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Replying To Barrowsider: "Well we now have all our final pairings. Rathvilly vs palatine should be a good game, brendan Murphy is in great form and I think he could swing this one Brandon kelly I would hope to see in a carlow jersey next year a very exciting talent these past couple of years. Palatine have match winners too though and have serious pace right throughout the team. It's great to see some younger players starting to emerge in these clubs both finalists have a nice blend of youth and experience.
Intermediate will see fenagh vs kildavin/clonegal it's hard to see anyone but fenagh in this, but credit to kildavin for pushing those minor players right into the first team. Jake nolan is an exciting forward and another I'd be expecting to play inter County down the line. Fenagh have improved as the year has gone on and you would expect them to prevail here
Junior A sees leighlin bridge play ballon. Leighlin are unbeaten in league and championship this year and had to win ugly today against the cocks that might just stand to them. Ballon are the coming team though they have some really top class underage player coming on line and if they don't do it this year it's only a matter of time before they do, I'll go with leighlin here, I think their time has come.
I think as these championships have developed so to the standard has improved. As far as I can tell there isn't much of a difference between junior and Intermediate clonmore tullow fenagh and myshall have all been junior in recent years and 2 of those have also went senior while tullow and myshall have maintained their status. Personally I'd like an enlarged Intermediate possibly a ten team two groups of 5, I think the extra games would be very beneficial for the development of clubs at that level, if that meant a less competitive junior so be it.
I think for senior I'd move away from these groups of 4 instead I'd have 4 rounds where you can play anyone with the top 4 at the end making semis and bottom 4 relegation semis. Something a bit different and create a bit of excitement in the unknown." Agree about Brandon Kelly,jake Nolan. They look very exciting, add in the likes of oisin Doyle josh Egan and you have some very decent forwards around. Good backs are like hens teeth tho.
Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 284 - 23/09/2024 10:39:31
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Replying To Overthebar53: "Agree about Brandon Kelly,jake Nolan. They look very exciting, add in the likes of oisin Doyle josh Egan and you have some very decent forwards around. Good backs are like hens teeth tho." Hard to find good backs when everyone is playing defensive systems so where before you would be after that tight marker now you're looking at lads who are good positionally and can work well in a unit.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 23/09/2024 14:38:05
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Replying To CARPS: "That was some game last night. We are very fortunate in that we have four very good senior teams at the moment.
This is not the case in most counties. There are usually just one or two dominant teams.
There's the basis of a decent county team - based on Eire Og, Palatine, Rathvilly and Old Leighlin alone - there if everyone can be enticed to go in.
And surely likes of MLR, Bagenalstown, Tinryland, Clonmore, Fenagh, Kildavin, Grange, Tullow etc have at least one or two players?" This is 100% accurate. Pick the county team from the top 4 senior clubs, end of, bar a complete outlier and exceptional junior or intermediate. For example, a junior clubs 2nd best player being brought in and a top senior clubs 9th or 10 best player not being brought in, even though the senior is better. It's hard to compare, but if you score 5 points per junior game, it doesn't mean you're a county player..
CW88 (Carlow) - Posts: 29 - 24/09/2024 15:59:28
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Replying To CW88: "This is 100% accurate. Pick the county team from the top 4 senior clubs, end of, bar a complete outlier and exceptional junior or intermediate. For example, a junior clubs 2nd best player being brought in and a top senior clubs 9th or 10 best player not being brought in, even though the senior is better. It's hard to compare, but if you score 5 points per junior game, it doesn't mean you're a county player.." Is that not the way it has been for the last couple of years or longer? There's always 10 or 11 starters out of 15 from the top 4 clubs
Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 144 - 26/09/2024 09:50:42
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Paul O'Brien stepped away as Mount Leinster Rangers gaffer.
LimerickForLiam24 (Limerick) - Posts: 143 - 26/09/2024 14:27:24
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Great win for Carlow town/Setanta in the u16 div1A final last night against a good Burren rangers side in bad conditions. There was quality hurling played by both sides. Ct/setanta never let br settle in to the game and used their pace to take them on at every opportunity. Some well taken scores too. Can only be good for hurling in the county seeing these clubs progress. This follows on from cthc winning the u14A title just a couple of weeks back.
Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 90 - 27/09/2024 11:47:10
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Replying To Unusedsub: "Great win for Carlow town/Setanta in the u16 div1A final last night against a good Burren rangers side in bad conditions. There was quality hurling played by both sides. Ct/setanta never let br settle in to the game and used their pace to take them on at every opportunity. Some well taken scores too. Can only be good for hurling in the county seeing these clubs progress. This follows on from cthc winning the u14A title just a couple of weeks back." Great to see it. 100% agree. The problem, however, with both clubs is player retention as chaps get older. Especially given they pull from multiple football clubs.
This is what dragged down Naomh Brid.
The way forward is genuine dual clubs, in my view.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 27/09/2024 14:01:27
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Replying To CARPS: "Great to see it. 100% agree. The problem, however, with both clubs is player retention as chaps get older. Especially given they pull from multiple football clubs.
This is what dragged down Naomh Brid.
The way forward is genuine dual clubs, in my view." A good win for The Town plus Setanta.
Massive win but to hold these young men together has been the biggest challenge.
Football is a big factor. Respect sadly is not there from the football clubs towards hurling and many players have understandably chosen football or put it a different way have been gently persuaded and sometimes more than gently persuaded to play football ONLY.
The one club model is the ideal way forward where football and hurling are played within the one club
That would be ideal but in Carlow town and being realistic about it- football.clubs have absolutely NO interest in hurling and the opposite is also true !
Hard to see how hurling can actually develop properly within Naomh Brid also as they experience similar problems to Carlow Town.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1849 - 27/09/2024 17:50:09
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Replying To CARPS: "Great to see it. 100% agree. The problem, however, with both clubs is player retention as chaps get older. Especially given they pull from multiple football clubs.
This is what dragged down Naomh Brid.
The way forward is genuine dual clubs, in my view." Aspirational but not practicable unfortunately until we get some enlightened thinking in the major football club in the town and not hypocritical rhetoric
Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 284 - 29/09/2024 00:00:04
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Football final weekend ! Huge games for so many clubs but especially Rathvilly and Palatine in the senior final on Sunday.
Hard to know how it will go!
I feel that Pal have the youth all over the field but especially the forwards to win.
Rathvilly have been impressive in defeating Bagenalstown Gaels while Palatine showed great resolve to fight back to defeat a strong Eire Og.
Hard to know but I go for a Pal win based on their strong bench which showed up well against Eire Og when needed.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1849 - 02/10/2024 18:15:43
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Great weekend of football ahead. Firstly best of luck to all the clubs this weekend. And well done to the board for the county final bundle. 28 euro for 4 county finals is great value. 20 euro for student or oap. We are quick to criticise but they have to be commended on that
I'm going to go with rathvilly fenagh ballon and rathvilly but it will be no great shock if either team wins any of the finals.
I'm really looking forward to Sunday. I think the senior will be an exciting game and I expect the junior A to go down to the wire.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 04/10/2024 21:18:12
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The Curious Case of Conor Crowley
In the build up to tomorrow's 2024 Carlow senior football county final between Rathvilly v Palatine most punters previewing the game are probably focused on the key players and matchups. When considering Palatine, the first 2 players that come to mind in terms of scoring threat are Shane O'Neill and Conor Crowley. Stylistically two very different players but effective and work well together. O'Neill is a seasoned free taker with a prolific scoring track record and has averaged 3.75 pts per game so far in this years championship. Crowley on the other hand who is a very talented player, has only averaged 1.3 pts per game (noted that he didn't feature v Clonmore). It's understood that Crowley offers more than scoring and can be a useful playmaker winning frees which O'Neill often converts, however it does beg the question; Should Crowley be more prolific in the scoring stakes?
The 2022 Carlow Senior footballer of the year has shown in the past that he has the ability to score more when he amassed 2-11 in Pal's 2022 winning season over the course of 5 games which averages out at an 3.4 pts per game. This scoring form has not been shown since, last year in Palatine's disappointing 2023 season Crowley failed to register a score until the last group game where Pal were defeated by Eire Og with Crowley notching 0-3 (0-1f) which confined Palatine to a relegation game against Fenagh. To Crowley's credit he really showed his quality in the relegation battle amounting a personal tally of 0-8 (0-6f) out of a total of 0-15 pts to Fenaghs 0-10. Nevertheless technically the relegation final is a separate competition to the Carlow senior Football Championship therefore statistically Crowley scored 3pts in the 2023 Carlow SFC.
On the county scene, in the 2023 season Crowley scored 0-9 points in 11 games averaging 0.81 scores per game which for a marque forward is slightly short of what you would expect when compared to statistics from our other marque forward the likes of Foley, Hulton and Dunphy.
