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Experimental Railway Cup

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Replying To Dualstar22:  "In the videos posted on these new changes Jim Gavin comments on more than one occasion that the changes are necessary because the rulebook is not being applied, the initial throw up, dissent, tactical fouling etc. So we change the game because the officials don't apply the rulebook and these same referees are now going to police the new game! Bonkers stuff."
Crazy stuff to change rules because the current ones aren't being enforced.
What makes Jim think these non performing Officials will enforce new Rules?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1872 - 10/10/2024 10:34:37    2574017

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Crazy stuff to change rules because the current ones aren't being enforced.
What makes Jim think these non performing Officials will enforce new Rules?"
Anyone who swallows that **** is easily fooled… They just don't want to admit that football is in a dire state so say silly stuff about rules not being enforced… Gavin should grow a pair and just say it as it is instead of hanging the referees out to dry…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2900 - 10/10/2024 13:21:28    2574043

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I'm old enough to remember when the old Railway Cup meant something to every player in the land. It was an honour to be selected on it - even as a sub. I think the All Star Awards were the death knell for it. I remember with neighbours, heading to the only house with a tv to watch them. I think that unless it is restored to its former glory, ie, the best players in each province making themselves available for selection, the proposed format will just end up another Mickey Mouse venture and fall flat."
How right. In a county like Waterford you judged a football player greatness by saying he played for Munster and there were lots of them. In hurling you knew Joe Henry and others were great by constantly playing for their province. Not anymore.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2859 - 10/10/2024 14:19:00    2574049

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Replying To Canuck:  "How right. In a county like Waterford you judged a football player greatness by saying he played for Munster and there were lots of them. In hurling you knew Joe Henry and others were great by constantly playing for their province. Not anymore."
It's only a Rules trial series of Chalkenge games.
The old glorious Railway Cup is now with 21 aside, point posts, sideline throw ins, Bishop throwing in the ball etc in the GAA scrap yard.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1872 - 10/10/2024 15:23:42    2574061

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Are the 7 core rules changes that complicated?
1. 1v1 throw-in to start the game
2. 40 metre scoring arc and new scoring system
3. Kick-outs from the 20 having to go beyond the 40 arc.
4. 'Solo and Go'
5. Advanced mark changes for kicks outside the 45 fielded inside the 20, and an advantage being allowed which should create goal opportunities.
6. Limits on passing to the goalkeeper. Player and keeper must both be on the large rectangle, or the keeper has advanced beyond the 65 yard line.
7. 3/3 Up/Back. Supposedly this might change to a new halfway line. By that extension, possibly the passing to the keeper in point 6 might also apply when the keeper advances beyond halfway.

1, 2, 3 and 4 seem very straightforward. 5 seems an improvement on the current advance mark and should be a smooth change.
6. New but should be very manageable.
7. Again a new one. A bit tricky for one official but the feedback is that it is generally self policed. Players won't be long drawing refs attention to players straying out of bounds."
6 outfield players inside both 65s at all times?

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 301 - 10/10/2024 16:01:57    2574074

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All of the major changes make a lot of sense.

I think the 3 up rule would make a very positive difference however I worry about the ability of the officials to enforce it. However at I/C level or senior club games, with 7 officials at each game this should not be a problem. when you go down the levels and you only have a ref and everyone else is from the competing clubs it might be tough to officiate

Changes to the mark are a no brainer. Even if some would prefer the mark to go altogether, this version is a definite improvement.

Hooter system works brilliantly in girls game. no brainer.

Disappearing foam has to come in. It is becoming ridiculous how players are running in, narrowing the angle when taking free's. Although I can see opposition to this on the basis that it is used in soccer ..... hard to swallow for some!

Solo and go - no issue. Straight forward to implement.

Kick outs look to be an improvement. Will be interested to see how they work in trial games.

2 points outside the arc - very interesting. Will it bring entice defenders out of the defensive structure. Might also see the return of good kickers to the teams.

I haven't seen the full list of changes but i would like to see some of the discipline issues addressed. i.e. yellow card/black card. Drag downs being a black but drag backs are a yellow even though both are cynical. Tidy this area up a bit.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1885 - 10/10/2024 16:09:49    2574077

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Was just reading all the 7 new rules the committee want to bring in firstly it's way 2 many changes God help referees if they bring them all in people might think football is bad now wait until all these rules come in football started getting bad because of all the rules I doubt there any other sport in the world amateur or professional with so many rules and changes format every few years get rid of mark completely it's a stupid rule now they suggest 1v 1 for thrown in they said 2 many fouls and bunching at thrown in ,,, in. Hurling there be at least 12 by team sliotar hits the ground in rooks ,, giving 2 points for kicking out side 40 metre arc stupid stuff there be more lines on the field than M 50 this committee has lost the run of themselves give it 2 years there be no ref to try implement these changes and no doubt more will come I doubt any young lad playing now will want play in goal all they be doing is kicking ball out that's it how underage keeper supposed kick ball outside 45 meters it be more in there line to change minor back to under 18 what most if not all clubs and county want that be a start and maybe even push all Ireland back 3-4 weeks and stop playing majority of county matches between jan - and end March

Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 933 - 10/10/2024 16:28:10    2574081

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "It's only a Rules trial series of Chalkenge games.
The old glorious Railway Cup is now with 21 aside, point posts, sideline throw ins, Bishop throwing in the ball etc in the GAA scrap yard."
With all these proposed new rules and ridiculous scoring areas you never know….the Bishop might be reinstated throwing the ball in…..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2900 - 10/10/2024 17:11:04    2574090

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "It's only a Rules trial series of Chalkenge games.
The old glorious Railway Cup is now with 21 aside, point posts, sideline throw ins, Bishop throwing in the ball etc in the GAA scrap yard."
If they really want to revive some form of provincial competition link it in some form to the useless, unfair All-Star system that only recognizes players who get to the finals. Maybe the All-Star has to be first recognized by his province first or some connection other than moving the deck chairs around. We will soon see a goalie named at full forward to get him on the All-Star team.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2859 - 10/10/2024 22:50:16    2574121

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Any word on the panels for the teams yet?

Edd,South(EU) (Monaghan) - Posts: 59 - 11/10/2024 07:31:54    2574130

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Replying To Canuck:  "If they really want to revive some form of provincial competition link it in some form to the useless, unfair All-Star system that only recognizes players who get to the finals. Maybe the All-Star has to be first recognized by his province first or some connection other than moving the deck chairs around. We will soon see a goalie named at full forward to get him on the All-Star team."
Agree totally. I don't know any body who could name a handful of "All Stars" from say 3 yrs ago. They are totally discredited and unfair as yoi say and are probably only relevant or appreciated by the players who receive them. It doesn't make a lot of difference to a county such as ours as we rarely feature anyway. When we had a player who should have got one, he was passed over in favour of a returned Aussie rules player ( for 1 season) who wanted to win an All Ireland because his late father had won one and it was the only space in his bristling medal and trophy array. He got his medal but he was more a bit player than an influential one - unless you call decommissioning an opposing player who posed a threat to his ambition. The hacks bought into his "dream" and handed him an Allstar - just to round off his collection. That finished any interest I might ever have had with that setup.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1210 - 11/10/2024 08:55:49    2574135

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Was just reading all the 7 new rules the committee want to bring in firstly it's way 2 many changes God help referees if they bring them all in people might think football is bad now wait until all these rules come in football started getting bad because of all the rules I doubt there any other sport in the world amateur or professional with so many rules and changes format every few years get rid of mark completely it's a stupid rule now they suggest 1v 1 for thrown in they said 2 many fouls and bunching at thrown in ,,, in. Hurling there be at least 12 by team sliotar hits the ground in rooks ,, giving 2 points for kicking out side 40 metre arc stupid stuff there be more lines on the field than M 50 this committee has lost the run of themselves give it 2 years there be no ref to try implement these changes and no doubt more will come I doubt any young lad playing now will want play in goal all they be doing is kicking ball out that's it how underage keeper supposed kick ball outside 45 meters it be more in there line to change minor back to under 18 what most if not all clubs and county want that be a start and maybe even push all Ireland back 3-4 weeks and stop playing majority of county matches between jan - and end March"
the only rule that should cause issues for the officials is the 3 up rule. i can see this being really tricky.

the other 6 should not be any issue for the ref

one v one throw in ......i'm sure they can count to 1!
kick out going 40m
no back pass to keeper
2 point scoring arc
solo and go..... very straight forward
mark .....new rule definitely better than old rule although getting rid of it might be best option


some of the other tweaks (not the 7 major ones) - foam to mark where frees are taken from, only captain taking to ref, 21 yard free for abuse etc should make things easier.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1885 - 11/10/2024 10:56:04    2574165

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Replying To Mayonman:  "the only rule that should cause issues for the officials is the 3 up rule. i can see this being really tricky.

the other 6 should not be any issue for the ref

one v one throw in ......i'm sure they can count to 1!
kick out going 40m
no back pass to keeper
2 point scoring arc
solo and go..... very straight forward
mark .....new rule definitely better than old rule although getting rid of it might be best option


some of the other tweaks (not the 7 major ones) - foam to mark where frees are taken from, only captain taking to ref, 21 yard free for abuse etc should make things easier."
2 point scoring arc on a wet day on a poorly lined club pitch.......
Team 2 points down score a point ....was it inside or outside?
Where is not very fit middle aged ref?
Could he see the line at all?
Are other officials neutral?
Had both teams 3 up and 3 back ?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1872 - 11/10/2024 11:56:30    2574177

