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Replying To Whammo86: "Even if you don't want to change the football competitions you could have a season that looked something like this:
4th February All Ireland club football final
11th February All Ireland club hurling final
18th February NFL round 1
25th February NFL round 2
4th March Club break 1
11th March Club break 2
18th March NFL round 3
25th March Provincial round 1
1st April Club break 3
8th April Club break 4
15th April NFL round 4
22nd April Provincial round 2
30th April Club break 5
6th May Club break 6
13th May NFL round 5
20th May Provincial semifinals
27th May Club break 7
3rd June Club break 8
10th June NFL round 6
17th June NFL round 7
24th June Club break 9
1st July Club break 10
8th July NFL finals
15th July Provincial Finals
22nd July Break
29th July All Ireland Group round 1
5th August All Ireland Group round 2
12th August Break
19th August All Ireland Group round 3
25th August Preliminary Quarterfinals
1st September Quarterfinals
8th September break
15th September All Ireland Semifinal
22nd September All Ireland hurling final
29th September All Ireland final
Club the rest of the way with counties having a bit of flexibility to start once they are out of the All Irelands
For a Tailteann team that could be as early as 5th August.
That's a better season for the intercounty game as well as the club game. Starts 3 weeks later, ends 9 weeks later, league being played right up to mid June. Better schedule for Provincial championships. Better clarity over what teams need to do to qualify through the league. Club games can be played around these other intercounty fixtures with them not really being do or die.
Why is this not better than what we have?" Jeepers, this is as if all the problems that led to the split season have been forgotten about.
County players being unavailable to their clubs due to the demands of county manager, facilitating dual players, certainty of when club championships start are all issues that you have brought back into play.
Players at club and county level are all in favour of the split season, as polls from the GPA and county board reps have shown.
Is it perfect, no but it's a huge step forward on what went before.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 478 - 30/12/2023 12:24:11
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Replying To Roger: "Jeepers, this is as if all the problems that led to the split season have been forgotten about.
County players being unavailable to their clubs due to the demands of county manager, facilitating dual players, certainty of when club championships start are all issues that you have brought back into play.
Players at club and county level are all in favour of the split season, as polls from the GPA and county board reps have shown.
Is it perfect, no but it's a huge step forward on what went before." "Players at club and county level are *all in favour of the split season"
Enough said.
* the vast vast majority anyway.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1944 - 30/12/2023 13:01:08
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Replying To Roger: "Jeepers, this is as if all the problems that led to the split season have been forgotten about.
County players being unavailable to their clubs due to the demands of county manager, facilitating dual players, certainty of when club championships start are all issues that you have brought back into play.
Players at club and county level are all in favour of the split season, as polls from the GPA and county board reps have shown.
Is it perfect, no but it's a huge step forward on what went before." Yeah I think people misdiagnosed the issue that led to the split season it was that the qualifiers and teams not knowing when they'd be out and the knockout nature of the championship meaning managers were under more pressure to have control of their players.
The first thing that needed to be done was get rid of the qualifiers and then see if a split season was needed.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 30/12/2023 13:02:17
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Replying To Whammo86: "That framing isn't a fair reflection of things. The National football league is linked to the All Ireland and club's don't have access to their players in that time." The failure to complete club championships within the calendar year is an argument for decoupling the Allianz Football League from the All-Ireland. The All-Ireland club championships can then be completed in February and March, with a return of the traditional St Patrick's Day finals.
All-Ireland qualification would then have be through the provincial championships. 2 Connacht finalists, 2 Munster finalists, 4 Leinster semi-finalists and 4 Ulster semi-finalists should qualify. The Tailteann winner from the previous year should also qualify.
Depending on the Tailteann Cup winners progression in their provincial championship, there would be 3 or 4 places remaining. One option could be ranking counties 1 to 32 based on previous year's championship performance. If two or more counties are level on championship performance, they could keep going back to a previous year as tie breaker for a clean 1 to 32 ranking. The highest ranked counties not to qualify through their province can then be granted a wildcard qualification.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 30/12/2023 13:31:54
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: ""Players at club and county level are *all in favour of the split season"
Enough said.
* the vast vast majority anyway." Ok but they are likely comparing it to what was rather than what could be.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 30/12/2023 13:33:42
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Replying To legendzxix: "The failure to complete club championships within the calendar year is an argument for decoupling the Allianz Football League from the All-Ireland. The All-Ireland club championships can then be completed in February and March, with a return of the traditional St Patrick's Day finals.
