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Ban The Hand Pass In Hurling. What Are The Alternatives?

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As I've said in the title the hand/throw pass has to go. How does the GAA fix it. Do they ban it or it has to be so exaggerated that the ref can see it from any angle. It'll slow the game down a bit but it's making a mockery of the game. Why am I teaching my kids how to handpass properly when the rule is not being enforced.
All and any suggestions welcomed.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 02/08/2023 11:39:17    2498557

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "As I've said in the title the hand/throw pass has to go. How does the GAA fix it. Do they ban it or it has to be so exaggerated that the ref can see it from any angle. It'll slow the game down a bit but it's making a mockery of the game. Why am I teaching my kids how to handpass properly when the rule is not being enforced.
All and any suggestions welcomed."
I said before that I think it is a problem that is greatly over blown. Refs were obviously concentrating on it more last year and earlier in year and it was causing more harm than good.

If it is hard to tell the difference then what difference does it make? What is the tiny margin in the time it takes to execute a legitimate hand pass as opposed to what still looks close enough to not be called back?

Obvious throws are easy enough to spot and no one gives out about them being called.

Only solution is to ban handpass but surely the alternative of lads being bottled up with no recourse is worse? There is a reason why it is there in first place.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 02/08/2023 13:08:47    2498596

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The obvious alternative to banning it is not to ban it.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 02/08/2023 13:23:51    2498601

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "As I've said in the title the hand/throw pass has to go. How does the GAA fix it. Do they ban it or it has to be so exaggerated that the ref can see it from any angle. It'll slow the game down a bit but it's making a mockery of the game. Why am I teaching my kids how to handpass properly when the rule is not being enforced.
All and any suggestions welcomed."
Maybe just ask the lads to slow it down so you can see it or maybe press slow play on your TV, problem sorted.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 02/08/2023 13:33:22    2498603

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Replying To cityman73:  "Maybe just ask the lads to slow it down so you can see it or maybe press slow play on your TV, problem sorted."
Seen plenty of it in mullingar at the league match. Take off your green tinted glasses for the minute. All teams are at it it's a cancer on the game. Westmeath were penalised in the first minute for a throw, after that limerick took great care making sure to take proper hand passes until it was thrown from a ruck or the refs view was obscured. Plenty of Westmeath fans pointing that out to the ref and the limerick's supporters view of it was look straight ahead, don't react as if it never happened. If it's allowed continue Hurling might as well do away with the hurl and just throw the ball, that's where it's headed. Ground hurling and the overhead double would get you sent off now. Skills now lacking in the game.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 02/08/2023 13:45:01    2498608

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I said before that I think it is a problem that is greatly over blown. Refs were obviously concentrating on it more last year and earlier in year and it was causing more harm than good.

If it is hard to tell the difference then what difference does it make? What is the tiny margin in the time it takes to execute a legitimate hand pass as opposed to what still looks close enough to not be called back?

Obvious throws are easy enough to spot and no one gives out about them being called.

Only solution is to ban handpass but surely the alternative of lads being bottled up with no recourse is worse? There is a reason why it is there in first place."
Use those bloody big sticks to hit the ball.
Let hands be only for catching it.
If lads bottle up a buck with the ball well done to them.
He'll play it quicker the next time.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1954 - 02/08/2023 15:11:00    2498662

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "Seen plenty of it in mullingar at the league match. Take off your green tinted glasses for the minute. All teams are at it it's a cancer on the game. Westmeath were penalised in the first minute for a throw, after that limerick took great care making sure to take proper hand passes until it was thrown from a ruck or the refs view was obscured. Plenty of Westmeath fans pointing that out to the ref and the limerick's supporters view of it was look straight ahead, don't react as if it never happened. If it's allowed continue Hurling might as well do away with the hurl and just throw the ball, that's where it's headed. Ground hurling and the overhead double would get you sent off now. Skills now lacking in the game."
Good ground hurling won't get you sent off. Flailing wildly with the hurl in a ruck or crowd will. Likewise overhead striking. Nothing wrong with good handpasses either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 02/08/2023 15:28:31    2498670

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I said before that I think it is a problem that is greatly over blown. Refs were obviously concentrating on it more last year and earlier in year and it was causing more harm than good.

If it is hard to tell the difference then what difference does it make? What is the tiny margin in the time it takes to execute a legitimate hand pass as opposed to what still looks close enough to not be called back?

Obvious throws are easy enough to spot and no one gives out about them being called.

Only solution is to ban handpass but surely the alternative of lads being bottled up with no recourse is worse? There is a reason why it is there in first place."
Under arm handpass only allowed off the hurl.

