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Replying To CiarraiMick: "First of all I was a free taker myself and most of that is practiced seperately from training.The outside of the boot kicks can be taken from distamce and line balls.You said you were a coach.Surely you dont think taking frees off the hand from near the posts is skillfull.No close in frees off the hand is my suggestion.You dont like it fine.Move on! Id also only allow marks from kicks from ground and they have to be caught over the head." I never said close in frees from the hand were skillful. I am saying why do we care about this? And now you are saying there should be some allowed from the hands? The other poster wants nothing, this is just daft chat.
Advanced mark is rubbish, should be scrapped unless they can clearly work it to make sure it's a long distance kick into the scoring zone.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 15/04/2024 12:31:15
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Ciaran McDonald kicked off the ground also but you have selective memory as did Cillian O Connor.Much more skilful but you cant see that." I am specifically talking about the outside of the year boot frees from distance. That's what we are talking about. He wasn't the primary free taker and was used for long distance frees from the hands.
O Connor all hands now. Why do we care? It adds nothing.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 15/04/2024 12:40:18
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "A once in a lifetime shot…. nobody did it before or since…. a little bit like a cow standing on a hare…!!!!" Once in a lifetime.
He did the same thing against Mayo in the 1997 All-Ireland final!
Frankie Dolan with a similar one against Kildare in the qualifiers. Matty Forde with a beauty against Armagh in an All-Ireland Quarter-Final. There are many more too. A rare but not 'once in a lifetime' score imo.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13779 - 15/04/2024 13:02:34
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I am specifically talking about the outside of the year boot frees from distance. That's what we are talking about. He wasn't the primary free taker and was used for long distance frees from the hands.
O Connor all hands now. Why do we care? It adds nothing." O Connor missed out of his hands to win the All Ireland for Mayo…. if only it was frees of the ground only for scores you could have been celebrating…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 15/04/2024 13:07:56
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Forcing all scroreable frees to be taken off the ground is madness lads. It is a lovely skill but more difficult thus you'd be encouraging more fouling. Kicking regularly from the ground also increases repetitive injury. There is a reason that the likes of Dean Rock kicked the majority of his frees from the hand.
We still see plenty of free kicks struck off the ground in anyways because it is still the best option in certain scenarios. Just like an outside of the boot effort from the hands, another brilliant skill to see, is also the best option sometimes.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13779 - 15/04/2024 13:12:34
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Replying To MesAmis: "Once in a lifetime.
He did the same thing against Mayo in the 1997 All-Ireland final!
Frankie Dolan with a similar one against Kildare in the qualifiers. Matty Forde with a beauty against Armagh in an All-Ireland Quarter-Final. There are many more too. A rare but not 'once in a lifetime' score imo." For the weeks that's in it. Michael Murphy vs Derry in Celtic park 2014.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 780 - 15/04/2024 13:20:02
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I have a few suggestions I'd make to improve the game...
Frees and sideline kicks must go forward, not back or sideways
Goalies can't pass their own 21 yard line and that includes not being able to take 45s etc.
No points from the hands unless like in the case of a palmed goal the ball is passed towards you and hit it first time
Create a halfway line. Once the attacking team passes that line they can't pass the ball back to their own half.
Handpasses must go forward, not sideways or back
Ones I'd consider
Goals worth 5pts
Frees taken from the ground including sideline balls from outside the 45 worth 2pts
No short kick outs
Get rid of the forward mark
45 second shot clock
eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 15/04/2024 13:41:40
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Replying To MesAmis: "Forcing all scroreable frees to be taken off the ground is madness lads. It is a lovely skill but more difficult thus you'd be encouraging more fouling. Kicking regularly from the ground also increases repetitive injury. There is a reason that the likes of Dean Rock kicked the majority of his frees from the hand.
We still see plenty of free kicks struck off the ground in anyways because it is still the best option in certain scenarios. Just like an outside of the boot effort from the hands, another brilliant skill to see, is also the best option sometimes." Thank god a few more people are talking sense now.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 15/04/2024 14:10:11
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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland: "I have a few suggestions I'd make to improve the game...
