National Forum

Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "I.think a cohort of people in the 50+ age group have a nostalgic attachment to the 'shape' football was played in, pre Tyrone '03 and Donegal '12. Football fans who carry this nostalgic attachment, are somewhat offended seeing 29 players between the goal and the 70 yard line, trying to hold possession and recycle until weaving a chance. They're even more irritated and 'quiet' watching intercounty players kicking balls and handpassing back and over outside 'the contact zone' for what can seem like an eternity on some occasions. For those folk, they're not looking at scoreboards to see if matches are any good. They're trying to reconcile the game they knew with the game they're attending/not attending now, and many are struggling with that reconciliation."
I am not saying it's all perfect. I was in Castlebar this year when as soon as the opening play developed the 14 Derry players turned and ran back inside their own half. That was a tight game to watch. But not every game is dull and boring.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 18/07/2024 11:01:47    2559864

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Replying To Greengrass:  "It's all a matter of personal taste. I'm going to matches since the early seventies. I've been to 56 All Ireland senior football finals including replays. I've seen all the great teams and players on their biggest days over the last 52 years. Throughout all of that time it has been a national pastime to moan about football. The great Kerry team and the football they played was termed basketball. People complained about the amount of hand passes at that time too. Have a look at the attendances in the eighties and nineties. They were way down on what they are today. All sports evolve . Gaelic football is no different. Moaning about Gaelic football is a tradition. You're just maintaining that tradition. If you don't like it then don't look at it. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Armagh v Kerry in my local and I thoroughly enjoyed being at Galway v Donegal. What a weekend of football it was."
Great Post.Waste of time trying to reason with that lad. Maybe when they take him out of his diaper. If the same drivel comes out of that end that comes out of his mouth then he will be wearing it for another while. Obviously he has no clue of the stuff that we watched in the sixties and seventies. No disrespect to the players of that era but some of the games I watched were bordering on criminal with the thuggery involved. Scores were at a premium with a free every minute. In the past week I was in Croke Park for 4 games,attended 1 Senior, 2 Reserve and a Minor game in the County and I thoroughly enjoyed all 8 games. I enjoyed watching the Galway 3 in a row team of the sixties, the 6 in a row Dubs and have no doubt I will enjoy the Galway/Armagh game every bit as much. After that I will go to as many County Senior,Intermediate and Junior County Championships as possible. Some will be better than others but in each one, there will be 30+ young gaelic footballers on the field thoroughly enjoying playing for the parish. The game has evolved and will evolve and us true fans will evolve with it. That garsun in Cavan will likely continue to "watch" it on the Radio and dream of the Poli Grounds.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 18/07/2024 11:02:42    2559867

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Lads you're wasting your time. If he said something was black and it turned out it was white he'd say "I told you it was white". Everything exists to prove him right. It's bizarre

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12199 - 18/07/2024 11:41:54    2559874

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "No matter how many review committees are set up things won't change until the thought process of coaches change…. Your own County going down the road of bringing in an outside coach to take over your county youth teams is a woeful move for any County board to allow happen… the same guy who walked out on the senior team a few months ago even makes it more laughable… Why are Louth throwing good money after bad on a guy like this… He is there for one thing and it's not for the good of Louths GAA future.. that's a guarantee .. Are you genuinely happy with this appointment…?"
Interesting post. I'll get back to you on it later.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 18/07/2024 11:46:57    2559877

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I am not saying it's all perfect. I was in Castlebar this year when as soon as the opening play developed the 14 Derry players turned and ran back inside their own half. That was a tight game to watch. But not every game is dull and boring."
I totally agree with you Flaker that every game is not poor to watch but you have to admit most of them are… The game you mention is a prime example and there's many… Even the sight of Kerry last week all scurrying back into defence when they lost the ball was terrible when you think of the way Kerry always played the game… and this game wasn't the worst to. watch in fairness…. The big problem I have with modern day football is that teams are setting up more ( coached ) to not lose a game rather than being set up ( the way they once were ) to win the game…. It's all negative thinking and tactics.. This is the way I see it and I know a lot of people agree with this view…. If you don't Flaker that's fine and you are entitled to your view and I respect that…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 11:54:56    2559879

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Great Post.Waste of time trying to reason with that lad. Maybe when they take him out of his diaper. If the same drivel comes out of that end that comes out of his mouth then he will be wearing it for another while. Obviously he has no clue of the stuff that we watched in the sixties and seventies. No disrespect to the players of that era but some of the games I watched were bordering on criminal with the thuggery involved. Scores were at a premium with a free every minute. In the past week I was in Croke Park for 4 games,attended 1 Senior, 2 Reserve and a Minor game in the County and I thoroughly enjoyed all 8 games. I enjoyed watching the Galway 3 in a row team of the sixties, the 6 in a row Dubs and have no doubt I will enjoy the Galway/Armagh game every bit as much. After that I will go to as many County Senior,Intermediate and Junior County Championships as possible. Some will be better than others but in each one, there will be 30+ young gaelic footballers on the field thoroughly enjoying playing for the parish. The game has evolved and will evolve and us true fans will evolve with it. That garsun in Cavan will likely continue to "watch" it on the Radio and dream of the Poli Grounds."
Is the Poli grounds somewhere in Monaghan..? The county that has no All Irelands and never will have..!!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 11:57:39    2559880

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "So you don't know where you read it and you don't care if the articles are lies as long as it backs up your point. Have you any idea of how stupid you look making that point?