All-Ireland qualification would then have be through the provincial championships. 2 Connacht finalists, 2 Munster finalists, 4 Leinster semi-finalists and 4 Ulster semi-finalists should qualify. The Tailteann winner from the previous year should also qualify.
Depending on the Tailteann Cup winners progression in their provincial championship, there would be 3 or 4 places remaining. One option could be ranking counties 1 to 32 based on previous year's championship performance. If two or more counties are level on championship performance, they could keep going back to a previous year as tie breaker for a clean 1 to 32 ranking. The highest ranked counties not to qualify through their province can then be granted a wildcard qualification." I'd say Provincials and All Ireland club played alongside a decoupled National league would work.
I'd have Provincials moving forward to an All Ireland where teams are in 2 groups of 8 and qualification is based on the previous season's All Ireland finish.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 30/12/2023 13:58:55
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Replying To Whammo86: "I'd say Provincials and All Ireland club played alongside a decoupled National league would work.
I'd have Provincials moving forward to an All Ireland where teams are in 2 groups of 8 and qualification is based on the previous season's All Ireland finish." The top third of counties in a province can advance to the All-Ireland Championship. That's 2/5 Connacht, 2/6 Munster, 3/9 Ulster and 4/12 Leinster. Each province could additionally get one extra spot. That's 2+1/5 Connacht, 2+1/6 Munster, 3+1/9 Ulster and 4+1/12 Leinster.
The Tailteann Cup then being the 16th spot. If the Tailteann winner qualifies through their provincial championship, their province could gain an additional spot.
Connacht and Munster should be a matter of a third placed playoff. Ulster seeing semi-finalists advance. Leinster also seeing semi-finalists advance.
If a Leinster and/or Ulster losing provincial quarter-finalist were to gain a wild card qualification, it can be based off of previous year's championship rankings.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 30/12/2023 19:10:50
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Replying To Whammo86: "The intercounty season is scheduled for 27 weeks.
28th Jan to 28th July. The issue is the intercounty season. It doesn't matter that a team can only play a max of 19 matches, club championship can't be played in this time.
I don't think Provincial and All Ireland club should be considered when comparing the balance of fixtures between the 2 levels as a minority of teams play in those competitions." There's absolutely nothing stopping a county from playing some of its club championship before 28th July if its inter-county teams have already been knocked out.
We started our club championships in Wexford in late June this year. We didn't have to wait around until the All-Ireland Finals were played during July.
With all due respect, I think you're looking for problems, and not finding solutions.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2615 - 30/12/2023 19:50:15
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Replying To Whammo86: "The intercounty season is scheduled for 27 weeks.
28th Jan to 28th July. The issue is the intercounty season. It doesn't matter that a team can only play a max of 19 matches, club championship can't be played in this time.
I don't think Provincial and All Ireland club should be considered when comparing the balance of fixtures between the 2 levels as a minority of teams play in those competitions." The Kerry Senior Hurling Championship was started in the middle of June and was finished on the first weekend of August.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 30/12/2023 21:37:40
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Replying To legendzxix: "The Kerry Senior Hurling Championship was started in the middle of June and was finished on the first weekend of August." That's a bit easier to do when there are only 9 teams and a total of 14 matches played.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 30/12/2023 22:49:51
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Replying To WanPintWin: "That's a bit easier to do when there are only 9 teams and a total of 14 matches played." It still consists of 3 group rounds and 3 knockout rounds. 6 rounds in total.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 31/12/2023 09:24:37
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Replying To legendzxix: "It still consists of 3 group rounds and 3 knockout rounds. 6 rounds in total." They Kerry senior hurlers were finished with the Joe McDonagh in mid-May, so they were able to run it off before their club football championship started. Galway's hurlers weren't out of the championship until almost 2 months later.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 31/12/2023 10:01:03
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There's absolutely nothing stopping a county from playing some of its club championship before 28th July if its inter-county teams have already been knocked out.
We started our club championships in Wexford in late June this year. We didn't have to wait around until the All-Ireland Finals were played during July.
With all due respect, I think you're looking for problems, and not finding solutions." I don't know, maybe. I can see where you're coming from.
The thing is even if a county can start early and I agree that is a good thing, they still can't guarantee those extra weeks at the start of the season when they are formulating competitions.
You look at your own county, they are having to reduce their championships to fit into the time frame that guarantees that they could run them off.
They can't provide an 8 week championship in each code any longer. Maybe that's not an issue but it feels like a backwards step to me.