Frees and sideline kicks must go forward, not back or sideways
Goalies can't pass their own 21 yard line and that includes not being able to take 45s etc.
No points from the hands unless like in the case of a palmed goal the ball is passed towards you and hit it first time
Create a halfway line. Once the attacking team passes that line they can't pass the ball back to their own half.
Handpasses must go forward, not sideways or back
Ones I'd consider
Goals worth 5pts
Frees taken from the ground including sideline balls from outside the 45 worth 2pts
No short kick outs
Get rid of the forward mark
45 second shot clock" Shot clock is fine for basketball but won't work in gaelic football. Will make it more defensive than it is now.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 15/04/2024 14:32:35
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Replying To TheFlaker: "So you think taking time to set up a free from inside the 21 metre line and pop it over the bar is going to improve the game? Seriously? And this idea that players can just start training to take frees from the ground is not straight forward.
Also the poster is making the point that we sometimes see amazing scores from frees from the hands where the kicker hits it with the outside of the boot from his wrong side. The likes of Ciaran McDonald does it all the time. There was 2 of them Saturday evening in the club game I was at. That doesn't happen if this idea became reality." Cian Ward who used to play for Meath from the mid 2000s to the early 2010s used to sometimes take frees from the ground from off the side of his boot.
When he was on form he was a seriously skilful player.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 15/04/2024 16:18:35
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Maurice Fitz s kick was from a line ball.I have no problem taking line balls from the hand but I dont think any free from inside the 45 metre line should be taken from hands .At least stop anyone inside the 21 line taking frees from hand.Im not saying im right.Im just saying there is no skill involved in taking close in frees from the hand." Correct me if I'm wrong but when taking frees off the ground didn't Maurice Fitz take some with left boot and some the right boot?
Some skillful footballer.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 15/04/2024 16:25:20
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The National Basketball association in the US has led the way in removing cynical play from their sport.
I would be a fan of trying some of the following
1. Outlaw zonal defence (has to be man to man unless attacking team withdraws a forward).
2. Introduce a 45m arc and give 2 points for a long range point
3. Introduce a 45m free after 12 team fouls per half.
4. Introduce a 21m free for any deliberate cynical foul
And here is a few GAA specific ones
1. Marks only awarded if caught above the head while jumping (high catch only)
2. Ban two man tackle
3. Fist pass instead of handpass
4. No fisted scores unless it's a first time punch (no open palm)
5. All kick outs past the 45 (kick out spot to be brought forward on windy day at refs discretion)
A couple of unorthodox ones (to bring a bit of madness to a game):
1. Scores from drop kicks count as double.
2. Goalkeepers venturing outside their own 21m line are "fair game" and no free can be awarded for any foul on them while in possession.
3. Replace penalties with the forward in possession on 45m line running at the goalkeeper (positioned on 21). - like an ice hockey shootout.
4. Allow "tap tackle" - as per hook tackle in Hurling" Interesting ideas here.
Not really sure how you about banning zonal defending in practice.
I don't like giving more points for a certain type of 'point'.
Don't like giving frees once team has reached certain no. of fouls. The more we penalise tacklers the more we promote possession style football.
Like the GAA specific ones.
Of the unorthodox ones I like roaming goalie tackling one, I like the suggestion for replacing penalty shootouts.
Not sure what you actually mean by the 'tap tackle' one.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 15/04/2024 16:53:11
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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland: "I have a few suggestions I'd make to improve the game...
Frees and sideline kicks must go forward, not back or sideways
Goalies can't pass their own 21 yard line and that includes not being able to take 45s etc.
No points from the hands unless like in the case of a palmed goal the ball is passed towards you and hit it first time
Create a halfway line. Once the attacking team passes that line they can't pass the ball back to their own half.
Handpasses must go forward, not sideways or back
Ones I'd consider
Goals worth 5pts
Frees taken from the ground including sideline balls from outside the 45 worth 2pts
No short kick outs
Get rid of the forward mark
45 second shot clock" Mostly good suggestions there.
Issues I see wit some.