There is a problem with with clubs throwing big money to outside coaches. I have seen that first hand. But not all outside coaches are bad. I am an outside coach currently. I claim driving expenses and nothing more and have had a successful time in the past 2 years. Do you consider a coach who travels 45 mins in his own county to take a team an outside coach. There are different levels of outside coaches. It's not black and white. Ask Galway people their opinion on their outside coach from 98 to the early 2000s. It's not always a bad thing."
Funny how you picked out the last outside coach ever to win an All Ireland… all of a quarter of a century ago..? Just proves my point

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 12:00:38    2559881

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Yawn!!! Wash, rinse, repeat."
I'd say you could do with a wash right enough

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 12:02:01    2559883

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Funny how you picked out the last outside coach ever to win an All Ireland… all of a quarter of a century ago..? Just proves my point"
My overall point was towards club managers. You ignored everything else i said. Have you a problem with a club appointing an outside coach even within the same county? If you do then you really haven't a clue how things work.

Also i will ask you again where did you read the stats that 80 per cent of managers are outsiders? It's amazing that something you used to frame and argument was so vital you can't remember where you saw it. It's almost as if the article never existed in the first place.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 18/07/2024 12:16:50    2559886

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "My overall point was towards club managers. You ignored everything else i said. Have you a problem with a club appointing an outside coach even within the same county? If you do then you really haven't a clue how things work.

Also i will ask you again where did you read the stats that 80 per cent of managers are outsiders? It's amazing that something you used to frame and argument was so vital you can't remember where you saw it. It's almost as if the article never existed in the first place."
As I said the percentage used in the article is irrelevant… it's the point that they shouldn't be used in the first place especially been paid.. and it is the same for a person within the county.. he is not coaching another club for the good of his health you know..!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 13:00:09    2559900

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Great Post.Waste of time trying to reason with that lad. Maybe when they take him out of his diaper. If the same drivel comes out of that end that comes out of his mouth then he will be wearing it for another while. Obviously he has no clue of the stuff that we watched in the sixties and seventies. No disrespect to the players of that era but some of the games I watched were bordering on criminal with the thuggery involved. Scores were at a premium with a free every minute. In the past week I was in Croke Park for 4 games,attended 1 Senior, 2 Reserve and a Minor game in the County and I thoroughly enjoyed all 8 games. I enjoyed watching the Galway 3 in a row team of the sixties, the 6 in a row Dubs and have no doubt I will enjoy the Galway/Armagh game every bit as much. After that I will go to as many County Senior,Intermediate and Junior County Championships as possible. Some will be better than others but in each one, there will be 30+ young gaelic footballers on the field thoroughly enjoying playing for the parish. The game has evolved and will evolve and us true fans will evolve with it. That garsun in Cavan will likely continue to "watch" it on the Radio and dream of the Poli Grounds."
Great post. I couldn't agree more.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 18/07/2024 13:15:46    2559903

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Some comparing football with hurling. Some scoring similarities but totally different sports in terms of skills, speed, physicality, spectators engagement. Soccer has innovated over the years with the technology of the football. Hurl to sliotar a way different momentum than kicking a gaelic football. If only a gaelic football could be designed for a bit more distance and accuracy from kicking but would nearly literally fall to the ground from the different momentum of a handpass. Would nearly penalise handpassing and encourage more kicking without too much extra work for match officials.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 18/07/2024 13:51:57    2559913

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Great post. I couldn't agree more."
2 who have not got a clue… Probably never went to a GAA match in their lives

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 14:06:42    2559916

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "As I said the percentage used in the article is irrelevant… it's the point that they shouldn't be used in the first place especially been paid.. and it is the same for a person within the county.. he is not coaching another club for the good of his health you know..!"
The article doesn't exist and if it does your numbers are made up. The article you reference is very relevant if you are making stuff up.

