National Forum

Some Updates On The Football Review

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Replying To legendzxix:  "McGeeney making the point that the elements could see a team benefit from two pointers but then the wind could be calm in the second half!
That would nearly suggest offer 4 points for a goal and leave points as they are. The new attacking mark is supposed to be encouraging more goal opportunities anyway."
Given your 'change of wind' point, Paul Rouse on the Examiner Football Podcast suggested 4 quarters to mitigate that risk.

Attacking mark - I wonder if the 45-20 kick is too long - it's only 25 metres when kicked parallel with the sideline, but most kicks would be at an angle (hypotenuse is longer). Maybe a 40-13 instead? - defenders would need to cut off the easy potshot from the corners outside the 20.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3105 - 02/02/2025 16:04:39    2588905

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Interesting seeing my first game live under the new rules. It was exciting going to game today.
Comparing to recent years the game was a lot better.

In terms of the key rule changes-
A. The kickout rule is a huge improvement.
B. Keeping 3 players forward a huge improvement.
C. Not letting goalie get hand pass in own half definitely improves the game.
For me these are the 3 key rule changes and all are positive for the game.

Not completely sold on all the other new rules yet but it's early days and things might change a lot as teams adapt to the new rules/ we get used to seeing them.

Some possible downsides or certain rule changes (just based on initial match)
1. Handing ball back and 50m forward rule possible too much, feels like we could be making the game too 'nice'
2. I'm not sure on the solo and go, I'd prefer to see a kich following on from a free, almost a rugby league feel to the way after a stoppage we just keep running at opposition (nothing against rugby league, just it's a different sport with different character to it).
3. Scoring system (3/2/1) seems a bit off. Not sure awarding 2 points from outside 40m actually has huge influence on how teams play/ makes wind advantage (which could change between halves) too important/ goals not as important as they should be.
4. We should probably extend the new goalie receiving the ball to opponents half and ban them taking frees.

Would hope well get more kicking back into the game as teams adapt to always having 3 players forward.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1412 - 02/02/2025 22:27:15    2589083

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@bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1403 - 02/02/2025 22:27:15

Nice post.

1) Game too "nice"
I hear you, but I am agnostic on this. I am a huge supporter of the 'respect the ref' initiative, and 'hand the ball back' seems to be an extension of respect to your opponent. For now, I'd keep it.

2) Solo 'n' Go
I hear you again - I prefer your 'kick on' instead of the current 'run on' after solo 'n' go.

3) 3/2/1
I suppose the wind factor was there under the old scale as well (i.e. one team more easily able to kick 'wind assisted' points in one match half).
I want to see the 2-pt shot play out, but I agree, the goal in undervalued - maybe return to 4 pts is about right.
Also, I'd like to see 2-pt scores broken out in presenting scores - i.e. as GAT (goals, arcs, total) - it eliminates mental maths calculations and one can determine 'single pts' in the total, if so inclined.

4) Goalie out field
It looks unnatural for goalies coming out and scoring from play. If the current rule is retained, then I think the defence should keep 'any 4' back at all times, so it's 11v11 at most up front.
But if you ask me, goalie should be restricted to inside his 20 - that's liberal enough.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3105 - 02/02/2025 23:35:45    2589106

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There seems to be a more positive reaction to the new rules after NFL round 2. Derry v Kerry helping matters. Their terrible quarter final last year being a case in point for rule changes.
1v1 throw in, goalkeeper passing, solo & go and the advanced mark improvement make sense.
3v3, goalkeeper kicks outs and two pointers are the more debatable changes.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8566 - 03/02/2025 02:35:22    2589118

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There seems to be a more positive reaction to the new rules after NFL round 2. Derry v Kerry helping matters. Their terrible quarter final last year being a case in point for rule changes.
1v1 throw in, goalkeeper passing, solo & go and the advanced mark improvement make sense.
3v3, goalkeeper kicks outs and two pointers are the more debatable changes."
Surely keeping 3 forward and enforcing long kickouts are the biggest factors in stopping teams playing aimless possession football?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1412 - 03/02/2025 08:43:15    2589135

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With the new rule changes this year do people think we still need any 'mark' rules in the sport after this season?.
At the game I was at yesterday we had plenty of old school kickout battles for possession?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1412 - 03/02/2025 08:49:01    2589138

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There seems to be a more positive reaction to the new rules after NFL round 2. Derry v Kerry helping matters. Their terrible quarter final last year being a case in point for rule changes.
1v1 throw in, goalkeeper passing, solo & go and the advanced mark improvement make sense.
3v3, goalkeeper kicks outs and two pointers are the more debatable changes."
I think the last 3 are all good changes also

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 03/02/2025 09:14:19    2589142

