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Replying To Viking66: "The Kilkenny model is a good one. In our case though it would mean clubs not having county players for a large chunk of the League part with the intercounty season as it is." But just to show I don't always agree with you! :)
Not a big fan of the Kilkenny model myself. It's basically the equivalent of our All County League, with everybody then going through to a knock-out championship, with the point at which you enter the championship being determined by your finishing position in the league.
It actually offers significantly fewer games to the club player. Instead of five or six games in our League, a potential semi-final and final, five round-robin games in our Championship, and then potentially up to three more, all you'd be guaranteed is one set of round-robin matches and then one or two knock-out ones.
The question "how are Kilkenny so good then, if they give so few club games?" is one that I can't answer here!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2615 - 22/08/2023 16:17:28
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Replying To Viking66: "That will be good news for the Harriers, Rathnure, Oulart and the big clubs who have less cross over between their hurling and football 1st teams. Bad news for smaller dual clubs. And might be very bad news for Tara Rocks if alot of the Kilanerin men stick to the big ball." Was it not the harriers who pushed for the current system?
Have to say from a supporter point of view it should change.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 23/08/2023 07:35:57
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Replying To MyOhMi: "Reading Michéal Martins notes in the county final programme and his opinion is that the alternative weeks approach is the way forward .. I'd say for 2024 that is what will happen" I don't think Michael Martin gets the final say! At the end of the day it will be down to the clubs to vote on whatever proposals are brought to the table. Same as this year.
Michael Martin has done some savage work in Wexford, mainly financially orientated though. I don't think we should be relying on him to solve actual issues with fixtures, no offence intended.
rossytilidie (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 23/08/2023 09:21:57
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Replying To rossytilidie: "I don't think Michael Martin gets the final say! At the end of the day it will be down to the clubs to vote on whatever proposals are brought to the table. Same as this year.
Michael Martin has done some savage work in Wexford, mainly financially orientated though. I don't think we should be relying on him to solve actual issues with fixtures, no offence intended." This is true and last year management (Martin's team) would have suggested to clubs to move to smaller groups (fewer games) and in doing so creating space. Clubs choose the continue with the current structure which is flawed but has its merits too.
I wouldn't be a mad fan of the week on week off schedule but given we must work with the split intercounty season and have set certain preconditions locally we're boxed in and its about least worst options its seems.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 23/08/2023 10:30:26
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Replying To MyOhMi: "it is the bigger dual clubs who blocked this last year .. the current system suits them as they can concentrate on one code .. smaller dual clubs might not bother with football .. call a spade a spade but it plays second fiddle
By the way - Oulart have two adult football teams entered this year!" We are a smaller dual club and i can tell ye we would be delighted if it returned to alternate blocks rather than this situation we have.
Either that or go with the current system and let football first alternating every year (which we all know has no chance of happening)
The ironic thing is this year there has been loads of talk about there not being a break and that a break is needed which could have actually happened if we did go with football first.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1423 - 23/08/2023 10:36:56
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This board is great. Everyone wants Wexford to do well but anything which means more hurling for the club player is flawed, pointless, won't work.
And considering only a month ago people were complaining about the championship being run too quickly. Yet mention more hurling, and its a bad idea. Why?
I don't know if a Winter league on a 4G pitch would work but I as sure as hell would try it. I wouldn't be bothered on a grass pitch either. I love the idea, and the only issue I'd see is where to train for it.
Of our Aussie Rules team, some are going playing cricket for the summer but they describe it as a "way of passing time and getting a few beers afterwards" while taking the footy really serious. Having played soccer in Wexford and Dublin, I know the game in Wexford bar the top division or towards the end of the season is a pub game in all but name. You can smell the drink in the dressing room before the matches.
And mark this - in 12 months if hurling focused clubs win the county titles, the clamour will be that they have it too easy having a week off between games.