If a player is bottled up he can pass over arm (which to be fair is what most do) or else drop and kick free.

Would seem a simple enough remedy to me.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 02/08/2023 15:30:23    2498671

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "Seen plenty of it in mullingar at the league match. Take off your green tinted glasses for the minute. All teams are at it it's a cancer on the game. Westmeath were penalised in the first minute for a throw, after that limerick took great care making sure to take proper hand passes until it was thrown from a ruck or the refs view was obscured. Plenty of Westmeath fans pointing that out to the ref and the limerick's supporters view of it was look straight ahead, don't react as if it never happened. If it's allowed continue Hurling might as well do away with the hurl and just throw the ball, that's where it's headed. Ground hurling and the overhead double would get you sent off now. Skills now lacking in the game."
Of course ground Hurling and the over head pull are gone. Why give your opponents a 50/50 chance of getting the ball. That day is long gone. Every sport changes. Back in 1897, in an All Ireland Final in Tipperary Town, Kilfinane brought a then new fangled idea to the game called Hook and Block and completely upset and defeated their more fancied KK opponents. People said it would ruin the game, but it never did and it is now a recognised skill of the game today. In the 1930s Mick Mackey started to solo with the ball, much to the horror of the then traditionalists. However it is an essential part of the skill set of many fine players to day. The aim of it of course was to keep the ball away from the opposition as the Handpass does also. Limerick Supporters are quite blase about it, and whether it is continued or not as we have every confidence that it would matter not a whit to our sides chances of winning or loosing. The fact is no team do stick passes, long or short, and no team scores more long range point, even under the strongest pressure, as our side do as players like Peter Casey, Kyle Hayes, Darragh O'Donavan, Gillane, Cathal O'Neill and Lynch, among others, have shown all the year.
I would remind you also that nobody was whinging about the Hand Pass in 2018. In the Limerick/Cork All Ireland Semi Final Cork were leading by six points with 7 minutes of game time left. My friend said 'Let's go home, we are beat'. I said 'NO,hold on, Cork have done so much running and hand passing of the ball they are bound to die out'.Almost immediately Cork died on their feet and conceded seven points in a row. In The 2021 Final Cork scored a goal in the first Minute of the game. In the build up to that score there was nine hand Passes/?throws. How is that not one of you people, who are so exercised about hand passing, have ever mentioned Throwing or what ever as a Cork problem.
Methinks more than Limerick and Irish Jerseys are green.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 02/08/2023 16:00:52    2498678

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Use those bloody big sticks to hit the ball.
Let hands be only for catching it.
If lads bottle up a buck with the ball well done to them.
He'll play it quicker the next time."
Belting the ball aimlessly down the field is dead and gone and with O'Leary in the grave.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 02/08/2023 16:02:38    2498679

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Option 1. There has to be a clear distance of 3-4 inches between the ball and hand. It should be so obvious.
Option 2: Leave as is, reduce the amount of it by making it that you can only handpass if you don't receive a handpass.
Option 3: Make it that it has to be off the hurl, removing any grey area.
Option 4: Combine 2 and 3 (you can only handpass if you don't receive a handpass, and it has to be off the hurl)

A far bigger problem is how charging is enforced in the game if you ask me. Player gets bottled up, charges into somebody, wins free. Never a free in a million years any of these.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 02/08/2023 16:12:48    2498684

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Replying To tearintom:  "Under arm handpass only allowed off the hurl.

If a player is bottled up he can pass over arm (which to be fair is what most do) or else drop and kick free.

Would seem a simple enough remedy to me."
Wouldn't be able kick it free when bottled up. No room to look down as you drop it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 02/08/2023 16:16:24    2498689

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Option 1. There has to be a clear distance of 3-4 inches between the ball and hand. It should be so obvious.
Option 2: Leave as is, reduce the amount of it by making it that you can only handpass if you don't receive a handpass.
Option 3: Make it that it has to be off the hurl, removing any grey area.
Option 4: Combine 2 and 3 (you can only handpass if you don't receive a handpass, and it has to be off the hurl)

A far bigger problem is how charging is enforced in the game if you ask me. Player gets bottled up, charges into somebody, wins free. Never a free in a million years any of these."
Limerick used option 3 alot this year. And short stick passes.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 02/08/2023 16:17:37    2498693

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Replying To Viking66:  "Wouldn't be able kick it free when bottled up. No room to look down as you drop it."
The options ought to favour the player in possession. As said previously there are good reasons why handpass is allowed in both games. The speed at which the inter county game is played means that if there was no handpass, the rules would favour smothering the player in possession. Would be unsightly mess, whereas moving ball at speed makes for a good spectacle and players themselves obviously prefer it.