Carlow intercounty season stats 2023
Foley scored 1-97 (0-79f) in 15 games ave 6.6 ppg
Dunphy scored 1-21 (0-0f) in 13 games ave 1.84 ppg
Hulton scored 1-12 (0-0f) in 15 games ave 1 ppg
Crowley scored 0-9 (0-0f) in 11 games ave 0.81 ppg
Carlow intercounty season stats 2024
Foley scored 1-42 (0-30f) in 10 games ave 4.5 ppg
Dunphy scored 0-12 (0-2f) in 12 games ave 1 ppg
Hulton 12 games 2-14 (0-3f) in 12 games ave 1.6 ppg
Crowley 11 games 1-11 (0-2f) in 11 games ave 1.27 ppg
Over the past two intercounty seasons, Crowley scored 1-20 (0-2f) in 22 games an average of 1.04 pts per game. In the past two Carlow senior football club championship seasons Crowley scored 0-7 (0-2f) in 6 games averaging 1.16 pts per game.
Reviewing these statistics I predict Crowley to score no more than 0-2 pts in tomorrows county final. If this transpires it might put additional pressure on the rest of the Palatine forwards if they are to be crowned 2024 champions. If we allow Shane O'Neill to go slightly above his average and score 4 pts, Pal will then look to Bryan McMahon, Josh Egan, Jamie Kenny, Andrew Kehoe and Ciaran Moran for scores, for argument sake allow each lf these to contribute 0-1 each and a bonus goal from either Deacy or Finbarr Kavanagh. This would leave Palatine with a final score of 1-11 (0-14).
Can Rathvilly score more than my hypothetical score prediction for Palatine of 0-14 pts?
Potential player of the year candidate Kevin Murphy has averaged 4.8 pts per game this year, let's round him down to 0-4 for the final. Eric Molloy has scored 2-4 in 5 games an average of 0-2 let's say he continues this form with another 0-2 in the final. Both Brandon Kelly and Conor Doyle have averaged 1.2 pts per game so far this year. Brendan Murphy (who I believe is in with the county this year) will surely be good for scoring a point in the county final will get 0-1 along with another from Liam Gavin, Adam Burgess, Darragh Murphy and Jake Elliott and a goal from someone would leave Rathvilly with a total of 1-13.
Prediction: Rathvilly 1-13 - Palatine 1-11
Top scorers so far in this years championship:
1. Kevin Murphy - Rathvilly 3-15 (3-5 from play)
2. Cathal Coughlan - Old Leighlin 1-16 (1-9 from play)
3. Ross Dunphy - Eire Og 1-15 (1-10 from play)
4. Mikey Bambrick - Old Leighlin 3-7 (3-7 from play)
5. Shane O'Neill - Palatine 1-12 (1-7 from play)
6. Patrick McDonnell - Bagenalstown 1-14 (1-2 from play)
Carlowrising (Carlow) - Posts: 144 - 05/10/2024 12:15:00
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Replying To Carlowrising: "The Curious Case of Conor Crowley
In the build up to tomorrow's 2024 Carlow senior football county final between Rathvilly v Palatine most punters previewing the game are probably focused on the key players and matchups. When considering Palatine, the first 2 players that come to mind in terms of scoring threat are Shane O'Neill and Conor Crowley. Stylistically two very different players but effective and work well together. O'Neill is a seasoned free taker with a prolific scoring track record and has averaged 3.75 pts per game so far in this years championship. Crowley on the other hand who is a very talented player, has only averaged 1.3 pts per game (noted that he didn't feature v Clonmore). It's understood that Crowley offers more than scoring and can be a useful playmaker winning frees which O'Neill often converts, however it does beg the question; Should Crowley be more prolific in the scoring stakes?
The 2022 Carlow Senior footballer of the year has shown in the past that he has the ability to score more when he amassed 2-11 in Pal's 2022 winning season over the course of 5 games which averages out at an 3.4 pts per game. This scoring form has not been shown since, last year in Palatine's disappointing 2023 season Crowley failed to register a score until the last group game where Pal were defeated by Eire Og with Crowley notching 0-3 (0-1f) which confined Palatine to a relegation game against Fenagh. To Crowley's credit he really showed his quality in the relegation battle amounting a personal tally of 0-8 (0-6f) out of a total of 0-15 pts to Fenaghs 0-10. Nevertheless technically the relegation final is a separate competition to the Carlow senior Football Championship therefore statistically Crowley scored 3pts in the 2023 Carlow SFC.
