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Ban The Hand Pass In Hurling. What Are The Alternatives?

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Zulu, you would swear the handpass/throw was the only foul that goes unpunished.I am on record as saying the amount of pulling and dragging that is perpetrated by Full Back Lines is totally unsightly and unsporting. I was laughed off by various people who said it 'all part of the game'. However when Gullane turned that tables on a long term Cork tormentor and won a very slightly dubious penalty all hell broke loose and some Cork Supporters were still writing to 'Da Paper' seven or eight weeks giving out yards about Limerick 'CHEATING' if you please. It was a great 'auld' spectator altogether. These people support a county that has five times our Hurling Population and they expect every 50/50 decision to go their way as a matter of right."
I see you get another dig in at Cork, on a thread which has no relevance to that penalty. People would think you actually played for Limerick, the way you carry on. You come across as a pathetic old man, little going on in life, so come on here bragging, and knocking competing teams. Good luck to you!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 385 - 14/08/2023 07:56:50    2500387

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Replying To Viking66:  "I actually think it's better than that. I watched the 96 final back there during the week. I can't say I noticed that there was less handpassing as such. There was alot more ground hurling, some of it very good. There were also a few attempts at overhead striking, most of which didn't connect with the ball. Or anything else except another hurl.
Never mind you and the other anti handpassing posters trying to find 20 illegal ones in any game, as there hasn't been anything forthcoming. Just out of interest do you know how many handpasses there were in total, legal and illegal, in this years AI Final?"
So rather than watching the whole game I watched the first 10 minutes of the second half of 3 matches.
1996 final-2 handpasses which averages 14 in the game
2009 final 5 handpasses which averages 35 in the game
2023 final 15 handpasses which averages 105 in the game and approx 35 of those of the very dodgy nature.
And for the record the 2009 final was the best for quality hurling IMO.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 14/08/2023 09:03:22    2500396

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "I see you get another dig in at Cork, on a thread which has no relevance to that penalty. People would think you actually played for Limerick, the way you carry on. You come across as a pathetic old man, little going on in life, so come on here bragging, and knocking competing teams. Good luck to you!"
Good Luck to you too, but I genuinely feel that there are issues other than handpassing that needs to be looking into. Persistent fouling is another one. How you or anyone else view me is of relevance to any adult discussion

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 14/08/2023 17:56:05    2500540

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "An average of 95 hand passes per game in this years Liam McCarthy competition. The poster who watched the 96 final and didn't see much difference in hand passing refuses to engage in the topic."
I'm fully engaged in the topic. But there's no real point arguing over it. The essential difference in opinion between me and you and the other posters complaining on this thread is that I've no problem with handpasses as generally they speed the game up and make it more entertaining. The reason I posted that I watched the 96 final back and didn't notice a huge difference in hand passes is because I didn't count them because they don't bother me. I'll no doubt watch some of the games I've recorded back this year as I always do, Wexford v Kilkenny, Clare v Tipp , Offaly v Carlow, and if I think of it I'll count the handpasses. But I'm telling you now I really couldn't give a #### if there are 40, 60, 80, 95 or 120. While I enjoy watching games back that I was at in the 90s, and watching games I never saw live from the 70s and 80s, the speed and skill compared to now is completely different. The games back then were slower and more disjointed, there were more hacks and general violent play, there was more aimless hoofing of the ball. The only thing I do miss about those times is that there was more goalmouth action, although generally since the rule changes to protect keepers in the late 70s,?, there were definitely less goals back then, despite there being more rucks under dropping balls in the penalty areas. As I posted before the 2 things I think should be being tackled in the modern game are dangerous fouls like shoulders to the head, and cynical fouls, especially those preventing a goal.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13890 - 15/08/2023 11:21:11    2500606

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Why go back to 1996, the short puck out was not even invented then and that is where all the problem starts from.The 2018 AISF (Cork v Limerick) was riddled with handpasses/throws the majority of them executed by Cork, but there was hardly a word about the problem after that game. How is it that it is only when Limerick got on top that this issue has got so hot."
Pure begrudery OTM.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13890 - 15/08/2023 11:21:59    2500607

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Surely diving and throwing yourself on the ground is a bigger blight on hurling than a few dodgy handpasses.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 847 - 15/08/2023 13:21:04    2500625

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Replying To updwell:  "Surely diving and throwing yourself on the ground is a bigger blight on hurling than a few dodgy handpasses."
It is. So is rugby tacking a fella who is through on goal. And shouldering a lad to the head could kill him stone dead.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13890 - 15/08/2023 16:03:41    2500661

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There seems to be a few Limerick posters who feel any discussion on the throw is somehow an attack on Limerick and the current Limerick team. It may be just coincidental that the game is now played with an average of 100 passes per game compared to 20 over 10 year ago and that Limerick happen to be on top. My contribution to this debate was never subjective and Ive said many times that the problem is across the board and one team is as bad as the next for throwing. Why do Limerick posters take a debate on throwing so personal?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 15/08/2023 16:22:08    2500665

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Ban all handling and we'll see who the real stick-men are then!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8678 - 15/08/2023 16:37:05    2500667

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Replying To realdub:  "Ban all handling and we'll see who the real stick-men are then!"
You can still see them, Limerick have fabulous stick men and all of them can hurl.Look at Quaid, Hannon, Nash, Dod, diarmuid Byrnes, cian Lynch, Peter Casey etc.. Killer first touch on the stick, accurate and crisp strikes each and every time. You can probably pick out some individuals who might be as good or better stick men but as a team from front to back no one comes close imo.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 15/08/2023 18:48:33    2500679

