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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "It's just why are we always behind. It's always surviving, never thriving at any level. Cus it's obviously not working.
Also Offaly I've said if they're going to do anything it'll have to be in next 2/3 years cus they have a decent cohort of lads ahead of that all Ireland u20 winning team. The likes of Brian Duignan, Kiely, Oisin Kelly etc but once those older better lads come to an end and the u20 lads are the older lads they've nothing coming behind them. My point is they have their all Ireland and Leinster titles at minor and u20 level, they've actually won stuff. They're giving themselves a chance at doing something a senior level. How ever hard it is to do anything at senior with successful underage teams it's a whole lot harder do without any success. Our underage and senior teams mirror each other…just middle of the road with the odd bad low of a shock loss and the odd against the odds back to wall win. Just never being a big player in the end of the year.
Here's hoping we do win something at any level or at least go the later ends. Feels like we have the same conversation every year about the same things." I get what you are saying about us being a middle of the road county. But that's what we are. And barring the 19 teens in Football, and the 1950s and 1960s in Hurling, that's all we ever were. It's not as if where we are now is a fall from our mean. We are currently at the level where we usually always were. A bit like every other Hurling county outside of the big 3, and nearly all the Football counties.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 12:48:18
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Have a few points to make although it seems like we have the same debate every week/month/year
1. It takes time for work at under-age to best fruit at even Minor/U20 level, never mind Senior level. Maybe you start with 13yos/14yos but that'd mean it'd take 3/4 years to impact the Minor team, 6/7 years to impact the U20 team, and likely 9/10 years to impact the Senior team. If you assume starting at 13/14 is too late and you need to start earlier, then the time between the start of the programme and it bearing fruit at Senior level could be close to 15 years. This isn't saying that we're doing is working right now, it's just that I think people forget how long these programmes take and become too impatient
2. IMO, hurlers are in their prime around 24-27 so we're talking about U20 teams from 4-7 years ago. Cork lost an AI Final in 2019 and then won the next two; those players are now around 24-26 and are the favourites for the AI at this stage. Limerick won two U21 AIs in 2015 and 2017 so those teams would've been around that 24-27 age bracket between 2018 and 2024; Limerick won 5 out of 7 AIs in that timeframe. We won three Leinsters in a row at U21 level between 2013 and 2015 so those players would've been 24-27 between 2016 and 2021; we reached a Leinster Final in 2017, won a Leinster in 2019, and were then inches away from making the LF in 2018 and 2021. We had two very good U20 teams in 2022 and 2023 so these players will be in that 24-27 age bracket between 2026 and 2030; that's the window for those players to perform so it's not the end of the world if they're not all ready to start right now (Although they need to be up to it in the next year or two)
3. A strong hurling culture is the best way to develop Wexford hurling but while I think there is potentially huge scope for us growing (We're one of maybe three counties who could bring 40k fans to Croker for an AISF), a lot of these bandwagoners and won't be out with their children every day hurling. If a child spent their lunchtimes at school and then evenings always with the hurl in their hand, they would come on leaps and bounds. The County Board cannot enforce this, only parents can but what the CB can control is coaches at school level. Linking back to the first point, even if this is done correctly, it will take a lot of time to bear fruit
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 477 - 08/05/2025 12:56:11
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Wexford should allow minors to play adult hurling. Even if just for the league games in the Spring and early summer. You learn most in any sport playing a level above yourself, getting hit by bigger more physical players, meeting the wily old fox who uses years of experience to out smart a young speedster. I would say only allow play adult hurling if does not clash with minor match, so if a minor match is on then they play it.
I see the minors in our club and most of them are doing some gym work, many are physically more than able to play adult hurling. Players and parents know themselves when a minor is ready and even if it is junior D hurling it will help develop players to be men and shows them the battling quality needed for adult hurling.
