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Replying To Viking66: "In fairness to him he didn't say that Wexford management should pick anyone from those clubs becauseof the clubs they played for. He made it clear it was a criticism of those clubs that they weren't producing hurlers good enough for intercounty. Rathnure certainly have a couple players good enough who were considered this year. 1 dropped out, and the other struggled last year with injury. Both are only 21 this year so hopefully they might play down the line, depending on their form.
I'm not sure what exactly he was talking about when he said something was scrapped in 2015. He didn't elaborate.
I think all his comments came from wanting to see Wexford do as well as possible going forwards, especially the Senior team. There didn't seem to be any bitterness in what he was saying. I don't think anyone who has been involved in the u8 - u12 age groups here in Wexford, who has any knowledge of how things are in other counties, would argue with what he is saying." 1st week of May to last week of September is 21 weeks, if they do one code per week, allowing that maybe 10 sessions will be games they are doing pitiful little!
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 28/06/2024 14:57:08
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Replying To WEXILE: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=wexford2012: "Nail on the head:
The season for most clubs is what, March to October, 7 months or 30 weeks.
So this is 1 hurling - 1 football training session (one of these may be a match)
So that's 30 hours hurling and 30 hours football per year.
Is this enough?
By comparison what are other successful counties doing?" I know of 3 clubs in our age group that didn't start back til around the beginning of May. And the same for u8s and u10s. There may have been more. And a good few clubs finish up in around September that I know of. We did a one night a week thing all over winter at the club, alternating between hurling and football. And encouraged as many of the lads (and their parents to bring them!) to do the A.S.H. programme as possible also. I know of other clubs who did the same. But not many. It was the 1st time we did, and it was very noticeable that by doing it lads were practicing at home or down the pitches on other evenings/nights also. The hurls weren't just put away for 6 months."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 28/06/2024 18:02:08
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Replying To wexford2012: "1st week of May to last week of September is 21 weeks, if they do one code per week, allowing that maybe 10 sessions will be games they are doing pitiful little!" There are around 20 organised games between the 2 codes also for each clubs u12s. And rising stars for the weaker lads, around 10 of these per season. Most of our named stronger lads have played up at u14 also this year at some time. So most weeks most of our lads are getting 2 training sessions and 2 games. Since the soccer finished.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 28/06/2024 18:12:32
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Heard this evening that there were two meetings this week to review coaching and hurling. One was Monday with 40 people looking at hurling chaired by Adrian Fenlon and a follow on meeting later in the week with every club chairman summoned to a meeting to look at club underage and some of the things raised here were brought up.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 186 - 28/06/2024 22:07:39
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I don't think our under-age is that bad, it 100% needs to be better and can be improved upon yet I don't think we're currently in a terrible position. This year's Minors were a good example, probably around the 6th best side in the country, were competitive enough with KK, Galway, Dublin, and Clare in general play although fell a bit short (Except against KK), better to be in the top tier of sides (Although not necessarily #1) at Minor level but at the same time, it's not as if we're a million miles off. Rather, our under-age sides are mirroring our Senior side; competitive enough to give the big boys a rattle on a going day (And maybe win) but fall short most of the time, feels like we're in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment, not catching up with the sides ahead of us but not exactly falling down to the teams below us
People bring up lack of training time at under-age level but I think it'd be more accurate to say our big problem is that we don't have an elite hurling culture. I know we shouldn't be using KK as the benchmark for everything but youngsters in KK have hurling on the brain, you only have to look at pictures of St Kieran's when the students are at Mass and all the hurls are left outside the church. An example of successful hurling culture in Wexford would be the Jacobs; hurling was always going to come naturally to Ursula, Helena, Rory, and Michael Jacob when you consider the role their parents would have played at home, in the local school, and at the club in Oulart itself, hurling was all they ever knew. Until we get to the stage where young players live and breathe hurling, we'll always be operating on the backfoot. And FWIW, I think the potential is there, I think there is enough desire for it in Wexford but this desire lies underneath the surface and the difficulty lies in bringing it out into the open
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 28/06/2024 22:15:09
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Replying To wexfordwin: "Heard this evening that there were two meetings this week to review coaching and hurling. One was Monday with 40 people looking at hurling chaired by Adrian Fenlon and a follow on meeting later in the week with every club chairman summoned to a meeting to look at club underage and some of the things raised here were brought up." It was Tuesday. All the club chairmen and CNO chairmen. I'm sure they were. Hopefully some agreed plan that all clubs will back will result from this.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 29/06/2024 08:13:44