Not a fan of repetitive handpassing but not sure if banning backways hand passing is practical.
Don't think the shot clock is practical for gaelic football (I don't follow basketball but I'm guessing shotclock would mean attempting a score a certain time post a kickout?)
A point is a point, don't like some points counting double.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 15/04/2024 17:06:23
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Interesting ideas here.
Not really sure how you about banning zonal defending in practice.
I don't like giving more points for a certain type of 'point'.
Don't like giving frees once team has reached certain no. of fouls. The more we penalise tacklers the more we promote possession style football.
Like the GAA specific ones.
Of the unorthodox ones I like roaming goalie tackling one, I like the suggestion for replacing penalty shootouts.
Not sure what you actually mean by the 'tap tackle' one." You're penalising players that foul when they tackle, not players who tackle. Might help to stop tactical fouling where different players rotate the fouling of a key attacker knowing there will be less risk of a black or yellow card if it's one player repeatedly fouling the key attacker. It might free up a bit of room for attacking teams. And it definitely mightn't either. Depends on the match officials on the day.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 15/04/2024 17:15:20
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Replying To MesAmis: "Once in a lifetime.
He did the same thing against Mayo in the 1997 All-Ireland final!
Frankie Dolan with a similar one against Kildare in the qualifiers. Matty Forde with a beauty against Armagh in an All-Ireland Quarter-Final. There are many more too. A rare but not 'once in a lifetime' score imo." It was a throw away comment really and not to be taken completely literally but you are correct in saying these type of scores are very rare… Under my proposal sideline kicks would still be kicked from the hands as it would speed up the game and frees from any distance can be taken from the hands but just can't be directly put over the bar… It would also result in free taker's having no issue with stepping up to take a 45 instead of this nonsense of keepers coming trapesing up the pitch to take them wasting time in doing so….. The reason goalkeepers at County and club level have to take 45's is that outfield players haven't the ability to strike a ball off the ground which is a crying shame….!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 15/04/2024 17:23:50
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Replying To GreenMan1987: "Correct me if I'm wrong but when taking frees off the ground didn't Maurice Fitz take some with left boot and some the right boot?
Some skillful footballer." You are correct.Maurice Fitz kicked frees from ground with both legs depending which side of pitch free was awarded.Very unique talent .I think Shane Walsh can do likewise but have nt seen anyone else with those skills.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 15/04/2024 19:59:10
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Replying To GreenMan1987: "Cian Ward who used to play for Meath from the mid 2000s to the early 2010s used to sometimes take frees from the ground from off the side of his boot.
When he was on form he was a seriously skilful player." A very talented footballer and a top free taker was Cian.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 15/04/2024 20:00:49
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "You are correct.Maurice Fitz kicked frees from ground with both legs depending which side of pitch free was awarded.Very unique talent .I think Shane Walsh can do likewise but have nt seen anyone else with those skills." For me Maurice Fitz's ability to take frees from well out the field off the ground with either foot was a big part of the reason I'd rate him as most naturally talented footballer I've seen. Some skill level to do that.
Have any other players ever done this?.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 15/04/2024 23:27:39
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "A very talented footballer and a top free taker was Cian." A very good analyst too on Sunday nights on Smaller Fish.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 16/04/2024 00:26:10
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Interesting ideas here.
Not really sure how you about banning zonal defending in practice.
I don't like giving more points for a certain type of 'point'.
Don't like giving frees once team has reached certain no. of fouls. The more we penalise tacklers the more we promote possession style football.
Like the GAA specific ones.
Of the unorthodox ones I like roaming goalie tackling one, I like the suggestion for replacing penalty shootouts.
Not sure what you actually mean by the 'tap tackle' one." By tap tackle, I mean tapping the kicking foot just as the man is possession is about to strike the ball.
In hurling, you can "hook" the hurl just as the man in possession is about to strike the sliothar and it's called great defence, but the same act in football is a foul.
It's a legit tackle in rugby (except can be done while the man is possession is running).
I threw it on the list for the craic but it is actually a very hard defensive maneuver to pull off.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 16/04/2024 03:04:55
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