You also have a discussion going on in your county about whether players in their last of minor should be eligible for adult competition. You have people talking about small clubs struggling to field and retention of players being an issue that they are facing. Maybe that goes hand in hand with having a better programme of games for club players.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 31/12/2023 13:08:50
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Again, the GAA have invested in the split season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to the end of July. Counties are not doing their part by failing to ensure that the club championships are completed in the calendar year.
There appears to be three options:
1) The status quo.
2) Counties finding an agreeable solution to completing the club championships in the calendar year.
3) Decoupling the Allianz Football League from the All-Ireland, thus allowing the All-Ireland club championships to be completed in February and March.
The old qualifiers would possibly have to return for 3):
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2:
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Each Qualifier Round should apply a seeding based on the previous year's championship performance.
The All-Ireland group stage would consist of 8 provincial finalists, 1 Tailteann winner and 7 Q3 winners (16 teams). In the event that the Tailteann winner happens to qualify through their province as well, a bye from a qualifier round can be granted where appropriate based on the championship ranking from the previous year.
QUALIFYING ROUND EXAMPLES WITH THE TAILTEANN WINNER EXEMPT:
Example 1- Tailteann winner excluded after first round provincial loss.
Qualifier Round 1:
2 of the lowest 7 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (2 teams)
Qualifier Round 2: Tailteann winner excluded after se
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 5 provincial first round losers and 1 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Example 2- Tailteann winner excluded after second round provincial loss.
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2: With Tailteann winner exempt from qualifiers, one county would get a bye to Q3.
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (18 teams after 1 bye to Q3 and Tailteann Cup winner exemption.)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists, 1 bye from Q2 and 9 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Example 3- Tailteann winner excluded after semi-final provincial loss in Leinster or Ulster.
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2:
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3: With Tailteann winner exempt from qualifiers, one county would get a bye to the All-Ireland group stage.
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (12 teams after 1 bye to group stage and Tailteann Cup winner exemption.)
New York are a conundrum for the above plans. One workable option is for New York to be excluded from provincial championships. New York could receive a home preliminary round fixture against a third placed team from the Tailteann Cup. This way New York are guaranteed one home game.
The Tailteann Cup final could be held on the day before the All-Ireland final. This way the Tailteann Cup can be run more in parallel to the All-Ireland championship. The Tailteann semi-finals can be curtain raisers for the All-Ireland semi-finals. The All-Ireland Junior Football Final can be curtain raiser to the Tailteann Cup final.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 31/12/2023 15:31:40
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Replying To legendzxix: "Again, the GAA have invested in the split season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to the end of July. Counties are not doing their part by failing to ensure that the club championships are completed in the calendar year.
There appears to be three options:
1) The status quo.
2) Counties finding an agreeable solution to completing the club championships in the calendar year.
3) Decoupling the Allianz Football League from the All-Ireland, thus allowing the All-Ireland club championships to be completed in February and March.
The old qualifiers would possibly have to return for 3):
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2:
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Each Qualifier Round should apply a seeding based on the previous year's championship performance.
The All-Ireland group stage would consist of 8 provincial finalists, 1 Tailteann winner and 7 Q3 winners (16 teams). In the event that the Tailteann winner happens to qualify through their province as well, a bye from a qualifier round can be granted where appropriate based on the championship ranking from the previous year.
QUALIFYING ROUND EXAMPLES WITH THE TAILTEANN WINNER EXEMPT:
Example 1- Tailteann winner excluded after first round provincial loss.
Qualifier Round 1:
2 of the lowest 7 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (2 teams)
Qualifier Round 2: Tailteann winner excluded after se
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 5 provincial first round losers and 1 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Example 2- Tailteann winner excluded after second round provincial loss.
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2: With Tailteann winner exempt from qualifiers, one county would get a bye to Q3.
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (18 teams after 1 bye to Q3 and Tailteann Cup winner exemption.)
Qualifier Round 3:
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists, 1 bye from Q2 and 9 Q2 winners. (14 teams.)
Example 3- Tailteann winner excluded after semi-final provincial loss in Leinster or Ulster.
Qualifier Round 1:
4 of the lowest 8 first round losers from the four provinces, based on championship performance in the previous year. (4 teams)
Qualifier Round 2:
2 Connacht semi-finalists, 2 Munster semi-finalists, 4 Leinster quarter-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists, 4 provincial first round losers and 2 Q1 winners. (20 teams)
Qualifier Round 3: With Tailteann winner exempt from qualifiers, one county would get a bye to the All-Ireland group stage.
2 Leinster semi-finalists, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 10 Q2 winners. (12 teams after 1 bye to group stage and Tailteann Cup winner exemption.)