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Replying To Canuck:  "If they really want to revive some form of provincial competition link it in some form to the useless, unfair All-Star system that only recognizes players who get to the finals. Maybe the All-Star has to be first recognized by his province first or some connection other than moving the deck chairs around. We will soon see a goalie named at full forward to get him on the All-Star team."
The All-Star awards were originally devised to recognise outstanding individual players. About 10-15 years ago, the award was turned into a team award because a significant part of the criteria is based upon your team playing in an All Ireland final which moves it from being an individual award to a team award. This change in criteria eliminates 90pc of the playing population regardless of individual talent. To compound the problem, they began awarding players awards for different positions i.e. a midfielder given a full forward award. I wouldn't know who received an award last year as I've no interest in seeing the awards being shared amongst the same counties year after year. If the GAA dedicated some time to thinking about the awards, they'd revert back to the original concept and give the awards to the best player in a specific position based upon their individual brilliance.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1999 - 11/10/2024 12:00:37    2574178

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The All-Star awards were originally devised to recognise outstanding individual players. About 10-15 years ago, the award was turned into a team award because a significant part of the criteria is based upon your team playing in an All Ireland final which moves it from being an individual award to a team award. This change in criteria eliminates 90pc of the playing population regardless of individual talent. To compound the problem, they began awarding players awards for different positions i.e. a midfielder given a full forward award. I wouldn't know who received an award last year as I've no interest in seeing the awards being shared amongst the same counties year after year. If the GAA dedicated some time to thinking about the awards, they'd revert back to the original concept and give the awards to the best player in a specific position based upon their individual brilliance."
Originally the League winners had at least one.

It really became a joke when Brian Howard one in the half back line without even being nominated there.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1463 - 11/10/2024 12:30:59    2574183

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "2 point scoring arc on a wet day on a poorly lined club pitch.......
Team 2 points down score a point ....was it inside or outside?
Where is not very fit middle aged ref?
Could he see the line at all?
Are other officials neutral?
Had both teams 3 up and 3 back ?"
This would be my thoughts too, just making it harder for the ref

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2066 - 11/10/2024 13:25:10    2574190

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Leave the game alone { except for getting rid of Mark and black card} and get county refs and officials to use the same rule book. Every game is different and teams are scoring as much now as 20/ 30 years ago. Shaving foam to stop cheating while taking frees is a big yes, yes.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2135 - 11/10/2024 13:52:38    2574194

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Let them try these new rules first and judge them then. Some sound a bit daft, some hard to understand, some sound hard to referee, some sound great in theory. Will need more consistent refereeing with inputs from other officials and hopefully let the games flow a bit more. We won't know until we see them in practice in games where the results matter.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7599 - 11/10/2024 13:57:16    2574197

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "2 point scoring arc on a wet day on a poorly lined club pitch.......
Team 2 points down score a point ....was it inside or outside?
Where is not very fit middle aged ref?
Could he see the line at all?
Are other officials neutral?
Had both teams 3 up and 3 back ?"
Also my thoughts all along about these proposals.

There are many of them which I just don't see as workable on a club pitch with faint lines and a referee who's not superhuman fit.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2535 - 11/10/2024 13:59:28    2574198

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Was just reading all the 7 new rules the committee want to bring in firstly it's way 2 many changes God help referees if they bring them all in people might think football is bad now wait until all these rules come in football started getting bad because of all the rules I doubt there any other sport in the world amateur or professional with so many rules and changes format every few years get rid of mark completely it's a stupid rule now they suggest 1v 1 for thrown in they said 2 many fouls and bunching at thrown in ,,, in. Hurling there be at least 12 by team sliotar hits the ground in rooks ,, giving 2 points for kicking out side 40 metre arc stupid stuff there be more lines on the field than M 50 this committee has lost the run of themselves give it 2 years there be no ref to try implement these changes and no doubt more will come I doubt any young lad playing now will want play in goal all they be doing is kicking ball out that's it how underage keeper supposed kick ball outside 45 meters it be more in there line to change minor back to under 18 what most if not all clubs and county want that be a start and maybe even push all Ireland back 3-4 weeks and stop playing majority of county matches between jan - and end March"
Time will tell if these rules will help gaelic football become an enjoyable spectator sport or not. I think one of the primary difficulties the GAA are grappling with is - how to curb the influence of the coaches who are paid significant sums of money to convert teams into winning or at least a competitive team(s). I think the theory is this; if a team can make themselves hard to beat by packing their defence then the team will ultimately become more successful. Not sure if results back up this theory or not. I've watched some club games and there isn't a problem with the rules as the game is played in a manner that is enjoyable to watch. Some people would like to see more contact in the games; contact between players appear to be minimised in recent years. This may be to reduce injury but it does remove an important ingredient of the game for some spectators. I think there is a case for one set of rules for the intercounty games and a different set of rules for the club games but I can understand why the GAA would be reluctant to do this as it is froth with complexity for officials and players alike.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1999 - 11/10/2024 14:05:35    2574200

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