National Forum

Leinster Football 2023 - The Much Maligned Province.

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Dublin AI Champions & Div 2 League Champions

Kildare U20 AI Champions (Excellent recent history of winning AI's at underage)

Meath Tailteann Cup Champions (to their credit, Meath went on a great run)

Thinks it's obvious enough that Leinster Football had a great year in 2023.

I know the senior Leinster Football championship is dead, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

I'm not one for crowing about provinces, I like seeing Kildare and Meath beaten, as much as I don't mind them winning the odd one, that's the rather blunt truth of it.

But fair is fair, Leinster Football had a great year but let's see if it can be built upon.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20687 - 01/10/2023 10:09:01    2506429

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Dublin AI Champions & Div 2 League Champions

Kildare U20 AI Champions (Excellent recent history of winning AI's at underage)

Meath Tailteann Cup Champions (to their credit, Meath went on a great run)

Thinks it's obvious enough that Leinster Football had a great year in 2023.

I know the senior Leinster Football championship is dead, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

I'm not one for crowing about provinces, I like seeing Kildare and Meath beaten, as much as I don't mind them winning the odd one, that's the rather blunt truth of it.

But fair is fair, Leinster Football had a great year but let's see if it can be built upon."
Did you forget Kilmacud Crokes or just from a rival club?

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 177 - 02/10/2023 13:54:01    2506632

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Dublin AI Champions & Div 2 League Champions

Kildare U20 AI Champions (Excellent recent history of winning AI's at underage)

Meath Tailteann Cup Champions (to their credit, Meath went on a great run)

Thinks it's obvious enough that Leinster Football had a great year in 2023.

I know the senior Leinster Football championship is dead, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

I'm not one for crowing about provinces, I like seeing Kildare and Meath beaten, as much as I don't mind them winning the odd one, that's the rather blunt truth of it.

But fair is fair, Leinster Football had a great year but let's see if it can be built upon."
It's maligned at senior intercounty level, not at underage or at any other level. The truth is Kildare and Meath have been underperforming for a long time in the senior league and championship.
Counties like Monaghan and Roscommon have outperformed them over this period despite being much smaller counties.
Hopefully Meath will build on their Tailteann run and Kildare start to develop on their undoubted potential.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 02/10/2023 14:39:37    2506640

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On truth because of Dublin's dominance the province is sneered at but one has to look at how Meath Kildare Westmeath etc perform outside of Leinster. I mean Munster is sneered at too but look at Cork this year outside of Munster they best both Mayo and Roscommon in the championship and Connaught is the number 2 provence. Ulster is number one and rightly so many strong teams. Now even in the 70s and 80s the Ulster championship was great but in reality Ulster football was weak when they came out of Ulster. In the 70s and 80s Munster football and Leinster football were the strongest and the only way Ulster and Connaught teams would qualify for a final was if they played each other in a semi as a rule. Now in fairness we have to judge Leinster teams against non Leinster opposition. Kildare beat Mayo a few years ago and Westmeath v unlucky v Tyrone last year. As a neutral I miss the old Dublin /Meath battles and hopefully the other Leinster teams will start to rise again.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 02/10/2023 16:54:27    2506672

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Does it honestly really matter?

I mean at the end of the day, we are dying from the moment we are born.

We are all just ghosts in the wind. Each of us struggling to hold on to a few precious minutes of happiness.

In the end, we are less than a spec of dust in the vast chasm of time and space.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 922 - 02/10/2023 22:42:16    2506709

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Replying To Wally:  "Does it honestly really matter?

I mean at the end of the day, we are dying from the moment we are born.

We are all just ghosts in the wind. Each of us struggling to hold on to a few precious minutes of happiness.

In the end, we are less than a spec of dust in the vast chasm of time and space."
Ah god : )

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 03/10/2023 09:27:20    2506729

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wally posting dribble as usual

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 177 - 03/10/2023 09:41:01    2506733

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Replying To Wally:  "Does it honestly really matter?

I mean at the end of the day, we are dying from the moment we are born.

We are all just ghosts in the wind. Each of us struggling to hold on to a few precious minutes of happiness.

