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Replying To legendzxix: "The middle ground should be moving everything month later. All-Ireland finals at the end of August. Club championships starting at the beginning of September. All-Ireland club finals in February. Allianz leagues starting at the end of February. Championship from May to August. Club players can hopefully enjoy some holiday time around July and August, and be ready to go in September. Same for any third level students going away for the summer." Best option so far. I'm with you on that.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 23/04/2024 12:33:49
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Replying To Whammo86: "Some part of me thinks that too much is trying to be done centrally and it's also taking up too much of a footprint.
You could have a good championship played over 14 or 15 weeks with finals ending in September that's 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8.
You could have All Ireland club be determined also. Maybe 1st weekend of March for semifinals and St Patrick's day for the final and then have nothing else predetermined centrally.
Leave it to Provincial councils in cooperation with county boards to draw up their calendars otherwise.
There are different challenges and traditions in different parts of the country and to try to structure everything centrally is maybe a fool's errand." Both the GPA and CPA campaigned for the new intercounty calendar with the finals in July. Indeed the CPA disbanded early 2021 as its objective was achieved. All surveys of players both intercounty and club show big majorities for the July finals. A few high profile players and managers stating the opposite view doesn't change the majority view. Sure the fans in general want change back towards the old dates but can this be done in spite of the players' wishes?
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 23/04/2024 12:38:47
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Replying To sligo joe: "Both the GPA and CPA campaigned for the new intercounty calendar with the finals in July. Indeed the CPA disbanded early 2021 as its objective was achieved. All surveys of players both intercounty and club show big majorities for the July finals. A few high profile players and managers stating the opposite view doesn't change the majority view. Sure the fans in general want change back towards the old dates but can this be done in spite of the players' wishes?" I think the change was better than what came before but isn't necessarily the absolute best solution.
I think what we went for overshot what was actually needed and it's not good for the club game overall.
I think the clarity over fixtures is a good thing but a split season or one played in the current window is necessarily needed to achieve that.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 13:21:34
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Replying To Saynothing: "Best option so far. I'm with you on that." When do you play Provincial club. How do you fit in in after club championship in a dual county.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 13:22:39
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Replying To Saynothing: "Best option so far. I'm with you on that." Just think it has to be pointed out again that both you and the Kerry poster here are making little or no allowance for dual counties where equal (or near equal) prominence is given to the club championships in both codes, and where broadly the same structures apply to them both.
I know the club hurling championships don't drastically affect the running of the football competitions in either Kerry or Tyrone, but it's not like that everywhere!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 23/04/2024 13:36:21
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The thing is I don't think anyone disagrees with the concept of the split season, its the application of it that's up for debate.
I don't believe we need all ireland finals in July, I think it's ridiculous, but nor do I think they have to go September.
I also don't see the need for the amount of inter County games that there is currently, like I said previously with football why do we need so many games at the latter stages to go from 16 teams down to 8 and 4? Why is so much time taken up with pre season tournaments?
Nor do I see the need for the club championships to be wrapped up in the calendar year. Its not that big a deal if the club championship semi finals and final for example take place in the following calendar year, it's affecting a dozen clubs or so out of over 2000 so why are we insisting on it?
I do fear a future where the super clubs becomes the dominant force, where county players literally decide I can't be bothered playing county, I'll just do club because one of the big super clubs in Dublin decides they may be interested in taking me on, sure no point in flogging myself doing both. It may sound ridiculous but think about it.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 23/04/2024 13:57:28
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Replying To tearintom: "The thing is I don't think anyone disagrees with the concept of the split season, its the application of it that's up for debate.
I don't believe we need all ireland finals in July, I think it's ridiculous, but nor do I think they have to go September.
I also don't see the need for the amount of inter County games that there is currently, like I said previously with football why do we need so many games at the latter stages to go from 16 teams down to 8 and 4? Why is so much time taken up with pre season tournaments?
Nor do I see the need for the club championships to be wrapped up in the calendar year. Its not that big a deal if the club championship semi finals and final for example take place in the following calendar year, it's affecting a dozen clubs or so out of over 2000 so why are we insisting on it?
I do fear a future where the super clubs becomes the dominant force, where county players literally decide I can't be bothered playing county, I'll just do club because one of the big super clubs in Dublin decides they may be interested in taking me on, sure no point in flogging myself doing both. It may sound ridiculous but think about it." I think we actually do need All-Ireland Finals in July, if the counties competing in them are to be allowed sufficient time to run their club championships across August/September/October.
