National Forum

Attendances 2024

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "A Munster Hurling team could lose 3 games and still win the AI.
I don't hear anyone wanting that changed.
A Club in Roscommon only got 1 point in the group, then went on to win the title 2 years ago.
Groups are for qualifying from."
Bit of a difference, munster hurling group of 5 teams, 2 football competitions with 16 and 17 teams, alot more meaningless games 24 matches to eliminate 4 teams.

Groups are for Louis Walsh and Top of the Pops

macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1142 - 10/06/2024 23:19:05    2550703

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "A Munster Hurling team could lose 3 games and still win the AI.
I don't hear anyone wanting that changed.
A Club in Roscommon only got 1 point in the group, then went on to win the title 2 years ago.
Groups are for qualifying from."
Did you ever hear the saying " Two wrongs don't make a right "….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 10/06/2024 23:45:16    2550705

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "A Munster Hurling team could lose 3 games and still win the AI.
I don't hear anyone wanting that changed.
A Club in Roscommon only got 1 point in the group, then went on to win the title 2 years ago.
Groups are for qualifying from."
Better chance of explaining to a class of infants, than to some of the dimwits on this forum. Most major sporting competitions throughout the world have round robin qualifying to the latter knockout stages. Many with different criteria. Our present system was driven by the players wishes. They are the most important stakeholders. And I am not going to spend time explaining what that means to the child from Cavan. All I will say as a supporter of a team that made it to the semi final last year,it was a fun journey from Derry to Clones to Omagh to Tullamore and two trips to Croke Park and believe me our lads gave it all in every game.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 387 - 11/06/2024 00:23:09    2550709

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Replying To macca999:  "Interesting your comparison to football, given the structure of the champions league now, more group games driven by making more income, surely you havnt just stumbled onto the reason for the GAA All Ireland series structuring!!:-)

True Champions are those who perform well throughout the competition, winning every game under the pressure, where every match has consequence in that you need to win to progress, in this case there can be no questioning the last team standing as worthy victors

The change to qualifiers was referred to as backdoor system, what is current one? backdoor, chimney and attic system?"
The Andy Dufresne All Ireland Championship.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 11/06/2024 01:10:43    2550711

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Better chance of explaining to a class of infants, than to some of the dimwits on this forum. Most major sporting competitions throughout the world have round robin qualifying to the latter knockout stages. Many with different criteria. Our present system was driven by the players wishes. They are the most important stakeholders. And I am not going to spend time explaining what that means to the child from Cavan. All I will say as a supporter of a team that made it to the semi final last year,it was a fun journey from Derry to Clones to Omagh to Tullamore and two trips to Croke Park and believe me our lads gave it all in every game."
A rubbish system that the GAA will dispense with as they can see clearly the supporters are not interested… Teams qualifying after not winning any of their 4 previous championship games is nothing short of farcical…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 11/06/2024 11:31:53    2550759

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "A rubbish system that the GAA will dispense with as they can see clearly the supporters are not interested… Teams qualifying after not winning any of their 4 previous championship games is nothing short of farcical…"
What should be the format then?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 11/06/2024 11:44:16    2550763

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I'd say there will a much lower attendance than expected at Breffni Park Sunday , whatever fee Monaghon bring in hearing Meath will bring very few they brought around 1500 to inniskeen a few weeks ago where Louth brought 5,000 in d say if Meath bring 1,000 fans Sunday it will be the top . I'd say you could be looking at around 4,000 max

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 767 - 11/06/2024 11:45:34    2550767

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Replying To KillingFields:  "What should be the format then?"
A please don't ask him to find a brain to use. With all his baloney, he has never once on any site put forward a suggestion of any kind. I would imagine his idea of a championship would have players train to play one game in May, goals worth more than any number of points, Ulster finals in Dundalk and the Bishop throwing in the ball to 20 midfielders and hoping to get to the sideline in one piece. Oh and 3d Admission. Don't try to explain to him that overall attendances will be way up this year on HIS glory days in the 70s and 80s.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 387 - 11/06/2024 12:33:22    2550785

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Replying To KillingFields:  "What should be the format then?"
One thing they could and probably will is do away with 3 teams qualifying out of 4…. that's just ridiculous.. make it 2/4 with the winners of the opening group games playing each other in the 2nd round of matches… This would make for more interesting games in an effort to make the top 2… The minimal amount of jeopardy involved in the current system just makes it boring which is reflected in the tiny attendance figures and drab atmosphere at games….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 11/06/2024 12:37:11    2550786

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ORIELMAN85

The topic is attendances, which even Frank Spencer can work out are dropping like flies as the meaning of the championship games have been diluted with too many games that have no consequence and are being played over too short a timeframe(cost on families etc), this means alot less atmosphere,buzz for players to relish and thrive in.

If continues this will hurt GAA in terms of sponsorship as alot harder to get companies to invest in product where their flagship competition is attracting less than 10,000 to watch the stars of our national game. The fact that can still purchase tickets easily for Dublin V Mayo in the Hyde this weekend for championship is prime example, normally be selling both kidneys for a ticket between the 2 best supported counties


Though seems dont have to be in Egypt to bury head in sand here.

