National Forum

Players Transferring Clubs To Win Medals

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I see you're not answering the question either way. Trying to dodge it with just "If such a rule was brought in".

And your attitude of "look Johnny, you'd only be playing Junior B football with what's mainly a hurling club, so you shouldn't be put out much about it" is ludicrous.

Anyway, I'll try asking one more time:
Would you or would you not bring in a rule that a club can't accept transfers if they already have three or more adult teams, despite the effect it would have on people like Johnny here?"
Yes I would bring it in…. Johnny would only be keeping a local who came up through the ranks of his club off one of the teams… You seem to be mixing things up a bit with your example… has Ferns got 3 adult football teams as they are mainly a hurling club according to you which has no relevance..!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 31/08/2024 16:32:44    2567799

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Yes I would bring it in…. Johnny would only be keeping a local who came up through the ranks of his club off one of the teams… You seem to be mixing things up a bit with your example… has Ferns got 3 adult football teams as they are mainly a hurling club according to you which has no relevance..!"
They are a proper GAA club, true to the ethos of the GAA. They have the same number of football teams as hurling teams. 3.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 31/08/2024 21:23:44    2567821

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Yes I would bring it in…. Johnny would only be keeping a local who came up through the ranks of his club off one of the teams… You seem to be mixing things up a bit with your example… has Ferns got 3 adult football teams as they are mainly a hurling club according to you which has no relevance..!"
Yes, although Ferns have a clear preference for hurling, they also field three football teams. Please try to keep up.

Anyway, if you're so worried that local lads who have come up through the ranks of the club would miss out on games, here's another possible consequence of the rule you'd bring in -

Will take another of the clubs I mentioned as the example in this one. Let's say Shelmaliers (known locally as Shels).

Let's say a senior standard player genuinely moves into the area, it becomes his permanent residence, and he also satisfies all other "normal" conditions for a transfer. He wants to join the club there, and the club wants him. They're told "no, you can't take in a transfer, because you've already got three teams."

So the following year, Shels only enter two teams. Now there's no reason to stop this player transferring in, so he gets is transfer all right. But a consequence of that is now an entire team's worth of local lads who have come up through the ranks miss out on an entire year.

Considering that in your previous reply, you're so concerned about this type of local lad....would you still bring in the rule?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 31/08/2024 21:45:10    2567823

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yes, although Ferns have a clear preference for hurling, they also field three football teams. Please try to keep up.

Anyway, if you're so worried that local lads who have come up through the ranks of the club would miss out on games, here's another possible consequence of the rule you'd bring in -

Will take another of the clubs I mentioned as the example in this one. Let's say Shelmaliers (known locally as Shels).

Let's say a senior standard player genuinely moves into the area, it becomes his permanent residence, and he also satisfies all other "normal" conditions for a transfer. He wants to join the club there, and the club wants him. They're told "no, you can't take in a transfer, because you've already got three teams."

So the following year, Shels only enter two teams. Now there's no reason to stop this player transferring in, so he gets is transfer all right. But a consequence of that is now an entire team's worth of local lads who have come up through the ranks miss out on an entire year.

Considering that in your previous reply, you're so concerned about this type of local lad....would you still bring in the rule?"
Any club that would disband one of their entire teams to accommodate the arrival of one player would need to take a serious look at themselves…and so do you for coming up with such a hair brain scenario that just would never happen… Coming up with this just proves you are clutching at straws…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 01/09/2024 10:36:23    2567845

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The Ballygunner train keeps going. They kicked it up another gear today again against an up and coming Abbeyside team who took a heavy beating. It becomes tiresome listening to the talk of their size. There is more to it than that. Well trained and coached the same from the time they pick up a hurley. I played again them when they were a mediocre junior team. Not their fault the area grew. They have an abundance of players who are not making the team that would get in any club in the country. What do they do ? Don't transfer away. Stick with the club and wait their chance. Harry Ruddle and Billy O' Keefe two examples. Patrick Fitzgerald only now given a full game.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 01/09/2024 16:20:25    2567868

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Theres a lot of good players trapped in Clubs going nowhere due to parish rule. Is it right a very good player is stuck with a club playing junior that can hardly put out a team and get no more than 6 or 7 at training ?"
There are also a lot of players lost at big clubs due to grading them at a young age and even curing them from the panel at 13/14. A small junior clubs would love to take on the overspill.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 01/09/2024 21:20:42    2567914

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Any club that would disband one of their entire teams to accommodate the arrival of one player would need to take a serious look at themselves…and so do you for coming up with such a hair brain scenario that just would never happen… Coming up with this just proves you are clutching at straws…!"
Again, you're not answering the question.