On the county scene, in the 2023 season Crowley scored 0-9 points in 11 games averaging 0.81 scores per game which for a marque forward is slightly short of what you would expect when compared to statistics from our other marque forward the likes of Foley, Hulton and Dunphy.
Carlow intercounty season stats 2023
Foley scored 1-97 (0-79f) in 15 games ave 6.6 ppg
Dunphy scored 1-21 (0-0f) in 13 games ave 1.84 ppg
Hulton scored 1-12 (0-0f) in 15 games ave 1 ppg
Crowley scored 0-9 (0-0f) in 11 games ave 0.81 ppg
Carlow intercounty season stats 2024
Foley scored 1-42 (0-30f) in 10 games ave 4.5 ppg
Dunphy scored 0-12 (0-2f) in 12 games ave 1 ppg
Hulton 12 games 2-14 (0-3f) in 12 games ave 1.6 ppg
Crowley 11 games 1-11 (0-2f) in 11 games ave 1.27 ppg
Over the past two intercounty seasons, Crowley scored 1-20 (0-2f) in 22 games an average of 1.04 pts per game. In the past two Carlow senior football club championship seasons Crowley scored 0-7 (0-2f) in 6 games averaging 1.16 pts per game.
Reviewing these statistics I predict Crowley to score no more than 0-2 pts in tomorrows county final. If this transpires it might put additional pressure on the rest of the Palatine forwards if they are to be crowned 2024 champions. If we allow Shane O'Neill to go slightly above his average and score 4 pts, Pal will then look to Bryan McMahon, Josh Egan, Jamie Kenny, Andrew Kehoe and Ciaran Moran for scores, for argument sake allow each lf these to contribute 0-1 each and a bonus goal from either Deacy or Finbarr Kavanagh. This would leave Palatine with a final score of 1-11 (0-14).
Can Rathvilly score more than my hypothetical score prediction for Palatine of 0-14 pts?
Potential player of the year candidate Kevin Murphy has averaged 4.8 pts per game this year, let's round him down to 0-4 for the final. Eric Molloy has scored 2-4 in 5 games an average of 0-2 let's say he continues this form with another 0-2 in the final. Both Brandon Kelly and Conor Doyle have averaged 1.2 pts per game so far this year. Brendan Murphy (who I believe is in with the county this year) will surely be good for scoring a point in the county final will get 0-1 along with another from Liam Gavin, Adam Burgess, Darragh Murphy and Jake Elliott and a goal from someone would leave Rathvilly with a total of 1-13.
Prediction: Rathvilly 1-13 - Palatine 1-11
Top scorers so far in this years championship:
1. Kevin Murphy - Rathvilly 3-15 (3-5 from play)
2. Cathal Coughlan - Old Leighlin 1-16 (1-9 from play)
3. Ross Dunphy - Eire Og 1-15 (1-10 from play)
4. Mikey Bambrick - Old Leighlin 3-7 (3-7 from play)
5. Shane O'Neill - Palatine 1-12 (1-7 from play)
6. Patrick McDonnell - Bagenalstown 1-14 (1-2 from play)" "Lies, damned lies and statistics"
While Crowley doesn't always appear on the top of the scoring lists my eyes would tell me he contributes a lot more than scores to this Pal team. With both sets of forwards today I'm hoping we see a bit of a shootout but to be honest I reckon both teams will try go defensive and capitalise on each others kickouts. Wouldn't write off the draw but going to go with a Rathvilly win, congratulations also in order for Fenagh, never easy to go down and come straight back up, would have to wonder if senior went to 10 teams and intermediate stayed at 8 but bring up two junior teams would it help this constant yo yo effect. Something needs to be done anyway imo
CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 18 - 06/10/2024 10:25:51
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Replying To CARPS: "The recent history of the Carlow SFC tells us that teams than look incredibly impressive in their groups tend not to win it. So that means you'd have to fancy Eire Og or Rathvilly this year.
Fenagh or Tullow might well win the IFC rather than Kildavin.
Am surprised you don't mention O'Hanrahan's in the JFC. They beat Asca by more than 20 points - an eye catching scoreline, to say the least. But quite fancy Ballon in that." Hoping for Ballon and Rathvilly wins today.
Just putting the curse on them now...