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I don't think our under-age is that bad, it 100% needs to be better and can be improved upon yet I don't think we're currently in a terrible position. This year's Minors were a good example, probably around the 6th best side in the country, were competitive enough with KK, Galway, Dublin, and Clare in general play although fell a bit short (Except against KK), better to be in the top tier of sides (Although not necessarily #1) at Minor level but at the same time, it's not as if we're a million miles off. Rather, our under-age sides are mirroring our Senior side; competitive enough to give the big boys a rattle on a going day (And maybe win) but fall short most of the time, feels like we're in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment, not catching up with the sides ahead of us but not exactly falling down to the teams below us
People bring up lack of training time at under-age level but I think it'd be more accurate to say our big problem is that we don't have an elite hurling culture. I know we shouldn't be using KK as the benchmark for everything but youngsters in KK have hurling on the brain, you only have to look at pictures of St Kieran's when the students are at Mass and all the hurls are left outside the church. An example of successful hurling culture in Wexford would be the Jacobs; hurling was always going to come naturally to Ursula, Helena, Rory, and Michael Jacob when you consider the role their parents would have played at home, in the local school, and at the club in Oulart itself, hurling was all they ever knew. Until we get to the stage where young players live and breathe hurling, we'll always be operating on the backfoot. And FWIW, I think the potential is there, I think there is enough desire for it in Wexford but this desire lies underneath the surface and the difficulty lies in bringing it out into the open" The last line nails the issue. Plenty of people want successful Wexford and successful clubs but wouldn't bother their hole helping out (the classic "leave the children at the gate in case you might help out") or get out into their back garden to hurl with their children. Lots of young lads and girls never hold a hurl between 2 training sessions and you can see those who do a mile away.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 29/06/2024 14:59:58
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Replying To Viking66: "Listened to the podcast earlier this morning while I was in work. He cares alot about where we are heading, and while he used the words "coming out of primary school" he basically said what I've seen with my own two eyes. As a county we aren't doing as much as other counties in the u8 to u12 age groups, and therefore the standard of our lads when they get to secondary school/u14 development squad age is poorer. Some of this is made worse by most of our clubs being dual, but essentially if our lads in those critical age groups are only getting training once a week it means they are only getting 2 hours a month in football, and 2 hours a month in hurling. Its not enough.
In many other counties where clubs are predominantly one code or the other even if they are only training once a week they are getting double what our lads are getting. And if they train twice a week they are getting 4 times as much coaching/training in that particular code.
Yes, as our Counry Board/Games Development people have correctly identified, coaching has to be of a higher standard. But also quantity/volume of training/coaching has to be increased also, especially as we are a dual county. And therein lies another problem- we don't have enough volunteers at many clubs to do this extra work. Maybe some sort of targeted advertising campaign might help?" We have no shortage of volunteers, probably have an average of 5 per team.
But I think there's too many games, two a week (championship and rising stars) to make sure everyone gets a game. It would be fine if you were only hurling. And rising stars is essential to ensure everyone plays.
So there's generally just one training session a week split between hurling and football or alternate every week.
You couldn't go four times a week with U12s and U14s even though they are all in the field every evening.
The Seniors only train twice a week.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 29/06/2024 21:58:33
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Replying To WEX98: "We have no shortage of volunteers, probably have an average of 5 per team.
But I think there's too many games, two a week (championship and rising stars) to make sure everyone gets a game. It would be fine if you were only hurling. And rising stars is essential to ensure everyone plays.
So there's generally just one training session a week split between hurling and football or alternate every week.
You couldn't go four times a week with U12s and U14s even though they are all in the field every evening.
The Seniors only train twice a week." Our adults train twice a week also. 1 training session a week is just not enough at u12 though for teaching skills, especially for weaker lads and even more so for late starters. In the games the weaker/later lads might only get 1 or 2 touches, or 6 or 7 in rising stars , it's not going to bring them on much.
Your Rackard League team were excellent this year, great communicating and teamwork especially, but plenty of big lads who could hurl also. But you have more of a hurling culture than we do, more lads would be out hurling with their kids at 4 years old there than here.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 30/06/2024 12:44:44
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Replying To WEX98: "We have no shortage of volunteers, probably have an average of 5 per team.
But I think there's too many games, two a week (championship and rising stars) to make sure everyone gets a game. It would be fine if you were only hurling. And rising stars is essential to ensure everyone plays.
