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Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Who asked you. I was replying to Canuck saying ALL frees must be taken drom the ground." Just helping you out which you badly need… nobody would advocate ALL frees to be taken from the ground but when going for a score they should be taken from the deck… Simple logic ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 04/07/2024 17:20:08 2556938 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Just helping you out which you badly need… nobody would advocate ALL frees to be taken from the ground but when going for a score they should be taken from the deck… Simple logic" Canuck advocated all frees ro be from the ground. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 04/07/2024 18:38:56 2556949 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Just helping you out which you badly need… nobody would advocate ALL frees to be taken from the ground but when going for a score they should be taken from the deck… Simple logic" Simple logic? Taking all frees from the ground isn't simple. I cannot believe how stupid this idea is. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 04/07/2024 20:11:31 2556960 Link
Replying To sligo joe: "Sorry Aibrean but Tobin's report in 2023 was purely a statistical log of various parameters (numbers of handpasses, footpasses, frees, long kick-outs, time ball in play etc). The report did not include "conclusions" so you are wrong to say that the report "concluded" that the proliferation of the handpass was the main problem. Tobin's report made no comment on "problems" in the game." I concede that you have a point: no conclusions were reached. However, in listing the issues (if not 'problems') 'passing' comes first and is followed by about 8 other issues. Accordingly, I think it's reasonable to conclude that the authors of the report considered that 'passing' was the number 1 issue. Again, I accept that the word 'problems' is not mentioned in the Report. However, surely the whole point of the report is to identify 'problems', 'problem areas', 'issues', or, whatever word you think appropriate, as a start to finding solutions. The Report is hardly about non-issues. And, regardless of what the Report says, or does not say, about handpasses, my point, at this stage, is that the leaks from the Gavin Committee don't seem to include any measure that would encourage kicking over handpassing. Which I find discouraging. Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 304 - 04/07/2024 20:13:54 2556961 Link
GAA haven't helped the game but some of the suggestions on here are laughable. 3 changes, get rid of the forward mark and the black card. Lastly no fisted points and laying up for palmed goals. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 04/07/2024 20:30:31 2556967 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Canuck advocated all frees ro be from the ground." That would not be a good idea but taking them from the ground for scores would be….do you agree..? ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 04/07/2024 20:36:19 2556969 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Canuck advocated all frees ro be from the ground." Yes all frees and side line balls. Don't talk to me about tackling. There is not one in either code now. Thus the dragging at the neck. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 04/07/2024 20:36:57 2556970 Link
In answer to the OP, no I don't think it can be saved. Maybe it's had it's day, nothing lasts forever, I used to be a bag of nerves heading to watch kerry either live or on tv. These days I hardly even know when they are playing. As for neutral games, no thanks, The UUDF ulster ultra defense force have destroyed it forever. dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 124 - 04/07/2024 21:54:40 2556977 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "GAA haven't helped the game but some of the suggestions on here are laughable. 3 changes, get rid of the forward mark and the black card. Lastly no fisted points and laying up for palmed goals." I agree with getting rid of the forward mark and the black card but I see nothing wrong with the fisted points or the palmed goals which are both good for unlocking massed defences… ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 04/07/2024 22:23:43 2556986 Link
The Football Review Committee unfortunately cannot be a panacea for the perceived problems of Gaelic football, it will only be a temporary sticky plaster. with that said, I'm in favour of the 3 or 4 changes suggested in the media by the FRC. But Reading the media this week, I'm not a fan of the lazy punditry rhetoric which repeats what some other pundit said, we need more in depth thinking and analysis on the games from our pundits. In my opinion Coaching is were the real issue lies and Coaching is also were the solution lies. I believe Kicking is coached out of the game by default, due to the majority of training drills we use. A lot of high intensity training drills and warm up drills consist of hand passing. Because of these drills Players are naturally conditioned or hardwired over time to look for and instinctively play a short handpass rather than a longer kick pass, if a long kick pass is not coached! So if the ratio of handpasses to kick passes are to flip in the games, should the number of handpassing to kickpassing drills be changed in our training and train games? The FRC won't or can't fix coaching. Kris Van Der Haegen gave a very interesting speech