National Forum

Some Updates On The Football Review

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Sure rugby union did get a boost in Oz after they won the world cup but in reality union has always been behind Rules and rugby league over there and soccer is now taking over in Australia and soccer is threatening rugby union big time in New Zealand. You are right the GAA cannot be complacent, there is a lot of competition out there both for participants and supporters. Maybe conceding to the wishes of the players regarding playing the finals in July was a mistake but surely attempting to reverse the decision now without player agreement would be an even bigger error."
A mistake to concede to the players??? What games will you have without players?

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 07/09/2024 15:58:52    2568843

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Why don't you form a breakaway sport then? Maybe not a sport actually, because coaching won't be allowed. But a bit like WWE you could send out a bunch of lads in Peaky Blinders caps and cigarettes in their mouths like the good old days. Go out and just drive the ball up the field and swing punches at whoever is in possession. No hand passing, just aimless kicks, no training because that's too robotic. No emphasis on winning because that takes the fun out of it. Just lads on a field kicking the ball over the bar with only one man allowed near him and give the trophy to both sides at the end because it's all about entertainment, not winning. You could be like the Jake Paul of the GAA, calling out finished GAA players to come join the pantomime. See if your ideals can draw a bigger crowd."
Another member of the trendy woke brigade, read your post again and cringe. All those legends of the past Matt Connor, Frank Mc Guigan, Jack O'Shea were just figments of the imagination to be mocked and laughter at. Welcome to the " 29 players inside the 50 yard line" era of football.- you are welcome to it.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 338 - 07/09/2024 17:56:43    2568846

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Another member of the trendy woke brigade, read your post again and cringe. All those legends of the past Matt Connor, Frank Mc Guigan, Jack O'Shea were just figments of the imagination to be mocked and laughter at. Welcome to the " 29 players inside the 50 yard line" era of football.- you are welcome to it."
Calling me 'woke' and then you proceed to get offended over players I wasn't even referring to, the irony. You're the same fella who was advising me and people from Antrim to be more like Tyrone and focus on GAA instead of other sports (the irony again), now you're telling me I'm welcome to the big ball game that I want to watch and you don't want to watch. While Antrim hurling is in far better shape than Tyrone hurling, so I must ask, is there anything at all that you say to me that actually makes sense?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 07/09/2024 21:21:22    2568865

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Another member of the trendy woke brigade, read your post again and cringe. All those legends of the past Matt Connor, Frank Mc Guigan, Jack O'Shea were just figments of the imagination to be mocked and laughter at. Welcome to the " 29 players inside the 50 yard line" era of football.- you are welcome to it."
Will match Rian O'Neill, Brian Fenton, David Clifford against you named 3 any day. The game evolves and so do the players. Your mutterings a really cringe worthy. WOKE.........you need to wake up.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 08/09/2024 00:28:58    2568881

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Will match Rian O'Neill, Brian Fenton, David Clifford against you named 3 any day. The game evolves and so do the players. Your mutterings a really cringe worthy. WOKE.........you need to wake up."
I'm not sure how close you follow Gaelic games but I will remind you again, a review committee has been set up to address the problems with the modern game. Did you ever ask yourself why this was set up, it was set up so that football fans can enjoy the brilliance of players like David Clifford etc instead of the rubbish we are now watching.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 338 - 08/09/2024 10:40:41    2568898

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "A mistake to concede to the players??? What games will you have without players?"
Maybe I was less than clear in what I posted. I agree that the players must be front and centre. What I failed to make clear is if the GAA hierarchy had issues with the finals moving forward to July then they should have bargained harder with the players at the time (maybe they could have got an agreement for finals Mid-august, not sure?). To attempt to move the finals back now without player agreement (I was replying to a poster who suggested this) would be a bigger error.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 08/09/2024 11:36:14    2568902

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "No!!!!"
That is too vague - what is there not to like?
The two 16s?
League or Provs retained?
12 matches is too little change?
Ulster saying NO for decades isn't a solution!

Yours "ideas" look very transparent - don't you think, or not?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2889 - 08/09/2024 14:24:53    2568928

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Replying To omahant:  "That is too vague - what is there not to like?
The two 16s?
League or Provs retained?
12 matches is too little change?
Ulster saying NO for decades isn't a solution!

Yours "ideas" look very transparent - don't you think, or not?"
No!!
Now that a new Inter Co Football SFC will be on the agenda of Congress 2025 your hour has come.