Otherwise you'd be looking for one of four things, all unfair and/or unlikely:
- they'd have to run vastly condensed club championships in order to be ready for provincial club competition in early October, or
- they'd have to forego participation in provincial club championships, as their club championships wouldn't be finished in time, or
- you're asking county managers to release players back to clubs at a time the county side is preparing for an All-Ireland semi-final or final, or
- you're asking clubs to play the early rounds of club championships without their star county players.
I do agree there are too many matches in the inter-county football championships (both Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup) to whittle 16 teams down to 12, and I agree no harm in the All-Ireland clubs semi-finals and finals taking place early in the following calendar year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 23/04/2024 14:15:37
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think the change was better than what came before but isn't necessarily the absolute best solution.
I think what we went for overshot what was actually needed and it's not good for the club game overall.
I think the clarity over fixtures is a good thing but a split season or one played in the current window is necessarily needed to achieve that." I personally am not arguing for July or September. I'm just posing the question that if there is momentum among say supporters, media, intercounty managers, sponsors to move again, say to late August or September, can this be done if as seems to be the case, the vast majority of intercounty and club players want to stay with July?
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 23/04/2024 14:39:28
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I think we actually do need All-Ireland Finals in July, if the counties competing in them are to be allowed sufficient time to run their club championships across August/September/October.
Otherwise you'd be looking for one of four things, all unfair and/or unlikely:
- they'd have to run vastly condensed club championships in order to be ready for provincial club competition in early October, or
- they'd have to forego participation in provincial club championships, as their club championships wouldn't be finished in time, or
- you're asking county managers to release players back to clubs at a time the county side is preparing for an All-Ireland semi-final or final, or
- you're asking clubs to play the early rounds of club championships without their star county players.
I do agree there are too many matches in the inter-county football championships (both Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup) to whittle 16 teams down to 12, and I agree no harm in the All-Ireland clubs semi-finals and finals taking place early in the following calendar year." All fixable if we reduce the amount of inter County games and don't insist the all ireland the club championships are wrapped up by the end of January.
For me that's the best compromise and I think people are caught up in a pro or anti split season stance without looking at that compromise option which could in theory give us the best of both worlds.
Or here's an out there suggestion, flip the split season. Start with club first and then go inter County?
It makes sense I many ways, County teams get to see how players are performing before they actually go in to County rather than the other way around.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 23/04/2024 14:39:47
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Replying To tearintom: "All fixable if we reduce the amount of inter County games and don't insist the all ireland the club championships are wrapped up by the end of January.
For me that's the best compromise and I think people are caught up in a pro or anti split season stance without looking at that compromise option which could in theory give us the best of both worlds.
Or here's an out there suggestion, flip the split season. Start with club first and then go inter County?
It makes sense I many ways, County teams get to see how players are performing before they actually go in to County rather than the other way around." But reducing the number of inter-county games wouldn't do anything in itself to solve the issues re. club championship if the All-Ireland Finals were put back to August or September.
Even if the inter-county championships reverted to a straight knock-out, the counties competing in semi-finals and finals in August/September would still have the same issues I outlined in my last post.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 23/04/2024 14:55:33
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Replying To tearintom: "All fixable if we reduce the amount of inter County games and don't insist the all ireland the club championships are wrapped up by the end of January.
For me that's the best compromise and I think people are caught up in a pro or anti split season stance without looking at that compromise option which could in theory give us the best of both worlds.
Or here's an out there suggestion, flip the split season. Start with club first and then go inter County?
It makes sense I many ways, County teams get to see how players are performing before they actually go in to County rather than the other way around." By the way, a few things that strike me straight away on your idea to flip things, and run the club season first:
- Provincial and All-Ireland club championships would surely have to be finished in the same calendar year, i.e. by end of July. So you'd need all county finals played by the end of May, and maybe even middle of May.
And then, when you get to the inter-county part of the season:
- Do you still run the League first, and then the championship? That would mean All-Ireland Finals in December, which would hardly be ideal either.
- Or do you run the championships first? And then nobody really cares about the League over October to December?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 23/04/2024 15:00:15
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Replying To tearintom: "All fixable if we reduce the amount of inter County games and don't insist the all ireland the club championships are wrapped up by the end of January.
For me that's the best compromise and I think people are caught up in a pro or anti split season stance without looking at that compromise option which could in theory give us the best of both worlds.
Or here's an out there suggestion, flip the split season. Start with club first and then go inter County?
It makes sense I many ways, County teams get to see how players are performing before they actually go in to County rather than the other way around." I think in 2020 this was the system, the inter county season finished in December.
