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Wexford Club Hurling Championship.

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Replying To lefty:  "i dont think he mentions football at all in his proposal,"
The vast majority of clubs in Ireland already play Football though. But I agree every club should field an underage Football team also in the same agegroups. Most do already though, including most clubs in Kilkenny, which isn't the case for hurling in most counties.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 12/11/2024 21:55:09    2579430

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Replying To WEX98:  "Offical GAA allow 18 year olds play adult.
Example Sean Rowley was one of Oylegates best player this year and would have been a big help in the 2023 county final if he was eligible to play."
He would but you had other issues on the day. And some of Goreys inconsistent players had good games that day also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 12/11/2024 22:35:54    2579436

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Are the Gaa part of the problem regarding this rule..in a lot of counties minor club is under 18 and then inter county is under 17,I've managed to get this mixed up in my own club..in years gone by once a player was 18 he played adult hurling..another problem is college hurling in secondary school is 18 and a half..if croke park said all minor at club level was under 17 it would solve a lot of problems besides leaving it to all individual counties to decide what they want to do..it was so much easier when everyone knew minor was under 18..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2372 - 12/11/2024 22:36:53    2579437

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Replying To camánouttathat:  "I know times are different from when I played when you could play adult once you turned 16 but I didn't see any issue with it then. Got thrown straight into Junior B where you had to man up fairly quickly but also the older players protected you too. One incident where I got a late slap across my arm after I hit the ball and before I could turn around to see who hit me one of the older lads on our team had floored the other lad and was standing over him shouting "he's only a chap". Only downside could see would be the amount of games they might have to play but other counties can make it work why can't we? Case in point Adam Screeney club and county u21 and senior at 18."
Screeneys game time and training got carefully managed by his managers though. And he's not an ordinary 18 year old hurler to start with.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 12/11/2024 22:38:22    2579438

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Replying To camánouttathat:  "I know times are different from when I played when you could play adult once you turned 16 but I didn't see any issue with it then. Got thrown straight into Junior B where you had to man up fairly quickly but also the older players protected you too. One incident where I got a late slap across my arm after I hit the ball and before I could turn around to see who hit me one of the older lads on our team had floored the other lad and was standing over him shouting "he's only a chap". Only downside could see would be the amount of games they might have to play but other counties can make it work why can't we? Case in point Adam Screeney club and county u21 and senior at 18."
With all the talk last year about Adam Screeney and Offaly, seems to have escaped a lot of people's notice that he was able to play adult because their minor was at U17 and he was already out of it. He was never actually eligible for adult & minor at the same time.

Also seems to have escaped people's attention that Offaly changed back to minor being at U18 this year, with minor players not allowed to play adult, for all the same reasons we have the same situation here.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 12/11/2024 22:42:52    2579440

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Replying To Onfor15:  "1. Terrible motion. Either a player at that age can play adult or he cant. It shouldn't be a particular grade of adult. What if for example a club doesnt have a team from junior down? The 18 year olds in that club couldn't play adult but the under 18's in the club next door could. Ridiculous


3. Awful motion which has been brought forward numerous times before and has been heavily defeated each time. How could the Sarsfields have an under 10 hurling team? They are a football only club. Or how could a club field a team if they had only 2 players for example"
With regard to "the Griffin motion", it was brought forward once before. And while I can't find the exact result, I think it got something like 40% support, so not exactly "heavily" defeated.

Your other points on it show that you haven't actually read the motion. It provides for a couple of exceptions, including the two that you ask about:

1. If a football-only club can show that children of that age in their area are already afforded the opportunity to play hurling with a different club. So Sarsfields, for example, could say that their young members can play hurling with either the Harriers or Clonard.

2. If a club can show by sheer demographics that it does not have the numbers to comply.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 12/11/2024 22:52:42    2579441

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "Are the Gaa part of the problem regarding this rule..in a lot of counties minor club is under 18 and then inter county is under 17,I've managed to get this mixed up in my own club..in years gone by once a player was 18 he played adult hurling..another problem is college hurling in secondary school is 18 and a half..if croke park said all minor at club level was under 17 it would solve a lot of problems besides leaving it to all individual counties to decide what they want to do..it was so much easier when everyone knew minor was under 18.."
I think intercounty should go back to u18 minor, and u20 back to u21.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 13/11/2024 09:26:02    2579455

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think intercounty should go back to u18 minor, and u20 back to u21."
Whether it's U17 and U20, or U18 and U21, I do agree that both club and county should be the same.

I think CTGAA10 is correct that the GAA centrally is part of the problem here. When they were asked to rule one way or the other about the age limits for clubs, they basically fudged the issue by leaving it up to each county to decide themselves. They recommend that the age grades be U17, U15, etc., but they don't make it mandatory.

And that brings a real "no win" situation here. When we had it at U17, the complaints were that too many lads just turning 18 that year weren't yet good enough or strong enough for adult competition, so they were missing out altogether.

Go back to U18 and the complaints become that the minority who are good enough and strong enough have to miss out on the adult competition "that they'd be well able for".

If we changed things again to allow second year U18s to play adult, there'd be fixtures chaos come September/October, and that's an absolute fact no matter how much some people try to deny it.

No win!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 13/11/2024 09:47:29    2579459

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@Onfor15 - actually found the result of how that "Griffin motion" fared the other time it was brought at 2023 Congress. It got just under 33% of the vote, so turns out it was heavily defeated after all.

Was voted down mainly by "football counties" where clubs put up two main points of opposition to it:

1 - Where are we supposed to get time for all these extra training sessions and games? Didn't occur to them that you just split your existing times between hurling & football, like clubs do in a dual county like ourselves.