If people mistake Oulart fielding 2 teams as having an interest in football, delusion is the word. What good is the gate of the GAA pitch closed by the end of August is why. Might as well field. But beware any matches on the weekend of Electric Picnic, you might find out what they think of football then!
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1784 - 23/08/2023 11:08:39
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Replying To Viking66: "Just out of interest I looked up who had won the Senior Hurling title each year since Independence for the 26 counties. Ross District teams won 15 of the 1st 20 Senior hurling championships up until the end of WW2, but have only won 1 since!" One reason the Ross District clubs are improving is Good Counsel, the school with the best GAA coaching programme in Wexford for decades now. Also I would give some credit to the much maligned underage development squads. Committed players getting a good stadard of coaching, S +C and skills training. Working in a healthy environment, bringing that back to their clubs.
If we go back to blocks (and we probably will, probably two-three weeks at a time), a lot of players may drop one code, or only play their non-preferred code at a lower level. The demands are so great now on players, it is hard to peak for two codes simultaneously.
wendellgee (Wexford) - Posts: 29 - 23/08/2023 11:24:43
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Replying To alwaysasub: "The football league especially has been a joke. I did a post earlier in the year showing the drop off of clubs entering in the football league. Hopefully when it returns to alternative weekends next season, at least clubs playing football league will be playing towards championship, not waiting around for 9 weeks before they play again." I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all -
https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607
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Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2615 - 23/08/2023 12:00:38
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Replying To StoreysTash: "This board is great. Everyone wants Wexford to do well but anything which means more hurling for the club player is flawed, pointless, won't work.
And considering only a month ago people were complaining about the championship being run too quickly. Yet mention more hurling, and its a bad idea. Why?
I don't know if a Winter league on a 4G pitch would work but I as sure as hell would try it. I wouldn't be bothered on a grass pitch either. I love the idea, and the only issue I'd see is where to train for it.
Of our Aussie Rules team, some are going playing cricket for the summer but they describe it as a "way of passing time and getting a few beers afterwards" while taking the footy really serious. Having played soccer in Wexford and Dublin, I know the game in Wexford bar the top division or towards the end of the season is a pub game in all but name. You can smell the drink in the dressing room before the matches.
And mark this - in 12 months if hurling focused clubs win the county titles, the clamour will be that they have it too easy having a week off between games.
If people mistake Oulart fielding 2 teams as having an interest in football, delusion is the word. What good is the gate of the GAA pitch closed by the end of August is why. Might as well field. But beware any matches on the weekend of Electric Picnic, you might find out what they think of football then!" Tash, with all due respect, I've been around a lot longer than yourself and in a far greater variety of roles, as player, coach, and administrator at club level for many years and at county level for a few.
I've seen all sorts of things tried over the years, and based on experience, have a good understanding of what might work, what probably wouldn't, and what the potential pitfalls are of something that might seem like a good idea at the outset.
You even introduce a pitfall of the Winter League idea yourself there - if you have a match in a 4G Winter League on a Saturday night, where are you supposed to train for it during the week? On your own pitch that's probably boggy and with long grass because it's too wet to mow, and if you even have floodlights yourself in the first place?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2615 - 23/08/2023 12:11:54
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Replying To StoreysTash: "This board is great. Everyone wants Wexford to do well but anything which means more hurling for the club player is flawed, pointless, won't work.
And considering only a month ago people were complaining about the championship being run too quickly. Yet mention more hurling, and its a bad idea. Why?
I don't know if a Winter league on a 4G pitch would work but I as sure as hell would try it. I wouldn't be bothered on a grass pitch either. I love the idea, and the only issue I'd see is where to train for it.
Of our Aussie Rules team, some are going playing cricket for the summer but they describe it as a "way of passing time and getting a few beers afterwards" while taking the footy really serious. Having played soccer in Wexford and Dublin, I know the game in Wexford bar the top division or towards the end of the season is a pub game in all but name. You can smell the drink in the dressing room before the matches.