Send your proposals to all the County Boards asking them to put them in a motion to Congress.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 08/09/2024 20:32:36    2568980

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "I'm not sure how close you follow Gaelic games but I will remind you again, a review committee has been set up to address the problems with the modern game. Did you ever ask yourself why this was set up, it was set up so that football fans can enjoy the brilliance of players like David Clifford etc instead of the rubbish we are now watching."
He doesn't follow football full stop

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 08/09/2024 21:40:23    2568993

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Sure rugby union did get a boost in Oz after they won the world cup but in reality union has always been behind Rules and rugby league over there and soccer is now taking over in Australia and soccer is threatening rugby union big time in New Zealand. You are right the GAA cannot be complacent, there is a lot of competition out there both for participants and supporters. Maybe conceding to the wishes of the players regarding playing the finals in July was a mistake but surely attempting to reverse the decision now without player agreement would be an even bigger error."
Don't get me wrong - I do not think it was necessarily a bad idea to move the finals to July as an experiment. But I think that experiment has failed to a certain extent. I'll come back to my initial points that very little football or hurling was played at the top level - either County Championships or Inter-County in July. We've designed a lull between the Inter county game and the Club game and are effectively treating them as different sports.

We could have had the All Ireland football final this year on August 17th with only Galway and Armagh impacted by that change as they both had their first round group game that same weekend. Then the whole championship would be a lot less rushed as a result. Galway and Armagh could push the start and end of their championships by a week and everything else could stay the same. I think something like this is a pragmatic comprise between certainty of fixtures and the needs of the game at every level.

I'd still prefer a master fixtures list with the traditional September final dates allowing for a good degree of overlap between the club and inter-county game. This would need everyone to agree that a player is Club first and then County to allow the best players to represent both with equal distinction and reject the inter-county manager demands to keep the players away from the club. I don't see that really working though - in reality the county boards would revert to type and keep postponing fixtures despite the best interests of the game in general.

I believe the tweak to the group stage along with a rule adjustment to have a more open game will help a lot. I think getting the timing of the game right is just as important.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 352 - 09/09/2024 10:56:27    2569043

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Replying To brianb:  "Don't get me wrong - I do not think it was necessarily a bad idea to move the finals to July as an experiment. But I think that experiment has failed to a certain extent. I'll come back to my initial points that very little football or hurling was played at the top level - either County Championships or Inter-County in July. We've designed a lull between the Inter county game and the Club game and are effectively treating them as different sports.

We could have had the All Ireland football final this year on August 17th with only Galway and Armagh impacted by that change as they both had their first round group game that same weekend. Then the whole championship would be a lot less rushed as a result. Galway and Armagh could push the start and end of their championships by a week and everything else could stay the same. I think something like this is a pragmatic comprise between certainty of fixtures and the needs of the game at every level.

I'd still prefer a master fixtures list with the traditional September final dates allowing for a good degree of overlap between the club and inter-county game. This would need everyone to agree that a player is Club first and then County to allow the best players to represent both with equal distinction and reject the inter-county manager demands to keep the players away from the club. I don't see that really working though - in reality the county boards would revert to type and keep postponing fixtures despite the best interests of the game in general.

I believe the tweak to the group stage along with a rule adjustment to have a more open game will help a lot. I think getting the timing of the game right is just as important."
Problem is Brian, the players don't believe that the new calendar has failed. As recently as July a GPA survey of county players reported a massive 85% in favour of the July finals and the ex chairman of the club players association (now disbanded) spoke of the positivity among club players for the new arrangements.
It is significant that while Jarlath Burns suggested strongly a couple of months ago that the finals could be move back to mid or late August, he has never mentioned it since. He spoke about lots of football issues this last weekend, changing the format of the football, the pre-season competitions etc but not a word about the dates being changed. I would suggest he got a loud and clear message from the players association that it's not going to happen.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 09/09/2024 12:25:19    2569063

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I think we will end up with an August final in the next couple of years when tweaks are made. The club season is brilliant at the minute. Big games week on week. All players available for club not like the past. The majority of people who complain about the calendar the loudest have no real interest in club football. They just want sport to watch from their couch.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 09/09/2024 13:03:55    2569070

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I think we will end up with an August final in the next couple of years when tweaks are made. The club season is brilliant at the minute. Big games week on week. All players available for club not like the past. The majority of people who complain about the calendar the loudest have no real interest in club football. They just want sport to watch from their couch."
You definitely right about the couch kids. Lads like Walter Mitty in Cavan and others too lazy to get up and go out to a club game. Never belonged to a club in their lives. Same lugs who give out about GAAGo. Want to sit at home and watch all games for free. Don't have the cop on to know that RTE do not have the channel time to carry all games. I am all for the season remaining as it is with the County Championships up and running mid August, coming to a climax in all counties mid October. Some mighty games on at present in all counties. Have sampled a few in Cavan and Armagh. Like my own county good crowds and exciting games. Made 6 games this weekend,including a Minor game. Great value for money. I am not a drinker but if I was it was less than the price of 9 pints to attend the 6 games. Last game yesterday evening was a clinker of a local derby in North Monaghan. Massive crowd. Our games are alive and well. To hell with the moaners and begrudgers. Throw a rattler into their cots.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 09/09/2024 15:13:46    2569102