2 - How are we supposed to coach hurling when hardly anyone or nobody at all in our club has ever even held a hurl, or played the game? In fairness, they had a point with this one. If the motion were to succeed, it would mean that significant resources would have to be pumped into those counties for "Coach the Coaches" programmes.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 13/11/2024 09:54:38    2579460

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Replying To Onfor15:  "1. Terrible motion. Either a player at that age can play adult or he cant. It shouldn't be a particular grade of adult. What if for example a club doesnt have a team from junior down? The 18 year olds in that club couldn't play adult but the under 18's in the club next door could. Ridiculous


3. Awful motion which has been brought forward numerous times before and has been heavily defeated each time. How could the Sarsfields have an under 10 hurling team? They are a football only club. Or how could a club field a team if they had only 2 players for example"
One final point, this time in relation to Motion 1.

I'm not in favour of Minors playing adult anyway, but I do agree that if there were to be allowed to do so, it shouldn't be restricted to just Junior.

Take Adam Screeny as an example again, and the talk of how he was able to play Senior Club Championship in Offaly last year, and then against Naomh Éanna in the Leinster championship.

If he'd been from Gorey instead, he still wouldn't have been allowed to play senior, despite clearly being good enough for it. He'd have been restricted to lining out with their Junior team instead.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 13/11/2024 10:19:05    2579468

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "@Onfor15 - actually found the result of how that "Griffin motion" fared the other time it was brought at 2023 Congress. It got just under 33% of the vote, so turns out it was heavily defeated after all.

Was voted down mainly by "football counties" where clubs put up two main points of opposition to it:

1 - Where are we supposed to get time for all these extra training sessions and games? Didn't occur to them that you just split your existing times between hurling & football, like clubs do in a dual county like ourselves.

2 - How are we supposed to coach hurling when hardly anyone or nobody at all in our club has ever even held a hurl, or played the game? In fairness, they had a point with this one. If the motion were to succeed, it would mean that significant resources would have to be pumped into those counties for "Coach the Coaches" programmes."
Do you think the motion is a bad one Pikeman? The 33% vote reflected the demographics on hurling in the country as was to be expected. Isn't the GAA as a whole supposed to promote hurling as well as football though? Couldn't central funds be set aside for these coaching the coaches programmes? Isn't part of the problem that Games Development as a whole is dominated by Football men?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 13/11/2024 10:19:28    2579470

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Whether it's U17 and U20, or U18 and U21, I do agree that both club and county should be the same.

I think CTGAA10 is correct that the GAA centrally is part of the problem here. When they were asked to rule one way or the other about the age limits for clubs, they basically fudged the issue by leaving it up to each county to decide themselves. They recommend that the age grades be U17, U15, etc., but they don't make it mandatory.

And that brings a real "no win" situation here. When we had it at U17, the complaints were that too many lads just turning 18 that year weren't yet good enough or strong enough for adult competition, so they were missing out altogether.

Go back to U18 and the complaints become that the minority who are good enough and strong enough have to miss out on the adult competition "that they'd be well able for".

If we changed things again to allow second year U18s to play adult, there'd be fixtures chaos come September/October, and that's an absolute fact no matter how much some people try to deny it.

No win!"
I agree. It should all go back to u18 and u21. Isn't it the case that over half the counties are now back to u18/u21 for club? Or damn near it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 13/11/2024 10:21:08    2579473

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Replying To Viking66:  "You are missing the point of Liam Griffin's motion."
The purpose of convention motions is not to make points, it's to change rules or bring in rules and we shouldn't be bringing in bad rules

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 13/11/2024 13:40:08    2579514

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Replying To Onfor15:  "The purpose of convention motions is not to make points, it's to change rules or bring in rules and we shouldn't be bringing in bad rules"
How is it a bad rule to get children in this country the opportunity to play their national sport?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 13/11/2024 14:32:07    2579527

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Replying To Onfor15:  "The purpose of convention motions is not to make points, it's to change rules or bring in rules and we shouldn't be bringing in bad rules"
With respect, there's a big difference between saying you're missing the point of a motion, and suggesting the motion was just submitted to make a point rather than try bring in a rule.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 13/11/2024 15:24:54    2579535

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@Viking66 - I think it's a good motion from the point of view of what it tries to achieve. But sadly, if you judge good/bad in terms of chances of success, you'd probably have to consider it a bad one, because I fear it's doomed to fail again.

It'll be approved by Wexford, same as the last time, but will then be shot down at Congress by all the counties that are predominantly football. Even take the likes of Kerry, where hurling is relatively strong compared to the likes of Tyrone, Cavan, Leitrim, etc. - vast majority of clubs there are in football-only strongholds, and would put up the same arguments I listed before.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2605 - 13/11/2024 15:30:38    2579536

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "@Viking66 - I think it's a good motion from the point of view of what it tries to achieve. But sadly, if you judge good/bad in terms of chances of success, you'd probably have to consider it a bad one, because I fear it's doomed to fail again.

It'll be approved by Wexford, same as the last time, but will then be shot down at Congress by all the counties that are predominantly football. Even take the likes of Kerry, where hurling is relatively strong compared to the likes of Tyrone, Cavan, Leitrim, etc. - vast majority of clubs there are in football-only strongholds, and would put up the same arguments I listed before."
Ah I agree 100% Pikeman. It has absolutely no chance of getting adopted sadly. I suppose what Onfor15 was getting at was proposing it at all is only really making a point, being as we all know the half-gaels won't wear it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13737 - 13/11/2024 16:59:25    2579551

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