So there's generally just one training session a week split between hurling and football or alternate every week.
You couldn't go four times a week with U12s and U14s even though they are all in the field every evening.
The Seniors only train twice a week." Our adults train twice a week also. 1 training session a week is just not enough at u12 though for teaching skills, especially for weaker lads and even more so for late starters. In the games the weaker/later lads might only get 1 or 2 touches, or 6 or 7 in rising stars , it's not going to bring them on much.
Your Rackard League team were excellent this year, great communicating and teamwork especially, but plenty of big lads who could hurl also. But you have more of a hurling culture than we do, more lads would be out hurling with their kids at 4 years old there than here.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 30/06/2024 12:45:22
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "The last line nails the issue. Plenty of people want successful Wexford and successful clubs but wouldn't bother their hole helping out (the classic "leave the children at the gate in case you might help out") or get out into their back garden to hurl with their children. Lots of young lads and girls never hold a hurl between 2 training sessions and you can see those who do a mile away." Agree a million percent with your last line, I've had mothers say to me on a Friday after training, my little Johnny isn't improving and I ask outside of training when did little Johnny last hold a hurl and she'd replay ' 7 days ago at your training session, sure how else would he be playing hurling'.
The best kids in our club are out playing in their garden morning, noon and night with their brothers, father, uncles, mothers, sisters etc.
They have a hurl in their hand every single day and that is what makes a hurler. And if they are the youngest of 4 brothers trying to get a touch of the ball in the garden, fighting like a dog for it, even better.
As mentioned above it's a culture thing, there is a reason a place like Ballyhale has been producing All Ireland winning club teams since 1970s.
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 810 - 30/06/2024 13:14:36
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Replying To Past hurler: "Agree a million percent with your last line, I've had mothers say to me on a Friday after training, my little Johnny isn't improving and I ask outside of training when did little Johnny last hold a hurl and she'd replay ' 7 days ago at your training session, sure how else would he be playing hurling'.
The best kids in our club are out playing in their garden morning, noon and night with their brothers, father, uncles, mothers, sisters etc.
They have a hurl in their hand every single day and that is what makes a hurler. And if they are the youngest of 4 brothers trying to get a touch of the ball in the garden, fighting like a dog for it, even better.
As mentioned above it's a culture thing, there is a reason a place like Ballyhale has been producing All Ireland winning club teams since 1970s." Shamrocks were only formed in the 70s. They won 3 AIs in the 80s, but didn't win it again until 2007. I was talking to a lad there last year whose brother won AI intercounty titles and who is over one of their underage teams.
He told me that on account of not having the greatest numbers his clubs underage teams usually start out quite low in the divisions at u11, then they try to improve them with good coaching to try to get each group to at least div2 ideally by the time they are minor.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 30/06/2024 14:21:44
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Replying To Viking66: "Our adults train twice a week also. 1 training session a week is just not enough at u12 though for teaching skills, especially for weaker lads and even more so for late starters. In the games the weaker/later lads might only get 1 or 2 touches, or 6 or 7 in rising stars , it's not going to bring them on much.
Your Rackard League team were excellent this year, great communicating and teamwork especially, but plenty of big lads who could hurl also. But you have more of a hurling culture than we do, more lads would be out hurling with their kids at 4 years old there than here." That's my point, one training session a week isn't enough despite the group being together 3 times a week. Its actually one training session every two weeks, alternating between hurling and football. Just too many games.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 30/06/2024 18:07:33
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Replying To WEX98: "That's my point, one training session a week isn't enough despite the group being together 3 times a week. Its actually one training session every two weeks, alternating between hurling and football. Just too many games." Why can't you train twice and play 2 games? 4 nites a week? It's only for the summer? Also you surely don't need players playing up with the numbers you have?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 30/06/2024 18:52:39
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Replying To Past hurler: "Agree a million percent with your last line, I've had mothers say to me on a Friday after training, my little Johnny isn't improving and I ask outside of training when did little Johnny last hold a hurl and she'd replay ' 7 days ago at your training session, sure how else would he be playing hurling'.
The best kids in our club are out playing in their garden morning, noon and night with their brothers, father, uncles, mothers, sisters etc.
They have a hurl in their hand every single day and that is what makes a hurler. And if they are the youngest of 4 brothers trying to get a touch of the ball in the garden, fighting like a dog for it, even better.