at a GAA conference 4 or 5 years ago, he explained what the Belgium FA did to totally restructure coaching from underage age up to adult level. It was a long term plan which took years, so this approach may be something to consider if we really want to see lasting improvements. Also I believe the suggested non-forward or backwards-only/sideways handpass is not going to solve anything, if the players are not coached to kick the ball! It could possibly slow the game up more as there is no obvious incentive to kick the ball, but rather an incentive to go backwards. Players will run forward hit the wall and pass the ball backwards or sidewards and repeat. That change could also limit the handpass option to play a pass for a back door cut, which is a great move for a forward to get space from a defender. I'll end with an example to explain my thoughts around coaching. In the Donegal v Louth game last weekend, the last move of the game stood out for me. Ciaran Thompson dropped inside the Louth half before Patton took the kick out, Patton then drilled a long kick out, Thompson attacked the kick out, caught it in his chest, didn't take the mark, turned inside then got the head up and took a bounce and solo before hitting a 45 yard plus cross field pass to Jamie Brennan, Brennan caught it inside the Louth 45, took a bounce and solo and scored a point. So that was 3 kicks with no handpasses, which resulted in a score, starting from a kick out at the other end of the pitch in under 20 seconds. That's what Coaching can produce with no drastic open heart surgery rule changes needed as suggested by some pundits. The_viewer (Donegal) - Posts: 10 - 05/07/2024 00:31:33 2557001 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "GAA haven't helped the game but some of the suggestions on here are laughable. 3 changes, get rid of the forward mark and the black card. Lastly no fisted points and laying up for palmed goals." 1. After any stoppage of play, unless a throw-in is called for, the ball must be kicked from the ground, as for the kick-out. 2. The kick-out must be taken from the edge of the small square and must cross the twenty metre line before being touched by a player from the kicking team. 3. A player in possession of the football may score a goal or point only by kicking the ball. (FOOTBALL) 4. All scores from inside the opponent's the twenty metre line must be kicked. 5. Abolish the forward mark. 6. The goalkeeper may not advance past his twenty metre line for any reason. 7. When a team advances the ball inside the opponent's forty five metre line it cannot be played out by the team. #1 and #2 would force a long kick-out. #3 The game is "Football". #4 The game is still football not "Volleyball". Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 762 - 05/07/2024 22:27:48 2557124 Link
Replying To The_viewer: "The Football Review Committee unfortunately cannot be a panacea for the perceived problems of Gaelic football, it will only be a temporary sticky plaster. with that said, I'm in favour of the 3 or 4 changes suggested in the media by the FRC. But Reading the media this week, I'm not a fan of the lazy punditry rhetoric which repeats what some other pundit said, we need more in depth thinking and analysis on the games from our pundits. In my opinion Coaching is were the real issue lies and Coaching is also were the solution lies. I believe Kicking is coached out of the game by default, due to the majority of training drills we use. A lot of high intensity training drills and warm up drills consist of hand passing. Because of these drills Players are naturally conditioned or hardwired over time to look for and instinctively play a short handpass rather than a longer kick pass, if a long kick pass is not coached! So if the ratio of handpasses to kick passes are to flip in the games, should the number of handpassing to kickpassing drills be changed in our training and train games? The FRC won't or can't fix coaching. Kris Van Der Haegen gave a very interesting speech at a GAA conference 4 or 5 years ago, he explained what the Belgium FA did to totally restructure coaching from underage age up to adult level. It was a long term plan which took years, so this approach may be something to consider if we really want to see lasting improvements. Also I believe the suggested non-forward or backwards-only/sideways handpass is not going to solve anything, if the players are not coached to kick the ball! It could possibly slow the game up more as there is no obvious incentive to kick the ball, but rather an incentive to go backwards. Players will run forward hit the wall and pass the ball backwards or sidewards and repeat. That change could also limit the handpass option to play a pass for a back door cut, which is a great move for a forward to get space from a defender. I'll end with an example to explain my thoughts around coaching. In the Donegal v Louth game last weekend, the last move of the game stood out for me. Ciaran Thompson dropped inside the Louth half before Patton took the kick out, Patton then drilled a long kick out, Thompson attacked the kick out, caught it in his chest, didn't take the mark, turned inside then got the head up and took a bounce and solo before hitting a 45 yard plus cross field pass to Jamie Brennan, Brennan caught it inside the Louth 45, took a bounce and solo and scored a point. So that was 3 kicks with no handpasses, which resulted in a score, starting from a kick out at the other end of the pitch in under 20 seconds. That's what Coaching can produce with no