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Provincial Championships 2024

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To make the Provincial and League results meaningful before the AI group stage, I think results in the three stages could be merged together, with the total match count reduced. Say, instead of Provincials 3 (most teams' potentially) + League 7/8 + Group Stage 3 = 13/14 games, cut it back to 10 total (before AI KO stage). The 10 games could be a modified version of the UEFA Champions League system for 2024/25 - say, Div 1 & 4 teams target 6 games versus Div 2 & 3 teams (replacing League schedule, 3 matches v each of 2 Divs) + Provincial matches (1 to 4), with teams playing additional matches as needed against own Div to complete 10 matches. Top 16 of 32 in a combined 10-match table to the Sam KO (seeding based on table position); Next 8 to a similar Tailteann KO; and Bottom 8 to a Tier 3 KO. Divs reset as seeded "pots" for the next year - Pot 1 (prior year Sam QF teams); Pot 2 (Sam Rd of 16 losers); Pot 3 (Tailteann teams); and Pot 4 (Tier 3 teams). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 05:04:13 2510350 Link
Replying To omahant: "To make the Provincial and League results meaningful before the AI group stage, I think results in the three stages could be merged together, with the total match count reduced. Say, instead of Provincials 3 (most teams' potentially) + League 7/8 + Group Stage 3 = 13/14 games, cut it back to 10 total (before AI KO stage). The 10 games could be a modified version of the UEFA Champions League system for 2024/25 - say, Div 1 & 4 teams target 6 games versus Div 2 & 3 teams (replacing League schedule, 3 matches v each of 2 Divs) + Provincial matches (1 to 4), with teams playing additional matches as needed against own Div to complete 10 matches. Top 16 of 32 in a combined 10-match table to the Sam KO (seeding based on table position); Next 8 to a similar Tailteann KO; and Bottom 8 to a Tier 3 KO. Divs reset as seeded "pots" for the next year - Pot 1 (prior year Sam QF teams); Pot 2 (Sam Rd of 16 losers); Pot 3 (Tailteann teams); and Pot 4 (Tier 3 teams)." Head reels..... Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1944 - 26/10/2023 10:46:38 2510375 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Head reels....." For sure Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 26/10/2023 12:06:55 2510414 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "After 20 years of savage batins by Dublin in Leinster what improvements has that brought to Carlow, Wicklow etc" Excuse me but what "savage bating" did Carlow get off Dublin, and when? Not since the 1978 having carlow not put it up to Dublin. Carlow came as close as anyone (bar Mayo) to beating Dublin when they were winning their 6 in a row. Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1429 - 26/10/2023 14:09:42 2510461 Link
That doesn't help. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 14:18:39 2510467 Link
Or, make it 12 games, incl Prov games: D1 D2 D3 D4 D1 4 5 3 0 D2 0 4 3 D3 0 5 D4 4 At the end of the Prov Championships, have a draw to pick outstanding fixtures. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 14:46:11 2510475 Link
Replying To omahant: "That doesn't help." Neither do massively over complicated solutions to problems, some of which aren't problems in the first place. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 26/10/2023 15:00:11 2510479 Link
Replying To omahant: "That doesn't help." Referring to "For sure" above. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 15:09:33 2510487 Link
When is the leinster hurling championship fixtures for next year due out? Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 26/10/2023 17:29:51 2510511 Link
Replying To Afinestick: "When is the leinster hurling championship fixtures for next year due out?" Hopefully soon looking to organise my stag around the Antrim game Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 310 - 26/10/2023 17:58:23 2510519 Link
Replying To omahant: "Referring to "For sure" above." I know. I was agreeing with his post which I thought meant that he thought what you proposed in that post was unnecessarily complicated and couldn't be policed well by just one referee. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 26/10/2023 18:06:25 2510525 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Neither do massively over complicated solutions to problems, some of which aren't problems in the first place." Did you write to UEFA? - either people will understand or they won't, but the changes are being implemented next year, like it or not. I'm just doing a similar spread of games - I could make it a bit easier - say each team plays 4 teams from all divisions 1 to 4, EXCEPT there are "no div 1 v 4 ties" (reducing schedule from 16 to 12 games), and with "div 2 v 2 and div 2 v 3", only play two opponents instead of four from each (12 games total). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 18:07:26 2510526 Link
Replying To omahant: "Or, make it 12 games, incl Prov games: D1 D2 D3 D4 D1 4 5 3 0 D2 0 4 3 D3 0 5 D4 4 At the end of the Prov Championships, have a draw to pick outstanding fixtures." There is quite an amount of support for the old 1A/1B and 2A/2B league structure - this simply has current Div 1 teams playing half Div 1, half Div 2 in Divs 1A/1B (and Div 3 teams playing half Div 3, half Div 4 in Divs 2A/2B). My schedule spreads games across three divs, instead of two (top 8 teams play mix from top 3 divs, bottom 8 teams play mix from bottom 3 divs). My grid didn't align as I inputted it - best to state it instead (12-match schedule): Div 1v1, 2v3 & 4v4 (4 opponents in each case) Div 1v2 & 3v4 (3 opponents) Div 1v3 & 2v4 (5 opponents) Div 1v4, 2v2 & 3v3 (no opponents). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 26/10/2023 19:08:27 2510538 Link