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Problem is Brian, the players don't believe that the new calendar has failed. As recently as July a GPA survey of county players reported a massive 85% in favour of the July finals and the ex chairman of the club players association (now disbanded) spoke of the positivity among club players for the new arrangements.
It is significant that while Jarlath Burns suggested strongly a couple of months ago that the finals could be move back to mid or late August, he has never mentioned it since. He spoke about lots of football issues this last weekend, changing the format of the football, the pre-season competitions etc but not a word about the dates being changed. I would suggest he got a loud and clear message from the players association that it's not going to happen."
A slight correction - in the GPA survey 85% are in favour of maintaining the Split Season which is not the same as in favour of the July finals. The GPA while being all for the split season they are also concerned at the condensed scheduling it introduces. Indeed I read that the GPA could get behind August finals so long as a later start to the season was also introduced (by scrapping the pre-season competitions).

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 352 - 09/09/2024 16:01:01    2569113

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Replying To brianb:  "A slight correction - in the GPA survey 85% are in favour of maintaining the Split Season which is not the same as in favour of the July finals. The GPA while being all for the split season they are also concerned at the condensed scheduling it introduces. Indeed I read that the GPA could get behind August finals so long as a later start to the season was also introduced (by scrapping the pre-season competitions)."
Will the NFL be starting and finishing earlier in 2025 now the the preseason thingys have been "Suspended"???

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 09/09/2024 17:52:01    2569140

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Will the NFL be starting and finishing earlier in 2025 now the the preseason thingys have been "Suspended"???"
Probably a week earlier. I think teams will still need pre-season games like most sports have. The NFL is too important to use it totally as warm ups. A 2 or 3 game pre season with no semis or finals to worry about should allow for a week earlier start, which I would hope would be used as break between league finals and championship. For the challenge games hopefully some system would be in place that would prevent junkets all over the country by counties.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 09/09/2024 20:19:47    2569158

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I really don't understand the issue with pre season competition. They will now be replaced by challenge games, which is worst of both worlds. Some of the bigger counties used them as development competitions.

Maybe some counties did pre season training for the pre season competitions instead of using them as prep for the league?

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1890 - 10/09/2024 12:15:59    2569242

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Replying To Mayonman:  "I really don't understand the issue with pre season competition. They will now be replaced by challenge games, which is worst of both worlds. Some of the bigger counties used them as development competitions.

Maybe some counties did pre season training for the pre season competitions instead of using them as prep for the league?"
Players/GPA wanted rid of them, obviously convinced a majority of CC to go along with this.
Made easier by Jarlath Burns also supporting their suspension.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 10/09/2024 12:47:56    2569257

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Replying To brianb:  "A slight correction - in the GPA survey 85% are in favour of maintaining the Split Season which is not the same as in favour of the July finals. The GPA while being all for the split season they are also concerned at the condensed scheduling it introduces. Indeed I read that the GPA could get behind August finals so long as a later start to the season was also introduced (by scrapping the pre-season competitions)."
Does mid-Jan to mid-Aug (7 mos) look like the right inter-county window?

How much rest in a calendar year should a "David Clifford" get?

Ideally, I think elite players should serve one master - make counties like "super clubs" like what the Irish Provinces became in rugby. Then the non-elite 98% play with their current club only (like AIL rugby). Players could be picked or dropped for the "representative" county, but at any time, is eligible for either but not both.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2889 - 10/09/2024 15:37:23    2569285

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Replying To omahant:  "Does mid-Jan to mid-Aug (7 mos) look like the right inter-county window?

How much rest in a calendar year should a "David Clifford" get?

Ideally, I think elite players should serve one master - make counties like "super clubs" like what the Irish Provinces became in rugby. Then the non-elite 98% play with their current club only (like AIL rugby). Players could be picked or dropped for the "representative" county, but at any time, is eligible for either but not both."
And look where club rugby has gone. No thanks. The clubs are the GAA. Jan. to end of July is more than enough for County football. County pre-season training needs to be limited and monitored, with breaches leading to heavy penalties. Penalties like banning counties from the Championship would soon ensure compliance.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 10/09/2024 19:24:04    2569307

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