drastic open heart surgery rule changes needed as suggested by some pundits." Thoughtful post. However, I think you are over complicating the issue. If, somehow, the handpass is curtailed by rule, players would have to kick the ball. Is it not that simple? The 'somehow' is the problem, of course, and the debate goes on. Maybe, if a player receives a handpass he must kick the ball? As, something of an aside, I think, the fact that a player in possession can so easily handpass the ball (no skill involved), makes it very difficult to legally dispossess him and hence all sorts of illegal tackles have evolved and been tolerated by referees. Why, for example, when a player is 'tackled' by two (or 3 for that matter) can he not run out between them? Because he is being held! Which is illegal. So, if a player had to kick the ball, it would be much easier for the other team to regain the ball and, maybe, less need to tolerate the illegal tackling. Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 304 - 08/07/2024 21:13:39 2557858 Link
Far too many rules changes happening or has happened over last 10 years. Far too many new ones possibly coming in now in this batch as well. I hope they don't bring all these new suggestions in hughieferm (Fermanagh) - Posts: 13 - 10/07/2024 16:19:30 2558235 Link
Replying To hughieferm: "Far too many rules changes happening or has happened over last 10 years. Far too many new ones possibly coming in now in this batch as well. I hope they don't bring all these new suggestions in" How about enforcing the steps rule, 4 steps, this would allow the tackle as designed, ie. tackle the ball, and make it much harder to retain possession as you could no longer tuck the ball and run 10+ steps to get away from an opponent, abolish rubbish mark and enforce existing rules, specifically the steps rule and enable players to tackle as intended GAAK (Derry) - Posts: 20 - 13/07/2024 07:12:49 2558653 Link
Replying To GAAK: "How about enforcing the steps rule, 4 steps, this would allow the tackle as designed, ie. tackle the ball, and make it much harder to retain possession as you could no longer tuck the ball and run 10+ steps to get away from an opponent, abolish rubbish mark and enforce existing rules, specifically the steps rule and enable players to tackle as intended" The "rubbish mark" is not THE problem. Agree with the rest of your post. But how will enforcing the existing rules make teams come out and attack? The sight of Odhran Lynch standing all by himself on the HW line tapping the ball from toe to hand..... How about a limit on amount of times you can play the ball to yourself? Hurling has a limit. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 13/07/2024 11:20:57 2558668 Link
Coaching in the game is the main problem… A win at all costs mentally by paid outside coaches to try and justify their existence… The game will never be saved while this sort of thing continues… The paymasters have a lot to answer for…! ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 13/07/2024 13:44:48 2558682 Link
Saved from what? Nothing wrong with Gaelic football . Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 13/07/2024 19:35:29 2558732 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "Saved from what? Nothing wrong with Gaelic football ." Are you happy with over 3 times as many handpasses as kicks? And it's not Gaelic Football, it's Gaelic Handball. Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 304 - 15/07/2024 22:14:11 2559408 Link
Replying To GAAK: "How about enforcing the steps rule, 4 steps, this would allow the tackle as designed, ie. tackle the ball, and make it much harder to retain possession as you could no longer tuck the ball and run 10+ steps to get away from an opponent, abolish rubbish mark and enforce existing rules, specifically the steps rule and enable players to tackle as intended" Good post. To enforce the rules would be a major improvement. As GAAK says, abuse of the 4 steps rule is completely out of control; why can't refs count? Why can a player 'tackled' by 2 not run out between them? Because he's being held, which is a foul. Why do refs allow the player in possession to be struck/hammered/punched/battered by the Hans/arms/fists of opponents? (They talk of 'the free hand' in hurling, but there are two 'free hands' in football). Why do refs bring the ball forward by as many as 30 metres when it should be 13? Why do refs allow all sorts of handpasses - without the ball 'being released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'. Why do refs 'let the game flow' (for which they are often praised!) as opposed to enforcing the rules? End of rant. PS: Why do commentators often say about star forwards: 'he is well able to look after himself'. Surely, he should not have 'to look after himself'; is that not the job of the referee? Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 304 - 15/07/2024 22:37:33 2559413 Link
Until the under the table paying of outside managers and coaches at club and county level is tackled then our games will only get worse…. Changing the rules is only kicking the can down the road and will only make the game worse… The big wigs in the GAA continue to bury their heads in the sand on this issue and now it's gone completely out of control.. Word has it that Revenue are going to swoop in on clubs and payments to coaches and others will have to be declared…. not before time as it's a complete blight on the supposed amateur game…. ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 16/07/2024 10:36:09 2559448 Link