Replying To Onion Breath: "Excuse me but what "savage bating" did Carlow get off Dublin, and when? Not since the 1978 having carlow not put it up to Dublin. Carlow came as close as anyone (bar Mayo) to beating Dublin when they were winning their 6 in a row." Kerry drew with them also just make that known Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 513 - 26/10/2023 21:19:38 2510548 Link
Replying To omahant: "Did you write to UEFA? - either people will understand or they won't, but the changes are being implemented next year, like it or not. I'm just doing a similar spread of games - I could make it a bit easier - say each team plays 4 teams from all divisions 1 to 4, EXCEPT there are "no div 1 v 4 ties" (reducing schedule from 16 to 12 games), and with "div 2 v 2 and div 2 v 3", only play two opponents instead of four from each (12 games total)." What is the problem that all that is supposed to solve? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 27/10/2023 10:13:19 2510585 Link
Replying To Viking66: "What is the problem that all that is supposed to solve?" Gives more exposure to middle and lower tier teams against upper and middle tier teams, respectively - currently, Div 2 promoted teams have quite a step up against the "Elite" - would the old 1A/1B widen the net and be less intense - and I spread further, as there is not much difference between Div 2 & 3 teams. Should do similar for hurling - have McDonagh teams play the lower McCarthy teams (but avoid the best) - this is actually on thd table with ranked seven-team Divs 1A & 1B. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 27/10/2023 15:53:22 2510660 Link
Replying To omahant: "Gives more exposure to middle and lower tier teams against upper and middle tier teams, respectively - currently, Div 2 promoted teams have quite a step up against the "Elite" - would the old 1A/1B widen the net and be less intense - and I spread further, as there is not much difference between Div 2 & 3 teams. Should do similar for hurling - have McDonagh teams play the lower McCarthy teams (but avoid the best) - this is actually on thd table with ranked seven-team Divs 1A & 1B." Why not just have a div1, div2, div3 and div4. 6 teams in the top 2 divisions. 2 up and 2 down between all of them. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 27/10/2023 19:29:24 2510688 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Why not just have a div1, div2, div3 and div4. 6 teams in the top 2 divisions. 2 up and 2 down between all of them." You are keeping the hierarchy there - which is fine - I have more of a mixed quality spread of games to give exposure and "hopefully" improve the standard of the less successful. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 28/10/2023 14:16:35 2510730 Link
Replying To omahant: "You are keeping the hierarchy there - which is fine - I have more of a mixed quality spread of games to give exposure and "hopefully" improve the standard of the less successful." I don't think any purpose would be served by Tyrone playing Limerick next year for talks sake. 3 teams in div2 will be deemed stronger, and 3 weaker. If the stronger teams mess around and don't take the competition seriously they could end up in the bottom 2 and get relegated to div3. Likewise all 6 teams in div1 will likely not want to get relegated to div2 so the standard of competition and hurling should be higher. And 2 different teams from div3 will come up every year also, where they will likely get the chance to play 3 stronger teams. And pointless SFs and finals should be done away with. If you finish top you are that divisions champions. That would free up more weekends for the Championship. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 28/10/2023 15:13:21 2510735 Link
Replying To Viking66: "I don't think any purpose would be served by Tyrone playing Limerick next year for talks sake. 3 teams in div2 will be deemed stronger, and 3 weaker. If the stronger teams mess around and don't take the competition seriously they could end up in the bottom 2 and get relegated to div3. Likewise all 6 teams in div1 will likely not want to get relegated to div2 so the standard of competition and hurling should be higher. And 2 different teams from div3 will come up every year also, where they will likely get the chance to play 3 stronger teams. And pointless SFs and finals should be done away with. If you finish top you are that divisions champions. That would free up more weekends for the Championship." It's always arguable whether mixed quality or ranked groups are better - take the Rugby Union World Cup - there were some ugly mismatches, but at the same time, giving Georgia, Uruguay and Portugal more quality games seems to be the way to go for them to develop - there needs to be a balance - say, South Africa plays no team ranked lower than 15th - but I'd keep Tyrone v Limerick in your example. Back to GAA NFL - How about keeping Div 4 as is (renamed something else), but mix up the rest in 4 groups of 6 (two from each of divs 1 to 3) - four groups winners to SFs, four last teams to relegation SFs, two loser v last div top 2 for two other 'top 24' places? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2874 - 29/10/2023 01:12:09 2510790 Link