Yes, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful of any club to withdraw their third team in any such situation. But that doesn't change the fact of how it could be a consequence of the rule you're advocating for.

This is not a case of me clutching at straws. It's a case of me being realistic and you avoiding the issue and not taking responsibility for the rule you want.

So, again - would you still bring in the rule now that this possible consequence has been pointed out to you?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 01/09/2024 21:28:24    2567916

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "There are also a lot of players lost at big clubs due to grading them at a young age and even curing them from the panel at 13/14. A small junior clubs would love to take on the overspill."
I do agree with you about underage. There are u12 lads in neighbouring clubs who aren't getting great coaching because their club have 40 or 50 lads at that age, and only the best are getting the attention. I'm sure many late developers at those clubs are getting lost to the games altogether.
Another negative is that some of these clubs are only training once a week, as they have good enough players to win at u12 just through sheer weight of numbers. Again not ideal for our county going forwards.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 02/09/2024 08:10:33    2567937

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Again, you're not answering the question.

Yes, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful of any club to withdraw their third team in any such situation. But that doesn't change the fact of how it could be a consequence of the rule you're advocating for.

This is not a case of me clutching at straws. It's a case of me being realistic and you avoiding the issue and not taking responsibility for the rule you want.

So, again - would you still bring in the rule now that this possible consequence has been pointed out to you?"
How many times do you need to hear YES… even though your possible consequence would never happen… if any club went that route in trying to get a transfer through then they should be banned…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 02/09/2024 10:10:31    2567961

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Replying To Viking66:  "I do agree with you about underage. There are u12 lads in neighbouring clubs who aren't getting great coaching because their club have 40 or 50 lads at that age, and only the best are getting the attention. I'm sure many late developers at those clubs are getting lost to the games altogether.
Another negative is that some of these clubs are only training once a week, as they have good enough players to win at u12 just through sheer weight of numbers. Again not ideal for our county going forwards."
Once a week isn't enough we're competing against rugby, soccer and swimming and music. Hurling and city all once a week. Young lads will kick ball all day because it's easier master and more players. Parents expect miracles from one hour training and a match a week

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 02/09/2024 10:19:30    2567963

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Replying To leitrim4sam:  "One of the main ethos behind the gaa is the parish rule is paramount. You play for where you live, where you come from.

The Jack McCarron transfer from Curries, a small junior club in Monaghan struggling for numbers, to Scotstown, a powerhouse in Monaghan football. Going for medals rather than playing and helping the club that took him on as a youngster. Now I don't know the ins and outs of it all. His father was a scotstown man and he may have wanted to play for them too and win senior champs like his father did.

Now I see these talented Offaly twins looking to leave their small junior club Ballyskenach- Killavilla to join Shinrone, lately Offaly senior hurling champions. Surely this is for exposure to a higher standard of hurling and to benefit them. Totally bereft of the gaa parish rule thinking.

What do posters think of this? Players leaving their home club, the club that accepted them, their friends, neighbours and community in search of winning titles with another club?

Any other examples in your county?

Best example I have against it is Richie Hogan, hurled with his local club Danesfort. Won an All Ireland club junior champ with danesfort before he won inter county senior champ with Kilkenny. Could have hurled for anyone.

Is this rife in the GAA??"
Ask the Newtown Blues in Louth. They've been poaching players for decades in Louth.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 02/09/2024 12:07:57    2567993

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "How many times do you need to hear YES… even though your possible consequence would never happen… if any club went that route in trying to get a transfer through then they should be banned…!"
All right then, one more chance for you to change your mind, when you consider another possible consequence. We'll stick with the same example.

Say this senior standard player has moved to the Shelmaliers area from Galway. He can't transfer to Shels because the club already fields three teams and the club decides, quite rightly, not to "pull" one of those teams to get around the transfer rule.