St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 121 - 23/04/2024 17:09:09
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Replying To Pikeman96: "By the way, a few things that strike me straight away on your idea to flip things, and run the club season first:
- Provincial and All-Ireland club championships would surely have to be finished in the same calendar year, i.e. by end of July. So you'd need all county finals played by the end of May, and maybe even middle of May.
And then, when you get to the inter-county part of the season:
- Do you still run the League first, and then the championship? That would mean All-Ireland Finals in December, which would hardly be ideal either.
- Or do you run the championships first? And then nobody really cares about the League over October to December?" You could run club Provincial and All Ireland championship after the inter county season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 19:41:32
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Replying To sligo joe: "I personally am not arguing for July or September. I'm just posing the question that if there is momentum among say supporters, media, intercounty managers, sponsors to move again, say to late August or September, can this be done if as seems to be the case, the vast majority of intercounty and club players want to stay with July?" I think you'd really want to bring them along and have a proper proposal that is looking after them and their needs.
It would have to involve reducing the footprint of the inter county season, getting them more games at the right time of year, having a schedule with the right amount of structure to and also enforcing their county board to playing club games between county games.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 19:45:41
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Replying To St.Mologga: "I think in 2020 this was the system, the inter county season finished in December." It was. But I presume you remember Covid, and why 2020 shouldn't be taken as a great model for how to do anything, either in GAA or outside of it!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 24/04/2024 13:19:18
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Replying To Whammo86: "You could run club Provincial and All Ireland championship after the inter county season." But when would that be, if the inter-county season is to run until December? Are you talking about running the provincial club championships in January/February - i.e. six months or more after the county finals, and just as the club season for the next calendar year is supposed to be starting?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 24/04/2024 13:22:50
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Replying To Pikeman96: "But when would that be, if the inter-county season is to run until December? Are you talking about running the provincial club championships in January/February - i.e. six months or more after the county finals, and just as the club season for the next calendar year is supposed to be starting?" Sorry I wasn't clear.
My thoughts on a timeline would be March to June for Club championships.
July to October for intercounty.
November December for All Ireland club.
I don't know if it would be workable though to have that many club fixtures happening in March.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 24/04/2024 15:07:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "Sorry I wasn't clear.
My thoughts on a timeline would be March to June for Club championships.
July to October for intercounty.
November December for All Ireland club.
I don't know if it would be workable though to have that many club fixtures happening in March." Wouldn't have got them played in March this year anyway, with the weather we had!
But the bigger issue is how you've only got four months (July/Aug/Sept/Oct) for inter-county. Basically, you're just pushing the current inter-county championship window back by three months, from April-July to July-October.
No National Leagues, or else a very condensed version of both League & Championship?
And either way, not much time for inter-county managers to have their sides ready to go in early July, after club county finals are played towards the end of June?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 24/04/2024 16:05:33
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Wouldn't have got them played in March this year anyway, with the weather we had!
But the bigger issue is how you've only got four months (July/Aug/Sept/Oct) for inter-county. Basically, you're just pushing the current inter-county championship window back by three months, from April-July to July-October.
No National Leagues, or else a very condensed version of both League & Championship?
And either way, not much time for inter-county managers to have their sides ready to go in early July, after club county finals are played towards the end of June?" I do think Inter county needs to be reduced down. For everyone's sake.
There's too many low impact games and it's hurting club football and inter county football in my opinion. Fewer games but have them more meaningful would be a big win.
Playing club in parallel with intercounty would be more time efficient than a split season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 24/04/2024 17:20:14
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Replying To Whammo86: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Wouldn't have got them played in March this year anyway, with the weather we had!
But the bigger issue is how you've only got four months (July/Aug/Sept/Oct) for inter-county. Basically, you're just pushing the current inter-county championship window back by three months, from April-July to July-October.
No National Leagues, or else a very condensed version of both League & Championship?
And either way, not much time for inter-county managers to have their sides ready to go in early July, after club county finals are played towards the end of June?" I do think Inter county needs to be reduced down. For everyone's sake. There's too many low impact games and it's hurting club football and inter county football in my opinion. Fewer games but have them more meaningful would be a big win. Playing club in parallel with intercounty would be more time efficient than a split season."
For example, given that you're only allowing a four-month inter-county window, what do you mean by "fewer games but have them more meaningful"?
Do away with the National Leagues and run championship only, because championship is more meaningful?
Or keep some form of the Leagues and revert to a straight knock-out championship, so that every championship game is as meaningful as can be?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 25/04/2024 13:45:43
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