As mentioned above it's a culture thing, there is a reason a place like Ballyhale has been producing All Ireland winning club teams since 1970s." I know that at my club, the school had a very good Rackard League team recently and the best lads on it were sons of lads who would've hurled Senior for long time
These young lads aren't good because of genetics though, it's because they'd tag along with their fathers to Senior training sessions and then all the young lads would go off and hurl between themselves
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 30/06/2024 21:23:33
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I know that at my club, the school had a very good Rackard League team recently and the best lads on it were sons of lads who would've hurled Senior for long time
These young lads aren't good because of genetics though, it's because they'd tag along with their fathers to Senior training sessions and then all the young lads would go off and hurl between themselves" Same thing, they have the hurl in their hands most evenings of the week outside of their own training.
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 810 - 30/06/2024 21:51:22
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Replying To Past hurler: "Same thing, they have the hurl in their hands most evenings of the week outside of their own training." That's the same with most of our u12 lads now. They are trying to keep up with each other too in a way.
The winter training, even though it was only once a week, helped keep them interested too. We will do it again next winter too.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 30/06/2024 22:07:39
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Replying To Viking66: "That's the same with most of our u12 lads now. They are trying to keep up with each other too in a way.
The winter training, even though it was only once a week, helped keep them interested too. We will do it again next winter too." There is no magic formula to hurling.
The difference in a kid playing hurling 14 hours a week (between club, school, siblings/friends in garden, by himself, hurling only parish) v a kid only hurling 1 hour a week (club training, dual club).
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 810 - 30/06/2024 22:50:21
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I m involved with underage teams . Most dual clubs possibly 80% will concentrate mostly on hurling . At least 2 to 1 sessions wise dome even more the morectrafitionsl hurling clubs plus some if rhe bigger clubs that wee once football strongholds are leaning more towards hurling now .
No matter how often we preach it the boys they need to train every night we are out and have the hurl in their hands every day and practice outside trainingto improve their touch stiking etc only 10 to 20% of them would , 40% to 50% might every 2nd or third day the rest only at training and then only train 50% of the time . . Which can at times be really frustrating as a coach they can disrupt training and reduce the intensity and quality of a session . If anyone here thinks its acceptable to split them . Our hands are tied for obvious reasons . There can be a huge difference in the squad between fitness ,touch , skilll levels striking commitment and general interest . It's hard and frustrating at times to come up with sessions that will challenge all levels within the 2 year age groups . But we try. And will keep trying .
Is it the parents fault us it the child's fault is it the coaches fault . Is it the structures within the county , is there enough hurling fir them in the schools, club,,organised tournaments, skills based competitions, or is it all the above plus more ,
Where dies the love of hurling cone from .
From my experience the best hurlers In wexford are mostly the best sportsmen overall .
The problem We have to solve is hiw to raise the profile of hurling within the county to make it the number 1 choice rather than a back up sport where they only commit fully when in their teens where they may have missed out on the development of their touch due to other preferences in the age 7 to.13 /14
Identifying problems is a lot easier than solving them.
Definitely running skills based competions is one way where we set targets and benchmarks to improve their touch etc . But if training is sporadic and poorly attended any time we have good numbers we try get as much hurling in as possible. Over the winter would be ideal time for this . Barcthe problem of standing waiting . Possiblly indoor multi club skills tournaments might be an option.
Ideally I would love to give the players a skill every night they train t come back to next session and show hiw they gave improved it .
Can we put a love of hurling into a child or do they need to have it themselves . Certainly parents are the single biggest influence on a child's development .
Would a parent and child sessions in the early years be a good start whether they ever hurled or not .??. It might just spark their interest and realise how hard utbus to master the skills and that they need to spend a little time with their child outside training to help.their development.
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 301 - 01/07/2024 08:47:37
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I know that at my club, the school had a very good Rackard League team recently and the best lads on it were sons of lads who would've hurled Senior for long time
These young lads aren't good because of genetics though, it's because they'd tag along with their fathers to Senior training sessions and then all the young lads would go off and hurl between themselves" And that is the key.
The amount of lads I know who think brinjgn kids to training once or twice a week is enough for them then wonder why other kids doing the opposite are passing them by as the years progress is unreal, and they usually end up complaining about favouritism or something.
And it's the same here, obsessing about trainings times etc etc. Of course it's important but it's what happens outside those training sessions that makes the difference, all the time.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 01/07/2024 09:13:14
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