If refs cannot sport the difference between most "throws" and most legitimate handpasses, and supporters only get riled when it is called up on their own side, then its hardly worth losing sleep over.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 02/08/2023 16:35:16    2498704

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Of course ground Hurling and the over head pull are gone. Why give your opponents a 50/50 chance of getting the ball. That day is long gone. Every sport changes. Back in 1897, in an All Ireland Final in Tipperary Town, Kilfinane brought a then new fangled idea to the game called Hook and Block and completely upset and defeated their more fancied KK opponents. People said it would ruin the game, but it never did and it is now a recognised skill of the game today. In the 1930s Mick Mackey started to solo with the ball, much to the horror of the then traditionalists. However it is an essential part of the skill set of many fine players to day. The aim of it of course was to keep the ball away from the opposition as the Handpass does also. Limerick Supporters are quite blase about it, and whether it is continued or not as we have every confidence that it would matter not a whit to our sides chances of winning or loosing. The fact is no team do stick passes, long or short, and no team scores more long range point, even under the strongest pressure, as our side do as players like Peter Casey, Kyle Hayes, Darragh O'Donavan, Gillane, Cathal O'Neill and Lynch, among others, have shown all the year.
I would remind you also that nobody was whinging about the Hand Pass in 2018. In the Limerick/Cork All Ireland Semi Final Cork were leading by six points with 7 minutes of game time left. My friend said 'Let's go home, we are beat'. I said 'NO,hold on, Cork have done so much running and hand passing of the ball they are bound to die out'.Almost immediately Cork died on their feet and conceded seven points in a row. In The 2021 Final Cork scored a goal in the first Minute of the game. In the build up to that score there was nine hand Passes/?throws. How is that not one of you people, who are so exercised about hand passing, have ever mentioned Throwing or what ever as a Cork problem.
Methinks more than Limerick and Irish Jerseys are green."
I used the Westmeath game as I was there read back my post I said everyone is at it. It's being going on years and whatever way you take that's fine. It's not hurling.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 02/08/2023 16:38:48    2498707

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Tap it off the hurl and follow through with the palmed pass.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2889 - 02/08/2023 18:49:45    2498740

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I've perused the rules of hurling online. Not sure if it was the most up to date edition but from what I could see, and unless I'm mistaken, the actual handpass itself is not defined.

Rule 4.2 states the ball may not be "thrown". But again, the "throw" is not defined either! And when something is not defined, it leaves it wide open to interpretation.

Most of the "throwy" handpasses are probably not throws in the purest sense of the word, it's usually the player flicking the ball off his fingers. Not a clear striking motion but not a "throw" per se either. A grey area in between which the rulebook seems to accommodate.

I was certain there'd be a paragraph stating that a handpass is where the ball is transferred from one player to another with a clear striking motion of the hand, which would provide a bit of clarity, but nope, nothing!

Any rules experts out there, has the handpass been defined in the latest rules of the game?!

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 02/08/2023 20:15:24    2498751

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Use those bloody big sticks to hit the ball.
Let hands be only for catching it.
If lads bottle up a buck with the ball well done to them.
He'll play it quicker the next time."
There was forty five scores in Croke Park on Final and many of them were from way out the field and wonderful to behold and all off the bas of the hurley. Camans will not become redundant anytime soon

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 03/08/2023 07:25:40    2498775

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "There was forty five scores in Croke Park on Final and many of them were from way out the field and wonderful to behold and all off the bas of the hurley. Camans will not become redundant anytime soon"
Not implying that this is the case with the original post, but there are people who see the handpass issue and others as sneaky way of getting at Limerick. Same of course happened with the Cats ten years ago, and the Dublin footballers, and indeed the Tyrone footballers.

Always someone trying to drag down excellence.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 03/08/2023 09:43:02    2498784

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The options ought to favour the player in possession. As said previously there are good reasons why handpass is allowed in both games. The speed at which the inter county game is played means that if there was no handpass, the rules would favour smothering the player in possession. Would be unsightly mess, whereas moving ball at speed makes for a good spectacle and players themselves obviously prefer it.

If refs cannot sport the difference between most "throws" and most legitimate handpasses, and supporters only get riled when it is called up on their own side, then its hardly worth losing sleep over."
Agreed. I think it's a storm in a teacup myself.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13866 - 03/08/2023 09:45:45    2498786

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