In the end, we are less than a spec of dust in the vast chasm of time and space."
i'm goin 4a pint

Zucker (Leitrim) - Posts: 156 - 03/10/2023 11:03:04    2506764

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Wally

Do you own a dog?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20687 - 03/10/2023 12:32:12    2506781

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "On truth because of Dublin's dominance the province is sneered at but one has to look at how Meath Kildare Westmeath etc perform outside of Leinster. I mean Munster is sneered at too but look at Cork this year outside of Munster they best both Mayo and Roscommon in the championship and Connaught is the number 2 provence. Ulster is number one and rightly so many strong teams. Now even in the 70s and 80s the Ulster championship was great but in reality Ulster football was weak when they came out of Ulster. In the 70s and 80s Munster football and Leinster football were the strongest and the only way Ulster and Connaught teams would qualify for a final was if they played each other in a semi as a rule. Now in fairness we have to judge Leinster teams against non Leinster opposition. Kildare beat Mayo a few years ago and Westmeath v unlucky v Tyrone last year. As a neutral I miss the old Dublin /Meath battles and hopefully the other Leinster teams will start to rise again."
We all hope that the Leinster counties apart from Dublin begin to compete again in be SFC. It would be great for all teams including Dublin, to have more counties compete for provincial titles.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 03/10/2023 13:46:28    2506796

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Replying To thelongridge:  "We all hope that the Leinster counties apart from Dublin begin to compete again in be SFC. It would be great for all teams including Dublin, to have more counties compete for provincial titles."
Yes it would be great to have 5 or 6 teams challenging Dublin. Tbf because Dublin were so strong alot of Leinster counties seemed to regress with big players from some counties losing interest. The reality is that Dublin team would have dominated all provinces tbh. In the 00s the Leinster championship had winners from Kildare Westmeath Meath and Laois aswell as Dublin of course. Even if those counties don't win Leinster they should be challenging through the qualifiers.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 03/10/2023 14:03:35    2506802

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Replying To Wally:  "Does it honestly really matter?

I mean at the end of the day, we are dying from the moment we are born.

We are all just ghosts in the wind. Each of us struggling to hold on to a few precious minutes of happiness.

In the end, we are less than a spec of dust in the vast chasm of time and space."
Eh, this is Hoganstand. Not TikTok....

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 503 - 03/10/2023 16:04:26    2506822

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Wally

Do you own a dog?"
Where's Wally.????

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3975 - 03/10/2023 16:13:54    2506824

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https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2506802

Unfortunately the possession football that dominates nowadays militates against naturally talented footballers, i.e. a team of athletic footballers, with no expenses spared preparation, will invariably beat a team of better footballers.

Having said that there is no denying that Dublin have had some supremely talented footballers over the past decade - Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton, James McCarthy to name just a few.

The possession game has ruined both hurling and football. Gone is the thrilling spectacle of first time ground hurling and the clash of the ash. In football we no longer see the man to man battles - the one on one between the crafty forward and the cunning defender.

Dublin are so financially well resourced nowadays that it is exceedingly difficult for the rest of Leinster to compete. At underage level, with Kildare as an example, we do see that there is the potential for meaningful competition if there was a level playing field.

saorkick (Dublin) - Posts: 13 - 03/10/2023 21:42:30    2506868

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Replying To Fionn:  "Where's Wally.????"
Yeah, Wally did not appear to be in great form there,hope the form is better today

I had reason to ask if he owned a dog

Nothing better for the head, grab a stick, throw him/her in the car and get out in the wind and nature for a walk with the dog.

Throw the stick, breath the air, enjoy the play, exercise, look around you and appreciate how fortunate you are to be doing what you're doing.

Bring him/her home, wash them in the bath, make yourself and the dog some grub, light the fire, watch him/her sleep while you put your feet up after time spent well.

Simple, simple great things.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20687 - 04/10/2023 10:37:37    2506897

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Replying To saorkick:  "https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2506802

Unfortunately the possession football that dominates nowadays militates against naturally talented footballers, i.e. a team of athletic footballers, with no expenses spared preparation, will invariably beat a team of better footballers.

Having said that there is no denying that Dublin have had some supremely talented footballers over the past decade - Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton, James McCarthy to name just a few.

The possession game has ruined both hurling and football. Gone is the thrilling spectacle of first time ground hurling and the clash of the ash. In football we no longer see the man to man battles - the one on one between the crafty forward and the cunning defender.