Let him at it for me. It serves Kilkenny well. You can always take them out if they are not up to it.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1336 - 08/05/2025 13:14:06
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Replying To Viking66: "Disagree. Any player who shines for their club at u14, u16, u18, u19 or u20, even adult, can get onto a county panel. Jones and Cassin started for our u20s this year, but were not county minors. Shane Reck and Eoin Ryan didn't hurl county minor either AFAIK." No but they were dev squad players so were in the set up
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 357 - 08/05/2025 13:47:05
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Have a few points to make although it seems like we have the same debate every week/month/year
1. It takes time for work at under-age to best fruit at even Minor/U20 level, never mind Senior level. Maybe you start with 13yos/14yos but that'd mean it'd take 3/4 years to impact the Minor team, 6/7 years to impact the U20 team, and likely 9/10 years to impact the Senior team. If you assume starting at 13/14 is too late and you need to start earlier, then the time between the start of the programme and it bearing fruit at Senior level could be close to 15 years. This isn't saying that we're doing is working right now, it's just that I think people forget how long these programmes take and become too impatient
2. IMO, hurlers are in their prime around 24-27 so we're talking about U20 teams from 4-7 years ago. Cork lost an AI Final in 2019 and then won the next two; those players are now around 24-26 and are the favourites for the AI at this stage. Limerick won two U21 AIs in 2015 and 2017 so those teams would've been around that 24-27 age bracket between 2018 and 2024; Limerick won 5 out of 7 AIs in that timeframe. We won three Leinsters in a row at U21 level between 2013 and 2015 so those players would've been 24-27 between 2016 and 2021; we reached a Leinster Final in 2017, won a Leinster in 2019, and were then inches away from making the LF in 2018 and 2021. We had two very good U20 teams in 2022 and 2023 so these players will be in that 24-27 age bracket between 2026 and 2030; that's the window for those players to perform so it's not the end of the world if they're not all ready to start right now (Although they need to be up to it in the next year or two)
3. A strong hurling culture is the best way to develop Wexford hurling but while I think there is potentially huge scope for us growing (We're one of maybe three counties who could bring 40k fans to Croker for an AISF), a lot of these bandwagoners and won't be out with their children every day hurling. If a child spent their lunchtimes at school and then evenings always with the hurl in their hand, they would come on leaps and bounds. The County Board cannot enforce this, only parents can but what the CB can control is coaches at school level. Linking back to the first point, even if this is done correctly, it will take a lot of time to bear fruit" Wexford coaches are more involved with school teams the last few years in fairness. But as you say the fruits of this work will take time to ripen.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 13:56:07
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Are we losing ground everywhere with all the state of the art facilities are clubs counties losing volunteers to the maintenance of these facilities instead of coaching and team involvement .
Then the effort to fundraiser.
Sometimes I wonder would there be more hunger to succeed if we had a field and a dressing room only .
No floodlights no astro pitches l,imited gyms .clubhouse big room only .
Woold we gave more volunteers available to do the important thing like coaching and player development . Now we spend so much time on our facilities , fundraising for club znd county too . We ve lost sight of the basics and what drives anyone on
HUNGER .
WE HAVE GONE SOFT
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 357 - 08/05/2025 13:57:12
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Replying To MyOhMi: "Bernard Brogan made an interesting Twitter post this morning with regards to the demise of Dublin underage football - he is solely blaming it on the decrease of participation levels in secondary schools over the last 8/10 years.
I am reading Richie Hogans book at the moment - though i take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt, one thing he does say is when he went to St. Kieren's that there was an expectation for players to reach a certain level and to achieve certain wins. I doubt that expectation exists in any PP school in Wexford currently." Kieran's aren't really the benchmark we should be using though as they are artificially strong, Kilkenny CBS would be a much fairer comparison (Although our schools teams have not been out-performing them consistently)
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 477 - 08/05/2025 15:07:20
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Replying To Viking66: "I get what you are saying about us being a middle of the road county. But that's what we are. And barring the 19 teens in Football, and the 1950s and 1960s in Hurling, that's all we ever were. It's not as if where we are now is a fall from our mean. We are currently at the level where we usually always were. A bit like every other Hurling county outside of the big 3, and nearly all the Football counties." Have to agree with you viking very well put you would swear reading some posters that we were this hurling power that all of a sudden we no longer are we are where we always have been pasionate and hopeful every year but isnt that what makes us special.
Tiger1 (Wexford) - Posts: 339 - 08/05/2025 15:26:04
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Replying To Tiger1: "Have to agree with you viking very well put you would swear reading some posters that we were this hurling power that all of a sudden we no longer are we are where we always have been pasionate and hopeful every year but isnt that what makes us special." I wonder did anyone ever consider that we don't have enough kids playing the game. I couldn't find any recent reports but the number of registered youth teams would put us at the bottom of the pile and as we like to point out most of those are players who play both. Everyone is focused on why we don't have players at senior or U20 level, yet nobody sees the fact that there is effectively only one club in Hurling in Wexford/Enniscorth/Gorey and really none in New Ross and before the excuses come out for Wexford town and the surrounding clubs - there is still a lot of people in the town. Whether its Football or Hurling the biggest we need more playing numbers and to keep them playing. I have seen suggestions on here about whats needed that would in fact be the opposite to what is needed but anyway lets look for the quick fix in Wexford to take us to the top where we always were!
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1959 - 08/05/2025 16:13:41
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Replying To Formertownie: "Are we losing ground everywhere with all the state of the art facilities are clubs counties losing volunteers to the maintenance of these facilities instead of coaching and team involvement .
Then the effort to fundraiser.