And mark this - in 12 months if hurling focused clubs win the county titles, the clamour will be that they have it too easy having a week off between games.
If people mistake Oulart fielding 2 teams as having an interest in football, delusion is the word. What good is the gate of the GAA pitch closed by the end of August is why. Might as well field. But beware any matches on the weekend of Electric Picnic, you might find out what they think of football then!" At present we don't have a single 4G pitch, we should have one at Ferns anyway but they cost circa €1m. Wonder is there one in the plans?
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 23/08/2023 12:19:43
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Replying To Pikeman96: "But just to show I don't always agree with you! :)
Not a big fan of the Kilkenny model myself. It's basically the equivalent of our All County League, with everybody then going through to a knock-out championship, with the point at which you enter the championship being determined by your finishing position in the league.
It actually offers significantly fewer games to the club player. Instead of five or six games in our League, a potential semi-final and final, five round-robin games in our Championship, and then potentially up to three more, all you'd be guaranteed is one set of round-robin matches and then one or two knock-out ones.
The question "how are Kilkenny so good then, if they give so few club games?" is one that I can't answer here!" The reason I was suggesting it was so that our club championships didn't have to be so congested. Games every week!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:31:50
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Replying To alwaysasub: "Delighted to hear this, championship over in a few week. Bit of common sense, lads gets injured and misses all his championship. Every club favours one code over the other so see no issue with this." That post gives the impression you know nothing about the club scene at all if you think every club favours one code over another.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:33:36
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Replying To MyOhMi: "it is the bigger dual clubs who blocked this last year .. the current system suits them as they can concentrate on one code .. smaller dual clubs might not bother with football .. call a spade a spade but it plays second fiddle
By the way - Oulart have two adult football teams entered this year!" I know I was ribbing Mick Jacob about it at the weekend! We are a smaller dual club. Football definitely doesn't play second fiddle and neither does hurling. The majority of clubs in this county have 1st teams at the same grade or only 1 grade apart.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:38:32
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Replying To MyOhMi: "Reading Michéal Martins notes in the county final programme and his opinion is that the alternative weeks approach is the way forward .. I'd say for 2024 that is what will happen" I hope not.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:42:48
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Replying To Pikeman96: "A fair point too. Also take out the lads who actually prefer to play soccer at that time of year, as a change from hurling. You could end up with more of a "social hurling" kind of thing than something that would be taken seriously any way at all." Most of our lads play soccer in the winter. Adult and underage.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:44:22
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Replying To tearintom: "We are a smaller dual club and i can tell ye we would be delighted if it returned to alternate blocks rather than this situation we have.
Either that or go with the current system and let football first alternating every year (which we all know has no chance of happening)
The ironic thing is this year there has been loads of talk about there not being a break and that a break is needed which could have actually happened if we did go with football first." The way the weather has been this July and August, which apart from last year is the usual in this country, football first might actually mean better pitches and weather for hurling, not worse.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:46:32
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Replying To wendellgee: "One reason the Ross District clubs are improving is Good Counsel, the school with the best GAA coaching programme in Wexford for decades now. Also I would give some credit to the much maligned underage development squads. Committed players getting a good stadard of coaching, S +C and skills training. Working in a healthy environment, bringing that back to their clubs.
If we go back to blocks (and we probably will, probably two-three weeks at a time), a lot of players may drop one code, or only play their non-preferred code at a lower level. The demands are so great now on players, it is hard to peak for two codes simultaneously." Most clubs won't be able to field a competitive team in both codes if players drop one.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:48:59
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link"
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 23/08/2023 12:49:41
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link"
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 443 - 23/08/2023 13:28:32
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Replying To alwaysasub: " Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" I'd love to post you a link but for some reason on Hoganstand it wont let me go past page 26. Is anyone else having the same problem? Can see older posts on this topic."
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 443 - 23/08/2023 13:33:02
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