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There seems to be a more positive reaction to the new rules after NFL round 2. Derry v Kerry helping matters. Their terrible quarter final last year being a case in point for rule changes.
1v1 throw in, goalkeeper passing, solo & go and the advanced mark improvement make sense.
3v3, goalkeeper kicks outs and two pointers are the more debatable changes."
The change to the advance mark makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…. If the forward catches the ball inside and takes a shot and misses, he is then given a second chance to tap the ball over… laughable stuff…! What's a defender supposed to do..?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3544 - 03/02/2025 09:39:03    2589149

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The change to the advance mark makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…. If the forward catches the ball inside and takes a shot and misses, he is then given a second chance to tap the ball over… laughable stuff…! What's a defender supposed to do..?"
Finally there it is in black and white. You don't even understand how the new rules work. Please stop posting on anything GAA related because you are absolutely embarrassing yourself on here.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8295 - 03/02/2025 10:56:04    2589160

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The change to the advance mark makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…. If the forward catches the ball inside and takes a shot and misses, he is then given a second chance to tap the ball over… laughable stuff…! What's a defender supposed to do..?"
I know I'm just feeding the troll -

The intention of the mark was always to promote kicking.
2 aspects of it annoyed many people -
The potential to do a lateral dink 20m pass going 5 yards past 45 & getting a mark
Players catching a mark in a position where they might be able to get a run on goal but choosing instead to take guaranteed point

These two aspects now are gone as it's restricted from 45-20 - how many did we see over the weekend just gone, 2? And there is an advantage to run at goal now still with the point on offer.

If the option to take it on wasn't there it would be exactly the same as before nobody would choose to take it on & go for goal

systematic (Galway) - Posts: 135 - 03/02/2025 11:02:42    2589162

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Replying To omahant:  "@bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1403 - 02/02/2025 22:27:15

Nice post.

1) Game too "nice"
I hear you, but I am agnostic on this. I am a huge supporter of the 'respect the ref' initiative, and 'hand the ball back' seems to be an extension of respect to your opponent. For now, I'd keep it.

2) Solo 'n' Go
I hear you again - I prefer your 'kick on' instead of the current 'run on' after solo 'n' go.

3) 3/2/1
I suppose the wind factor was there under the old scale as well (i.e. one team more easily able to kick 'wind assisted' points in one match half).
I want to see the 2-pt shot play out, but I agree, the goal in undervalued - maybe return to 4 pts is about right.
Also, I'd like to see 2-pt scores broken out in presenting scores - i.e. as GAT (goals, arcs, total) - it eliminates mental maths calculations and one can determine 'single pts' in the total, if so inclined.

4) Goalie out field
It looks unnatural for goalies coming out and scoring from play. If the current rule is retained, then I think the defence should keep 'any 4' back at all times, so it's 11v11 at most up front.
But if you ask me, goalie should be restricted to inside his 20 - that's liberal enough."
Ya, would be better to change the way scores are broken out if we are keeping long range points outside of the arc. Say if we have have a game where team A scores a 5 seperate 2-pointers we should say 1.5.10 rather than currently we would say 1.20.
The first breakdown gives you a better feel what the game was like (ie. you can see a team actually scored 16 individual scores).

Or if we aren't breaking out 2 pointers out when recording scores we might as well just go with cumulative scores and not break goals out in score totals at all (if 2 pointers here to stay scoring them is almost as important as goals anyway so why bother put goals in scores and not 2 pointers).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1412 - 03/02/2025 12:20:02    2589179

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The change to the advance mark makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…. If the forward catches the ball inside and takes a shot and misses, he is then given a second chance to tap the ball over… laughable stuff…! What's a defender supposed to do..?"
You think the game is terrible to watch but you don't like any of the new rules??? And why they improve the game? What exactly do you want? And please don't say every coach in the country to start playing a free flowing kicking game where the result doesn't matter.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8295 - 03/02/2025 12:24:51    2589182

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After NFL Round 1: calls to limit handpassing.
After NFL Round 2: calls for allowing 6 or 7 substitutes or even reducing the game to 60 minutes.
Seems every round will have a new lobby group.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8566 - 03/02/2025 12:50:52    2589191

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After first 2 rounds of matches under new rules I'd probably like see few tweaks 1 not having to hand ball back just leave it on ground
2 not allowed bring free outside arc for 2 pointer or 2 points for free outside 45 think also a 50 metre penalty for maybe small infraction like not handing ball back maybe 20 meter enough personnel myself I'd have left all points 1 score but that won't change

Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/02/2025 13:43:46    2589205