Sometimes I wonder would there be more hunger to succeed if we had a field and a dressing room only .
No floodlights no astro pitches l,imited gyms .clubhouse big room only .
Woold we gave more volunteers available to do the important thing like coaching and player development . Now we spend so much time on our facilities , fundraising for club znd county too . We ve lost sight of the basics and what drives anyone on
HUNGER .
WE HAVE GONE SOFT" I have made that point to lads at the top table, both club and county. We have great facilities, now is the time to devote more funds and effort to the playing side. I know coaches who have taken county teams and made to feel bad for looking for their diesel to be covered. Problem there is I know lads at the top table at Board level who put many hundreds, even thousands, of euro out of their own pockets into attending everything they have to attend, as well as volunteering their time for nothing to do this. From talking to 2 previous county chairmen this involves around 40 hours a week between travelling, phonecalls and attending functions, meetings, and events, plus a sizeable amount of their own money to pay for that "privilege".
Then you get clowns on social media complaining about team managements and the county board. Couldn't make it up.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 16:41:22
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Kieran's aren't really the benchmark we should be using though as they are artificially strong, Kilkenny CBS would be a much fairer comparison (Although our schools teams have not been out-performing them consistently)" Kilkenny CBS share the same cachement area as Kierans. Between them around 30 clubs. No school in Wexford has anything like this.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 16:43:10
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Replying To zinny: "I wonder did anyone ever consider that we don't have enough kids playing the game. I couldn't find any recent reports but the number of registered youth teams would put us at the bottom of the pile and as we like to point out most of those are players who play both. Everyone is focused on why we don't have players at senior or U20 level, yet nobody sees the fact that there is effectively only one club in Hurling in Wexford/Enniscorth/Gorey and really none in New Ross and before the excuses come out for Wexford town and the surrounding clubs - there is still a lot of people in the town. Whether its Football or Hurling the biggest we need more playing numbers and to keep them playing. I have seen suggestions on here about whats needed that would in fact be the opposite to what is needed but anyway lets look for the quick fix in Wexford to take us to the top where we always were!" We are in the same bracket as Laois, Kildare, Meath etc as regards playing numbers.
So too are Clare, Waterford and Limerick though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 16:45:26
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Replying To Viking66: "Kilkenny CBS share the same cachement area as Kierans. Between them around 30 clubs. No school in Wexford has anything like this." Yes but what Kieran's get in from outside their catchment era is a big reason why they seem to win Leinster pretty much every year
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 477 - 08/05/2025 17:30:19
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Yes but what Kieran's get in from outside their catchment era is a big reason why they seem to win Leinster pretty much every year" Of course. They had a lad starting from MLR in Carlow this year. Nicky Rackard went there sure!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 08/05/2025 20:42:01
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Well lads Jippo is named to start instead of Cian Molloy.
The only change in terns of replacements on starting 15. Jack o and Mac named on bench. Surely one or both starts
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 382 - 08/05/2025 21:17:14
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Replying To WEXILE: "Well lads Jippo is named to start instead of Cian Molloy.
The only change in terns of replacements on starting 15. Jack o and Mac named on bench. Surely one or both starts" I would expect Jacko in for McGuckin and Lawlor to midfield
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 575 - 08/05/2025 22:58:47
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Replying To WEXILE: "Well lads Jippo is named to start instead of Cian Molloy.
The only change in terns of replacements on starting 15. Jack o and Mac named on bench. Surely one or both starts" I'd of had Patsy starting ahead of a few there that are starting tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15673 - 09/05/2025 06:10:40
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Replying To WEXILE: "Well lads Jippo is named to start instead of Cian Molloy.
The only change in terns of replacements on starting 15. Jack o and Mac named on bench. Surely one or both starts" After feeling fairly low about the whole thing I must say listening to Richie Kehoe has me full of beans again
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3567 - 09/05/2025 06:28:29
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Surely Jacko will start. He really should be a nailed on half forward. We need his physicality big time.
I can see Richie at midfield and Charlie on the bench. Also will Mac make an appearance at some stage? Great that Jippo is back. Let's hope he will last the distance and provide stability in our full back line. I wonder are we injury free or are there
Fresh concerns that we don't know about?
Tough for Molloy but he was the obvious player to give way for jippo to come back in.
Keeping 15 on the field is essential. We simply can't afford to have someone sidelined.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 449 - 09/05/2025 08:18:41
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Would personally have had Jippo starting instead of McGuckian rather than Molloy and Jacko starting ahead of Richie Lawlor
Could still bring in Jacko for McGuckian and move Richie to either midfield or wing-back, Keith isn't really the type to name dummy teams/make late changes though
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 477 - 09/05/2025 08:35:02
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