However, this player can't transfer to any other club in Wexford (or anywhere else) either, because he can't show proof of permanent residence anywhere else, and nor can he show any other relevant connection (as defined by the Rule Book).

Now his choices are to either give up playing altogether, or travel back and forth to Galway two or three times a week for training and matches.

You're now ostracising a senior standard player, perhaps with inter-county ambition, rather than some lad who just wants to play a bit of Junior B in his new home to help get to know a few people.

Would you still press ahead with your rule and tell this senior player that he shouldn't "be put out too much" either?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 02/09/2024 12:33:42    2567998

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "All right then, one more chance for you to change your mind, when you consider another possible consequence. We'll stick with the same example.

Say this senior standard player has moved to the Shelmaliers area from Galway. He can't transfer to Shels because the club already fields three teams and the club decides, quite rightly, not to "pull" one of those teams to get around the transfer rule.

However, this player can't transfer to any other club in Wexford (or anywhere else) either, because he can't show proof of permanent residence anywhere else, and nor can he show any other relevant connection (as defined by the Rule Book).

Now his choices are to either give up playing altogether, or travel back and forth to Galway two or three times a week for training and matches.

You're now ostracising a senior standard player, perhaps with inter-county ambition, rather than some lad who just wants to play a bit of Junior B in his new home to help get to know a few people.

Would you still press ahead with your rule and tell this senior player that he shouldn't "be put out too much" either?"
He should be allowed transfer into the nearest club to him who may struggle for numbers instead of a team who can call on maybe 60 players anyway… simple

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 02/09/2024 13:10:58    2568017

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "He should be allowed transfer into the nearest club to him who may struggle for numbers instead of a team who can call on maybe 60 players anyway… simple"
And now let's say there are five neighbouring parishes and the clubs in all of them fit your condition of "may struggle for numbers".

Now you're right back to square one, where a player transferring into a county could join any one of a number of clubs in that county, without living in any of those areas and without having any other relevant connection to them either.

That's exactly what you were trying to avoid in the first place (as with the Shane Walsh situation), but that's exactly what you've led us back to here.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 02/09/2024 14:14:23    2568034

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We had two players transfer into our club about 10 years ago....to win football medals.

And we had two (different) players transfer out of our club about 5 years ago.....to win hurling medals.

As the saying goes,what goes around comes around.

You should play for the club which represents the parish you live in.

Simple as.

Moyle (Tipperary) - Posts: 89 - 02/09/2024 16:44:16    2568075

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Replying To Moyle:  "We had two players transfer into our club about 10 years ago....to win football medals.

And we had two (different) players transfer out of our club about 5 years ago.....to win hurling medals.

As the saying goes,what goes around comes around.

You should play for the club which represents the parish you live in.

Simple as."
How did the 4 of them get on? Did they win medals?

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2085 - 02/09/2024 16:53:34    2568080

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "Ah ya might brush up on the auld geography there me good man."
Why so, my learned friend?

ExiledCuCu (Cavan) - Posts: 239 - 02/09/2024 22:03:20    2568132

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Replying To Bon:  "How did the 4 of them get on? Did they win medals?"
Yes and Yes.

Moyle (Tipperary) - Posts: 89 - 02/09/2024 23:28:39    2568139

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Replying To Viking66:  "I do agree with you about underage. There are u12 lads in neighbouring clubs who aren't getting great coaching because their club have 40 or 50 lads at that age, and only the best are getting the attention. I'm sure many late developers at those clubs are getting lost to the games altogether.
Another negative is that some of these clubs are only training once a week, as they have good enough players to win at u12 just through sheer weight of numbers. Again not ideal for our county going forwards."
To be fair to the larger clubs I'd have knowledge of in Dublin, they don't push young lads aside. Each team, whether it's the first, second or third team at an age group are all treated the same. Each with management teams who care about them, training etc.

I've seen it more lads be lost due to clubs not having numbers or the drive to structure things properly.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 54 - 03/09/2024 13:52:46    2568216

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Replying To ExiledCuCu:  "Why so, my learned friend?"
John and his father farm the other side of mullingar out the athlone road. Other than that you're nearly spot on.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 03/09/2024 14:05:05    2568220

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