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Replying To ZUL10:  "There seems to be a few Limerick posters who feel any discussion on the throw is somehow an attack on Limerick and the current Limerick team. It may be just coincidental that the game is now played with an average of 100 passes per game compared to 20 over 10 year ago and that Limerick happen to be on top. My contribution to this debate was never subjective and Ive said many times that the problem is across the board and one team is as bad as the next for throwing. Why do Limerick posters take a debate on throwing so personal?"
Look back at 18 Semi Final and count all the handpasses!throws Cork gave and then ask why little ornobody complained about it until about three years later.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 16/08/2023 11:51:34    2500756

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Look back at 18 Semi Final and count all the handpasses!throws Cork gave and then ask why little ornobody complained about it until about three years later."
So I did that oldtourman and watched the first 10 mins of the second half as per my earlier post. There were 10 handpasses so an average of 70 for the game. Less than 2023 and more than 2009. The trend has been steadily upwards. You still see it as an attack on Limerick though?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 16/08/2023 21:44:35    2500886

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "You can still see them, Limerick have fabulous stick men and all of them can hurl.Look at Quaid, Hannon, Nash, Dod, diarmuid Byrnes, cian Lynch, Peter Casey etc.. Killer first touch on the stick, accurate and crisp strikes each and every time. You can probably pick out some individuals who might be as good or better stick men but as a team from front to back no one comes close imo."
Yeh great players, but from a spectator's point of view I think it would be beautiful and even more skilful.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8678 - 17/08/2023 12:50:53    2500967

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Replying To ZUL10:  "So I did that oldtourman and watched the first 10 mins of the second half as per my earlier post. There were 10 handpasses so an average of 70 for the game. Less than 2023 and more than 2009. The trend has been steadily upwards. You still see it as an attack on Limerick though?"
As you say Zulu, it was clearly already a problem in 2018. This has been steadily becoming a problem ever since the possession game came in, in the late nineties.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 18/08/2023 10:54:52    2501123

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Replying To ZUL10:  "There seems to be a few Limerick posters who feel any discussion on the throw is somehow an attack on Limerick and the current Limerick team. It may be just coincidental that the game is now played with an average of 100 passes per game compared to 20 over 10 year ago and that Limerick happen to be on top. My contribution to this debate was never subjective and Ive said many times that the problem is across the board and one team is as bad as the next for throwing. Why do Limerick posters take a debate on throwing so personal?"
Cause you see a problem that isn't there,the game is better now then 20 years ago,the skill level is better now then 20 years ago,we don't need to change the game of hurling,look at football,the countless rule changes and the game is only getting worse,what we need to do in hurling,is improve the counties outside of the top 9, major investment in those counties to bring them up to Liam standard not moaning about that handpasses that are too fast that you think is throwing.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 21/08/2023 12:42:29    2501578

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Calm down, its a discussion board.
In your opinion they were legal "when looked back", but the referee on the spot didn't get a chance to look back, everything is easy with a replay.
Most referees would make the perfect decision if they had a replay. But they don't. They have a split second to adjudicate a throw or a handpass. Which is an impossible task.
They will get them wrong until there's a proper rule which they can rule on. I see handpasses in every match even at underage (which is where I see most matches) which are dubious. If there had to be clear sight between the ball and hand, or it be played off the hand, that anomaly goes away.
I know 2 referees in Wexford and they say the hardest rule by a mile to judge is the handpass - "because it is arbitary and impossible to judge a throw or a handpass". The words of one of them.
Do you not want a rule that is clear and unambiguous?"
You totally miss understood what I was saying.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 21/08/2023 12:45:50    2501579

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Replying To cityman73:  "Cause you see a problem that isn't there,the game is better now then 20 years ago,the skill level is better now then 20 years ago,we don't need to change the game of hurling,look at football,the countless rule changes and the game is only getting worse,what we need to do in hurling,is improve the counties outside of the top 9, major investment in those counties to bring them up to Liam standard not moaning about that handpasses that are too fast that you think is throwing."
Spot on. More needs to be spent on the middle tier counties to help the hurling men there. Time and money.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13890 - 21/08/2023 13:14:39    2501590

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Replying To Viking66:  "Spot on. More needs to be spent on the middle tier counties to help the hurling men there. Time and money."
Raise ye're own money hurling snobs.
Time we football people stopped subsidising yer minority sport.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1963 - 21/08/2023 15:32:02    2501627

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Replying To cityman73:  "Cause you see a problem that isn't there,the game is better now then 20 years ago,the skill level is better now then 20 years ago,we don't need to change the game of hurling,look at football,the countless rule changes and the game is only getting worse,what we need to do in hurling,is improve the counties outside of the top 9, major investment in those counties to bring them up to Liam standard not moaning about that handpasses that are too fast that you think is throwing."
There is no difference between a throw and one of your super fast hand passes except your delusional eyesight sees it as a great skill. Please spare me the notion that there is somehow a big difference between the 2.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 21/08/2023 15:58:08    2501637

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Raise ye're own money hurling snobs.
Time we football people stopped subsidising yer minority sport."
I belong to a club where all our adult players play both football and hurling. All my kids get the same hours of coaching and matches at football and hurling. I'm a mentor for 1 of their teams and we spend exactly the same time coaching both sports. The GAA was formed to promote both equally and that's what I, my family, and club, do. Maybe lads like you should just #### off and form some sort of GFA because you aren't being true to the ethos of the GAA and therefore don't belong in it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13890 - 21/08/2023 16:24:33    2501645

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