Jarlath Burns himself is an intelligent man and im sure will be acting on this as has already indicated and hasnt set up a Football Review Committee for the craic either.

macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1142 - 11/06/2024 12:51:19    2550791

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "A rubbish system that the GAA will dispense with as they can see clearly the supporters are not interested… Teams qualifying after not winning any of their 4 previous championship games is nothing short of farcical…"
This obsession with the so called purity of the knock-out system is crazy and totally out of the line with other team sports throughout the world. It is remarkable that the GAA survived so long using such a limited system for its main competition. And the forced return of that system during Covid showed its limitations.

The only sport I can think of that uses pure knock-out for its most prestigious competition is Shinty's Camanachd Cup (typical attendance at the final is around 3,000). It also though has a full league running in parallel.

Teams can in theory win the Champions League in soccer having lost four group matches and three of the legs in the knock-out part. Would any team doing that be thought of as less of a Champion?

In theory a team can win the Cavan senior championship not having won any of their four matches in the Swiss Model league phase - in fact, in an extreme case they could lose all four. Would they be a lesser Champion if they can turn around and beat three higher seeds to win the championship.

If Derry or any another team can recover, having lost a provincial match and lost two group matches, and then beat four top teams to win the All Ireland, well done to them. That's a tougher path than many previous winners (e.g. Kerry 1997) under the knock-out system had to navigate.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 122 - 11/06/2024 12:55:10    2550794

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The drop in attendances is because the jackeens and rhubarbs aren't attending en masse anymore.
Dubs fed up paying money for turkey shoots and Mayo gone down the pecking order not making AI Finals etc.
Dublin played 3 Leinster SFC games in Croke Park getting around 60k in total at them all.
Back in the day they'd have had that number at each of the 3.

Both Counties now only getting diehard GAA people and with games being part of a series of 3 no big day sunshine supporters or big eventers turning up.

The knockout out qualifiers didn't bring very big crowds except for when Mayo were in them.
As I pointed out previously the average per game in the 2022 Qualifiers was 9,200.
Average in group games last year 8,200.
This year to date 8,100.

I'd estimate that the 130,000 attendances to date at the Group games must have grossed the GAA at least €2.5m.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 11/06/2024 15:16:43    2550833

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Games this weekend should have attendance numbers like this if not a full review will be required by HQ to see what tweaks to the format are needed to improve attendance figures.

Donegal v Clare - 4 to 6k

Tyrone v Cork - 5 to 7k

Roscommon v Cavan - 5 to 7k

Derry v Westmeath - 4 to 6k

Galway v Armagh - 8 to 10k

Kerry v Louth - 4 to 6k

Monaghan v Meath - 3 to 5k

Dublin v Mayo - 14 to 16k

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3492 - 11/06/2024 16:02:37    2550838

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Games this weekend should have attendance numbers like this if not a full review will be required by HQ to see what tweaks to the format are needed to improve attendance figures.

Donegal v Clare - 4 to 6k

Tyrone v Cork - 5 to 7k

Roscommon v Cavan - 5 to 7k

Derry v Westmeath - 4 to 6k

Galway v Armagh - 8 to 10k

Kerry v Louth - 4 to 6k

Monaghan v Meath - 3 to 5k

Dublin v Mayo - 14 to 16k"
Tyrone v Cork is a double header with Cork v Offaly hurling.
If there were 4, or 5 genuine contenders for Sam crowds would increase.
All the tweaks in the world won't get crowds till games, and results become unpredictable.
And the boring chess game that foitball has become doesn't help.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 11/06/2024 16:39:57    2550846

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Games this weekend should have attendance numbers like this if not a full review will be required by HQ to see what tweaks to the format are needed to improve attendance figures.

Donegal v Clare - 4 to 6k

Tyrone v Cork - 5 to 7k

Roscommon v Cavan - 5 to 7k

Derry v Westmeath - 4 to 6k

Galway v Armagh - 8 to 10k

Kerry v Louth - 4 to 6k

Monaghan v Meath - 3 to 5k

Dublin v Mayo - 14 to 16k"
14 to 16k at Dublin V Mayo. If that's the case it should final put to bed the myth that the Dubs don't mind travelling outside Croker and would love to be on the road.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1186 - 11/06/2024 16:47:42    2550848

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Tyrone v Cork is a double header with Cork v Offaly hurling.
If there were 4, or 5 genuine contenders for Sam crowds would increase.
All the tweaks in the world won't get crowds till games, and results become unpredictable.
And the boring chess game that foitball has become doesn't help."
None of the expected attendance figures I've posted would be described as great if lower than the above then the situation is worse than some pundits and Journalists reckon.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3492 - 11/06/2024 17:04:58    2550853

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "This obsession with the so called purity of the knock-out system is crazy and totally out of the line with other team sports throughout the world. It is remarkable that the GAA survived so long using such a limited system for its main competition. And the forced return of that system during Covid showed its limitations.

The only sport I can think of that uses pure knock-out for its most prestigious competition is Shinty's Camanachd Cup (typical attendance at the final is around 3,000). It also though has a full league running in parallel.

