacht) over to April/May?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3195 - 16/04/2025 19:12:32    2602306

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Replying To shaggykev:  "If the season started in mid march or April instead it would make sense to have provincial games first. Better weather and attendance for Ulster and Connacht will still be decent

Then league and after all Ireland series but the All Ireland series couldn't be group stages into knockout. We cant go from league to groups to knockout.

The 2026 method is probably ok with top four in div 1 go into separate brackets of knock stage. Home advantage in opening round for provincial champions where they parade cup before match. With only 16 teams it would mean you'd only need to win 4 games to lift All Ireland but it would make it absolutely incredible drama and league would be elevated with prize of top seed."
Hurling goes from league to groups to knockout. Seems to be working ok. Hurling has a weekend off after league finals. McDonagh counties have had at least two free weekends, other three.
Back on the topic of the "Football Provincial Championships 2025", Fermanagh v Down is low key enough. Down after last year's Tailteann success will want to push for making an Ulster final. Thought they might have retained Division 2 status but not to be.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8693 - 16/04/2025 21:12:17    2602325

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Hurling goes from league to groups to knockout. Seems to be working ok. Hurling has a weekend off after league finals. McDonagh counties have had at least two free weekends, other three.
Back on the topic of the "Football Provincial Championships 2025", Fermanagh v Down is low key enough. Down after last year's Tailteann success will want to push for making an Ulster final. Thought they might have retained Division 2 status but not to be."
Down were very unlucky to be relegated this year we competed well in every match and got relegated on 6 points due to head to head rule Louth stayed up.

It's crazy that Down haven't won Ulster since 1994. We had won 2 All Ireland's in 4 years and we were on a crest of a wave at that point. You couldn't have forseen the disappointment of the following three decades at then although 2010 was a missed opportunity to win another All Ireland.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1700 - 17/04/2025 11:27:42    2602389

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When Tyrone hosted Dublin in the 2019 All Ireland championship, both were already qualified for the All Ireland semi finals.
Cork v Kerry, Donegal v Monaghan and Galway v Roscommon aren't much different. All six are qualified for the All Ireland group stage. Counties who haven't won a provincial title in a while have the most to play for. Mainly up to them to bring an intensity. Cork v Kerry isn't generating much enthusiasm.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8693 - 18/04/2025 07:28:50    2602522

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Replying To legendzxix:  "When Tyrone hosted Dublin in the 2019 All Ireland championship, both were already qualified for the All Ireland semi finals.
Cork v Kerry, Donegal v Monaghan and Galway v Roscommon aren't much different. All six are qualified for the All Ireland group stage. Counties who haven't won a provincial title in a while have the most to play for. Mainly up to them to bring an intensity. Cork v Kerry isn't generating much enthusiasm."
Excactly.

Not forgetting Derry are there too and will end up in same position as Donegal and have nearly two months to prep for all Ireland.

So Donegal risk injury and wear and tear battling for hardest province to win 4 games to get the supposed benefit of top seed the same situation as Kerry beating mid table div 2 sides.

This new system has not addressed the biggest issue of championship. Unequal games and unequal quality of opposition.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 301 - 18/04/2025 10:12:08    2602537

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Replying To shaggykev:  "Excactly.

Not forgetting Derry are there too and will end up in same position as Donegal and have nearly two months to prep for all Ireland.

So Donegal risk injury and wear and tear battling for hardest province to win 4 games to get the supposed benefit of top seed the same situation as Kerry beating mid table div 2 sides.

This new system has not addressed the biggest issue of championship. Unequal games and unequal quality of opposition."
There is nothing stopping from Donegal from resting some of their key players in the Ulster S.F. It might be more beneficial to their All Ireland chances in the long run to miss out on an Ulster Final.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 95 - 18/04/2025 13:30:57    2602590

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Replying To shaggykev:  "Excactly.

Not forgetting Derry are there too and will end up in same position as Donegal and have nearly two months to prep for all Ireland.

So Donegal risk injury and wear and tear battling for hardest province to win 4 games to get the supposed benefit of top seed the same situation as Kerry beating mid table div 2 sides.

This new system has not addressed the biggest issue of championship. Unequal games and unequal quality of opposition."
Top 16, Bottom 16.
Award match pts for in-tier Prov KO games.
In your scenario, Ulster Champ, say Donegal gets 6-8 pts while Kerry gets 2 pts (Cork game).
The rest of the non-Prov 'league' match schedule would even out the competition.
What's wrong with it (my AILC format)?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3195 - 18/04/2025 15:13:52    2602611

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Replying To edu:  "There is nothing stopping from Donegal from resting some of their key players in the Ulster S.F. It might be more beneficial to their All Ireland chances in the long run to miss out on an Ulster Final."
Yes, but awful if Ulster loses integrity like the league.
A competition should encourage teams to play to their best.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3195 - 18/04/2025 15:16:16    2602612

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Replying To edu:  "There is nothing stopping from Donegal from resting some of their key players in the Ulster S.F. It might be more beneficial to their All Ireland chances in the long run to miss out on an Ulster Final."
That's true. But doesn't that just devalue the title even more. Same thing happened in the league.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 301 - 18/04/2025 17:45:40    2602631

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Replying To shaggykev:  "That's true. But doesn't that just devalue the title even more. Same thing happened in the league."
If Munster seeded the draw on the league - Kerry and Cork would be on opposite sides of the draw which would be fair. Cork flirted with relegation from Division 2. Clare nearly got promoted from Division 3. In that scenario Kerry and Clare would be on opposite sides of the draw as they are.
If Ulster seeded the draw on the league - Fermanagh and Antrim would have been paired in the preliminary round. Donegal, Armagh, Monaghan and Tyrone would be kept apart until the semi finals.
Leinster for all the criticism has the more intriguing half of a draw. Kildare (16) knocked out Westmeath (18). Louth (14) will battle it out against Kildare (16) for a place in the All Ireland series.
Donegal v Monaghan and Tyrone v Armagh would be more interesting as semi finals if the winners secured All Ireland qualification.
Down v Fermanagh and Clare v Tipperary low key games going into this weekend. Down have their deserved qualification from the Tailteann. Hard to see Tipperary upsetting the odds. If it is a Kerry v Clare Munster final it is becoming something of a traditional final but not one enthusing big support.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8693 - 18/04/2025 22:02:36    2602667

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