Dublin are so financially well resourced nowadays that it is exceedingly difficult for the rest of Leinster to compete. At underage level, with Kildare as an example, we do see that there is the potential for meaningful competition if there was a level playing field."
Good post, and "Clash of the ash" was a great expression used especially by Micheál O' Hehir. Hasn't been heard much recently, as shoulder to shoulder contests are avoided. It is true that hurling has decreased as a spectacle, as the possession game is not as attractive as ground hurling. It is what it is, possession game is here to stay,and tactical awareness and fitness will triumph over traditional hurling!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 04/10/2023 16:16:24    2506951

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Good post, and "Clash of the ash" was a great expression used especially by Micheál O' Hehir. Hasn't been heard much recently, as shoulder to shoulder contests are avoided. It is true that hurling has decreased as a spectacle, as the possession game is not as attractive as ground hurling. It is what it is, possession game is here to stay,and tactical awareness and fitness will triumph over traditional hurling!"
Not true. Traditional hurling was always about winning the ball so that you can score with it and your opponents can't. What you do with it between winning it and trying to score with it might have changed since the 17th/18th Century, but those 2 fundamentals never will. The current AI champions, like all the others before them, were the best this year at winning the ball and scoring with it. Traditional hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 04/10/2023 18:48:37    2506972

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Replying To Viking66:  "Not true. Traditional hurling was always about winning the ball so that you can score with it and your opponents can't. What you do with it between winning it and trying to score with it might have changed since the 17th/18th Century, but those 2 fundamentals never will. The current AI champions, like all the others before them, were the best this year at winning the ball and scoring with it. Traditional hurling."
As the late great Fr Tommy Maher said - the ball travels faster than any player.
If you're happy with the modern game that's fine but so many of the skills are not seen anymore like ground hurling and overhead striking. There was nothing more thrilling than a spate of back and forth ground hurling.
Nowadays some players choose extra short hurls for fear of being hooked. What next - tennis rackets ?
I'd love to see the sliotar revert to the specifications used in the 70s and 80s to reduce the ping pong scoring.
Give me the wristy hurlers any day over the hand-passing super-athletes.

saorkick (Dublin) - Posts: 13 - 04/10/2023 22:38:41    2506993

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Replying To saorkick:  "As the late great Fr Tommy Maher said - the ball travels faster than any player.
If you're happy with the modern game that's fine but so many of the skills are not seen anymore like ground hurling and overhead striking. There was nothing more thrilling than a spate of back and forth ground hurling.
Nowadays some players choose extra short hurls for fear of being hooked. What next - tennis rackets ?
I'd love to see the sliotar revert to the specifications used in the 70s and 80s to reduce the ping pong scoring.
Give me the wristy hurlers any day over the hand-passing super-athletes."
That is a really good point regarding the Hurls.
I needed to buy one recently and both the coach and the guy in the shop recommended getting the shorter hurl, for the reason you mentioned above.

The ball travels faster than any player - was always something my peers used to say, but like the football it is all about possession now.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3975 - 05/10/2023 08:48:26    2507003

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Replying To saorkick:  "As the late great Fr Tommy Maher said - the ball travels faster than any player.
If you're happy with the modern game that's fine but so many of the skills are not seen anymore like ground hurling and overhead striking. There was nothing more thrilling than a spate of back and forth ground hurling.
Nowadays some players choose extra short hurls for fear of being hooked. What next - tennis rackets ?
I'd love to see the sliotar revert to the specifications used in the 70s and 80s to reduce the ping pong scoring.
Give me the wristy hurlers any day over the hand-passing super-athletes."
The hurlers of today are as wristy as any there have ever been. Some of the skills shown by the top players in tight situations and under pressure are remarkable. Because they choose not to pull on the ball and give it straight back to the opposition, doesn't mean they can't strike it off the ground.
The modern game isn't perfect, but if I saw two teams hitting the ball back and forth to each other on the ground, thrilling wouldn't be what I'd be thinking.
Players try to win and keep possession these days. You can't score if you don't have the sliotar. I'll always maintain it's up to the other team to try to win it back. That's when you'll see contests.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 05/10/2023 10:27:38    2507014

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