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You think the game is terrible to watch but you don't like any of the new rules??? And why they improve the game? What exactly do you want? And please don't say every coach in the country to start playing a free flowing kicking game where the result doesn't matter."
The problem Flaker is there are far too many rule changes many of them nonsensical… I agree with the 3 up ( why not 4 ) and the tap and go to an extent… I think at a free the taker should tap and go after stopping ( akin to rugby ) instead of just soloing on as if on an advantage… He can just solo straight into the nearest player and gain this ridiculous 50m advantage.. The 2 point arc is silly and only leading to huge score lines that only makes the game appear to be exciting.. The forwards mark is an embarrassment to any sport and should be immediately ditched.. why should a forward get a free shot ( let alone 2 ) for catching a ball… is he not supposed to be able to do that since he took the game up…? What's in it for the defender…? I also like the idea of the goal kick having to travel a longer distance but I just can't hack the sight of goalkeepers wandering away up the field… this makes absolutely no sense when 3 of your outfield players aren't allowed to do so… Don't get me started on the ridiculous idea of handing the ball to your opponents or not being allowed ask the referee a question….. real infant stuff and no wonder numerous managers are giving out about it.. There you have it…Flaker.. I can see merit in some of the rules but anyone who thinks any of the rest are bringing any sort of improvement to the game are just either delusional , on the FRC or just haven't a clue about football…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3544 - 03/02/2025 13:51:33    2589208

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@systematic (Galway) - Posts: 121 - 03/02/2025 11:02:42

With the 45-20 hard to execute, it's only right to value it correctly - 'a chance at 3, with a guarantee of 1' seems about right.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3105 - 03/02/2025 15:04:26    2589225

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Replying To omahant:  "@systematic (Galway) - Posts: 121 - 03/02/2025 11:02:42

With the 45-20 hard to execute, it's only right to value it correctly - 'a chance at 3, with a guarantee of 1' seems about right."
What nonsense are you on about…? 45-20… give it a rest.. is the whole thing not bad enough..?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3544 - 03/02/2025 15:40:45    2589238

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@bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1407 - 03/02/2025

It was reported that Aidan O'Shea and a teammate were trying to figure out which team was winning at one stage in the Inter-Pro SFs - which is a bit crazy.

IMO, if three score varieties are broken out (e. g. your 1-5-10, as goals, arcs, pts, GAP), the 'mental maths calculation' to derive '23 total' is a bit much.

To aid Aidan and 'all of us', I prefer 1-5-23 (GAT, goals, arcs, total) for your example. The 1-pointers can still be 'calculated' if so desired, but the more critical total is provided. Granted, it's not traditional, but a better 'ease of reference' like in the AFL (GBT) .

Separately, as there doesn't seem to be enough 2-pt attempts in some games so far, what score variety mix breakdown do we want to see as optimal - say for every 6x 1-pointers, do we want to see 1 goal and 1 arc as well (GAP 1-1-6, GAT 1-1-11)?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3105 - 03/02/2025 15:41:03    2589239

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You think the game is terrible to watch but you don't like any of the new rules??? And why they improve the game? What exactly do you want? And please don't say every coach in the country to start playing a free flowing kicking game where the result doesn't matter."
The problem Flaker is there are far too many rule changes many of them nonsensical… I agree with the 3 up ( why not 4 ) and the tap and go to an extent… I think at a free the taker should tap and go after stopping ( akin to rugby ) instead of just soloing on as if on an advantage… He can just solo straight into the nearest player and gain this ridiculous 50m advantage.. The 2 point arc is silly and only leading to huge score lines that only makes the game appear to be exciting.. The forwards mark is an embarrassment to any sport and should be immediately ditched.. why should a forward get a free shot ( let alone 2 ) for catching a ball… is he not supposed to be able to do that since he took the game up…? What's in it for the defender…? I also like the idea of the goal kick having to travel a longer distance but I just can't hack the sight of goalkeepers wandering away up the field… this makes absolutely no sense when 3 of your outfield players aren't allowed to do so… Don't get me started on the ridiculous idea of handing the ball to your opponents or not being allowed ask the referee a question….. real infant stuff and no wonder numerous managers are giving out about it.. There you have it…Flaker.. I can see merit in some of the rules but anyone who thinks any of the rest are bringing any sort of improvement to the game are just either delusional , on the FRC or just haven't a clue about football…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3544 - 03/02/2025 15:50:05    2589245

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Replying To legendzxix:  "After NFL Round 1: calls to limit handpassing.
After NFL Round 2: calls for allowing 6 or 7 substitutes or even reducing the game to 60 minutes.
Seems every round will have a new lobby group."
Despite all the handpassing, I am finding the games more entertaining (e.g. Armagh v Derry) - I'm not switching off like before.

Should scores be shown as GAT - i.e. goals, arcs and 'total' - to give equal breakdown of goals and arcs, with no need for calculators? (GAPT is too much, IMO).

Given only a few 2-pt attempts in some games, is the long-range score worth enough? Just a question - (as I prefer 4-2-1) - could/should the scale be 6-3-1 (like International Rules)?

What is your optimal 'score variety' breakdown - mine is, for every six 1-pointers, I'd like to see 1 goal and 1 arc as well.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3105 - 03/02/2025 16:02:06    2589254

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