New York are a conundrum for the above plans. One workable option is for New York to be excluded from provincial championships. New York could receive a home preliminary round fixture against a third placed team from the Tailteann Cup. This way New York are guaranteed one home game.
The Tailteann Cup final could be held on the day before the All-Ireland final. This way the Tailteann Cup can be run more in parallel to the All-Ireland championship. The Tailteann semi-finals can be curtain raisers for the All-Ireland semi-finals. The All-Ireland Junior Football Final can be curtain raiser to the Tailteann Cup final." Ahhh me head is reeling....
Leave it as it is, its far simpler.
What's the big problem with 12 football and 6 hurling Clubs having to finish the Club Championships in January?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1944 - 31/12/2023 16:14:18
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ahhh me head is reeling....
Leave it as it is, its far simpler.
What's the big problem with 12 football and 6 hurling Clubs having to finish the Club Championships in January?" It can be left this way but intercounty players getting to the All-Ireland club finals are playing all year round. If the All-Ireland club championships get completed in December, those can intercounty players can enjoy some well deserved weeks off before the league starts.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 31/12/2023 20:30:01
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ahhh me head is reeling....
Leave it as it is, its far simpler.
What's the big problem with 12 football and 6 hurling Clubs having to finish the Club Championships in January?" Happy new year! The previous format suggestion was unnecessarily complicated.
Connacht Championship:
1 group of 4. Top 2 into Connacht final.
Munster Championship:
1 group of 4. Top 2 into Munster final.
Leinster Championship:
2 groups of 4. Top 2 into Leinster semi-finals.
Ulster Championship:
2 groups of 4. Top 2 into Ulster semi-finals.
All-Ireland series:
4 provincial winners, 1 Tailteann winner and a third of the counties from each province.
Connacht - 1 provincial winner plus 2 counties. (3)
Munster - 1 provincial winner plus 2 counties. (3)
Leinster - 1 provincial winner plus 4 counties. (5)
Ulster - 1 provincial winner plus 3 counties. (4)
Connacht/Munster Conference:
1 group of 4. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
Leinster/Ulster Conference:
1 group of 4. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8274 - 01/01/2024 08:38:22
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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't know, maybe. I can see where you're coming from.
The thing is even if a county can start early and I agree that is a good thing, they still can't guarantee those extra weeks at the start of the season when they are formulating competitions.
You look at your own county, they are having to reduce their championships to fit into the time frame that guarantees that they could run them off.
They can't provide an 8 week championship in each code any longer. Maybe that's not an issue but it feels like a backwards step to me.
You also have a discussion going on in your county about whether players in their last of minor should be eligible for adult competition. You have people talking about small clubs struggling to field and retention of players being an issue that they are facing. Maybe that goes hand in hand with having a better programme of games for club players." You're wrong in three of the statements you make about things here in Wexford.
And the fact that you're obviously so misinformed makes me disregard your closing shot about how we could offer a better games programme.
Happy New Year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2615 - 01/01/2024 16:46:26
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Replying To Pikeman96: "You're wrong in three of the statements you make about things here in Wexford.
And the fact that you're obviously so misinformed makes me disregard your closing shot about how we could offer a better games programme.
Happy New Year." You're right all my statements were playing fast and loose with the truth. I apologise and happy to acknowledge when I'm wrong.
Rightly or wrongly my perception of Wexford GAA is that they look to be trying to do the right things and it is tough for them as a dual county. Their championship structure particularly with the amendment to the numbers getting out of the group is a strong one, I'd think it'd be a good fit for Antrim's football championship for instance also. I guess your chairman is happy that 16 weeks is doable in the current calendar but it is very tight really and it'd be a shame if county boards couldn't provide that sort of championship program for their teams because of the footprint of the inter-county game on the calendar.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 04/01/2024 15:52:41
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Replying To Whammo86: "You're right all my statements were playing fast and loose with the truth. I apologise and happy to acknowledge when I'm wrong.
Rightly or wrongly my perception of Wexford GAA is that they look to be trying to do the right things and it is tough for them as a dual county. Their championship structure particularly with the amendment to the numbers getting out of the group is a strong one, I'd think it'd be a good fit for Antrim's football championship for instance also. I guess your chairman is happy that 16 weeks is doable in the current calendar but it is very tight really and it'd be a shame if county boards couldn't provide that sort of championship program for their teams because of the footprint of the inter-county game on the calendar." We are getting an extra couple of weeks off Leinster. Maybe 3 depending on the draw. It will have to do and we are very grateful. There are a number of reasons why we voted for minors not playing adult it wasn't all about fixtures.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 04/01/2024 22:17:50
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