As for your second point. You are literally clueless as to what goes on behind the scenes. I coach another club 45 mins away. I don't live in Mayo by the way but i also don't coach my adopted club where i live. The club i played for is a senior club who have a brilliant manager. The likely scenario is that i succeed him but not for another 2 years. I am coaching an intermediate club to prove my worth as a coach and i believe i am proving that. I only get money for my mileage. Do you think that's me getting handy money? Have you any idea how little that is considering the time i put in? Not every coach is looking to make a second living.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 18/07/2024 14:14:26    2559918

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Interesting post. I'll get back to you on it later."
If I was a Louth man I'd be backing the County board 100%. There is a flagship senior County team there and a very positive feeling among the supporters, especially the youth. It's so important for Louth to nurture that positivity and obviously they know Devlin well and rate him so for me his appointment is not laughable(forever whatever) at all.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 18/07/2024 15:43:04    2559941

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The article doesn't exist and if it does your numbers are made up. The article you reference is very relevant if you are making stuff up.

As for your second point. You are literally clueless as to what goes on behind the scenes. I coach another club 45 mins away. I don't live in Mayo by the way but i also don't coach my adopted club where i live. The club i played for is a senior club who have a brilliant manager. The likely scenario is that i succeed him but not for another 2 years. I am coaching an intermediate club to prove my worth as a coach and i believe i am proving that. I only get money for my mileage. Do you think that's me getting handy money? Have you any idea how little that is considering the time i put in? Not every coach is looking to make a second living."
Your situation is totally different and I commend you for that… you are coaching in your own club.. A situation like that is very rare.. I know severals who are making a second living from coaching other clubs rather than their own.. Some are charging over €200 a session so make the math up yourself… This is going on wholesale and if you think it's not then you are very naive…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/07/2024 15:51:24    2559944

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Funny how you picked out the last outside coach ever to win an All Ireland… all of a quarter of a century ago..? Just proves my point"
The more traditionally successful counties have more very successful former players, and therefore are more likely to find some that might turn into decent coaches/managers. Therefore they are less likely to look outside for managers. That applies to clubs as well.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 18/07/2024 22:56:28    2559990

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Your situation is totally different and I commend you for that… you are coaching in your own club.. A situation like that is very rare.. I know severals who are making a second living from coaching other clubs rather than their own.. Some are charging over €200 a session so make the math up yourself… This is going on wholesale and if you think it's not then you are very naive…"
Think you need to read my post again.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 19/07/2024 01:16:23    2559995

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The article doesn't exist and if it does your numbers are made up. The article you reference is very relevant if you are making stuff up.

As for your second point. You are literally clueless as to what goes on behind the scenes. I coach another club 45 mins away. I don't live in Mayo by the way but i also don't coach my adopted club where i live. The club i played for is a senior club who have a brilliant manager. The likely scenario is that i succeed him but not for another 2 years. I am coaching an intermediate club to prove my worth as a coach and i believe i am proving that. I only get money for my mileage. Do you think that's me getting handy money? Have you any idea how little that is considering the time i put in? Not every coach is looking to make a second living."
Ah leave him be. The poor lad hasnt a clue what is happening. Makes outrageous statements without one shrewd of evidence to support his argument. A visit around the various forums will show that he is an army of one in all his losing battles. Unsuccessful at trying to have Cavan football dance to his tune he is now bringing his Walter Mitty stuff to a national level. Most clubs in our county have managers who receive the minimum in travelling expenses. For 95% of them, only their passion for the game keeps them putting in the effort year in year out. A far cry from that Cavan garsun who has never likely ever paid into a game or gave one minute of his time to a club. I have been involved with coaching for more years than I care to remember and like the majority my expenses far outweigh any few bob I got for petrol. In fact not one cent have I ever asked for. The GAA and it's wonderful games have been my passion since the day I watched on TV, John Donnellan captain Galway to the first of their 3 in a row. Any day I get to a game of any level is time well spent. There is no day I don't appreciate the effort put in by players and mentors for the love of their parish or county or just for their love of the game.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 19/07/2024 02:53:58    2559996

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Ah leave him be. The poor lad hasnt a clue what is happening. Makes outrageous statements without one shrewd of evidence to support his argument. A visit around the various forums will show that he is an army of one in all his losing battles. Unsuccessful at trying to have Cavan football dance to his tune he is now bringing his Walter Mitty stuff to a national level. Most clubs in our county have managers who receive the minimum in travelling expenses. For 95% of them, only their passion for the game keeps them putting in the effort year in year out. A far cry from that Cavan garsun who has never likely ever paid into a game or gave one minute of his time to a club. I have been involved with coaching for more years than I care to remember and like the majority my expenses far outweigh any few bob I got for petrol. In fact not one cent have I ever asked for. The GAA and it's wonderful games have been my passion since the day I watched on TV, John Donnellan captain Galway to the first of their 3 in a row. Any day I get to a game of any level is time well spent. There is no day I don't appreciate the effort put in by players and mentors for the love of their parish or county or just for their love of the game."
Sure …. the Banty did it for the love of the game……. You are some delusional fool if you think outside coaches are not paid… Your still living in a bygone era long since gone …

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 19/07/2024 11:15:11    2560034

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