Teams can in theory win the Champions League in soccer having lost four group matches and three of the legs in the knock-out part. Would any team doing that be thought of as less of a Champion?

In theory a team can win the Cavan senior championship not having won any of their four matches in the Swiss Model league phase - in fact, in an extreme case they could lose all four. Would they be a lesser Champion if they can turn around and beat three higher seeds to win the championship.

If Derry or any another team can recover, having lost a provincial match and lost two group matches, and then beat four top teams to win the All Ireland, well done to them. That's a tougher path than many previous winners (e.g. Kerry 1997) under the knock-out system had to navigate."
Ah thank God all is not lost in Cavan. A good post. As you said it was miraculous that it lasted as long with the knock out system. Young lads today are not going to train all year for a one and done style Championship. For the younger players, the J1 would be more of a lure than a one game Championship. Of all the county players I meet and I meet quite a few through my job I have not heard one say they want to go back to any of the old systems. Players want to play games, lots of games. They also want to play for their club, thus their support for the split season. Remember it was the players who started the campaign for a split season. The Club Championship in Monaghan has really been lit up by our Round Robin style Championship. Every game is important. No onevexpexts every one of the 35 Sam Maguire games to be sell outs, but put together a lot of people get to see a lot of good games.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 387 - 11/06/2024 17:46:06    2550861

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "This obsession with the so called purity of the knock-out system is crazy and totally out of the line with other team sports throughout the world. It is remarkable that the GAA survived so long using such a limited system for its main competition. And the forced return of that system during Covid showed its limitations.

The only sport I can think of that uses pure knock-out for its most prestigious competition is Shinty's Camanachd Cup (typical attendance at the final is around 3,000). It also though has a full league running in parallel.

Teams can in theory win the Champions League in soccer having lost four group matches and three of the legs in the knock-out part. Would any team doing that be thought of as less of a Champion?

In theory a team can win the Cavan senior championship not having won any of their four matches in the Swiss Model league phase - in fact, in an extreme case they could lose all four. Would they be a lesser Champion if they can turn around and beat three higher seeds to win the championship.

If Derry or any another team can recover, having lost a provincial match and lost two group matches, and then beat four top teams to win the All Ireland, well done to them. That's a tougher path than many previous winners (e.g. Kerry 1997) under the knock-out system had to navigate."
Ah thank God all is not lost in Cavan. A good post. As you said it was miraculous that it lasted as long with the knock out system. Young lads today are not going to train all year for a one and done style Championship. For the younger players, the J1 would be more of a lure than a one game Championship. Of all the county players I meet and I meet quite a few through my job I have not heard one say they want to go back to any of the old systems. Players want to play games, lots of games. They also want to play for their club, thus their support for the split season. Remember it was the players who started the campaign for a split season. The Club Championship in Monaghan has really been lit up by our Round Robin style Championship. Every game is important. No onevexpexts every one of the 35 Sam Maguire games to be sell outs, but put together a lot of people get to see a lot of good games.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 387 - 11/06/2024 18:05:00    2550865

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Games this weekend should have attendance numbers like this if not a full review will be required by HQ to see what tweaks to the format are needed to improve attendance figures.

Donegal v Clare - 4 to 6k

Tyrone v Cork - 5 to 7k

Roscommon v Cavan - 5 to 7k

Derry v Westmeath - 4 to 6k

Galway v Armagh - 8 to 10k

Kerry v Louth - 4 to 6k

Monaghan v Meath - 3 to 5k

Dublin v Mayo - 14 to 16k"
Surely more than 5k will go to see Monaghan vMeath… It's a must win game for Meath and its at the perfect venue for both counties… if this game doesn't attract 8 to 10k then it's plainly obvious this ridiculous championship format is dead in the water..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 11/06/2024 19:41:59    2550876

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "The drop in attendances is because the jackeens and rhubarbs aren't attending en masse anymore.
Dubs fed up paying money for turkey shoots and Mayo gone down the pecking order not making AI Finals etc.
Dublin played 3 Leinster SFC games in Croke Park getting around 60k in total at them all.
Back in the day they'd have had that number at each of the 3.

Both Counties now only getting diehard GAA people and with games being part of a series of 3 no big day sunshine supporters or big eventers turning up.

The knockout out qualifiers didn't bring very big crowds except for when Mayo were in them.
As I pointed out previously the average per game in the 2022 Qualifiers was 9,200.
Average in group games last year 8,200.
This year to date 8,100.

I'd estimate that the 130,000 attendances to date at the Group games must have grossed the GAA at least €2.5m."
Agree to a point but there are many factors at play here. Dublin fans are probably bored at this stage. I mean who watches Dublin games as neutrals anyway? They are generally forgone conclusions and only worth watching until semi final stage.

I've seen a significant drop in Mayo support since that 2021 final no show v Tyrone. A lot of people lost faith that day and it will take a long time to reign that level of support again. I know loads who gave up their season tickets after that.

Cost of living is now insane. GAA have more games in a short period of time and people will pick and choose their games. Attending every game is not practical for most people.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11409 - 11/06/2024 21:34:39    2550890

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