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 06/10/2024 13:26:56
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Replying To CRTW: ""Lies, damned lies and statistics"
While Crowley doesn't always appear on the top of the scoring lists my eyes would tell me he contributes a lot more than scores to this Pal team. With both sets of forwards today I'm hoping we see a bit of a shootout but to be honest I reckon both teams will try go defensive and capitalise on each others kickouts. Wouldn't write off the draw but going to go with a Rathvilly win, congratulations also in order for Fenagh, never easy to go down and come straight back up, would have to wonder if senior went to 10 teams and intermediate stayed at 8 but bring up two junior teams would it help this constant yo yo effect. Something needs to be done anyway imo" All that would happen if you increase the senior to 10 is it would allow two teams who are not good enough for senior to "hide."
And it would also dilute the quality of of the IFC.
I would go the other way and make it six in each grade. With each team playing each other once.
If there is a concern about yo-yoing, then you could look at a year's grace for promoted teams.
But please don't increase the amount of teams and make it less competitive.
That's the last thing we need.
In reality, there are only four teams who realistically can win the SFC. So what's the point in having six no-hopers instead of four?
These teams are better off in the IFC, which they have a chance of winning, than languishing in the SFC and just tipping along.
What Fenagh should do now is take the Leinster club seriously. If they are good enough for Carlow senior, they should be more than good enough to have a run there. Staring with a home game against Westmeath, before potentially facing Offaly.
Same applies to Ballon or Leighlin today. Junior champions have two home games - Offaly and then Louth - to start. Should be winnable, with the right attitudes.
If not, well then it would make the case for reducing the numbers in each grade further.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 06/10/2024 13:38:13
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Replying To CARPS: "All that would happen if you increase the senior to 10 is it would allow two teams who are not good enough for senior to "hide."
And it would also dilute the quality of of the IFC.
I would go the other way and make it six in each grade. With each team playing each other once.
If there is a concern about yo-yoing, then you could look at a year's grace for promoted teams.
But please don't increase the amount of teams and make it less competitive.
That's the last thing we need.
In reality, there are only four teams who realistically can win the SFC. So what's the point in having six no-hopers instead of four?
These teams are better off in the IFC, which they have a chance of winning, than languishing in the SFC and just tipping along.
What Fenagh should do now is take the Leinster club seriously. If they are good enough for Carlow senior, they should be more than good enough to have a run there. Staring with a home game against Westmeath, before potentially facing Offaly.
Same applies to Ballon or Leighlin today. Junior champions have two home games - Offaly and then Louth - to start. Should be winnable, with the right attitudes.
If not, well then it would make the case for reducing the numbers in each grade further." Sure at that rate why not make the senior championship just Pal, EO and Rathvilly. Have to go back 10 years since anyone outside of those won it, add OL's wins and you're now going back 20 plus years since anyone outside of those 4 won it, IFC teams aren't going to close the gap playing each other they need to be playing a team a step up every now and then, had Clonmore stayed up I think they'd have improved massively for next year, instead they go back down and have to try again to come back up and stay up, the proof is in Bagnelstown, came up and stayed up the first year and haven't been down since. Our county championships are competitive which is a good thing but I just do wonder about how to reward those coming from intermediate as coming up just to go down is tough going, same can be said of our county hurlers in the Joe Mc and Liam McCarthy
CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 18 - 06/10/2024 13:58:42
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Replying To CRTW: "Sure at that rate why not make the senior championship just Pal, EO and Rathvilly. Have to go back 10 years since anyone outside of those won it, add OL's wins and you're now going back 20 plus years since anyone outside of those 4 won it, IFC teams aren't going to close the gap playing each other they need to be playing a team a step up every now and then, had Clonmore stayed up I think they'd have improved massively for next year, instead they go back down and have to try again to come back up and stay up, the proof is in Bagnelstown, came up and stayed up the first year and haven't been down since. Our county championships are competitive which is a good thing but I just do wonder about how to reward those coming from intermediate as coming up just to go down is tough going, same can be said of our county hurlers in the Joe Mc and Liam McCarthy" And are Bagenalstown any closer now to winning a SFC than when they came up in 2017?
All they seem to be doing is stagnating in senior. Much like MLR have been doing for a long time now.
The reason Palatine, Éire Óg and Rathvilly are dominating is not because Fenagh or Clonmore didn't get more time in the SFC. It's because they are consistently the three best teams - by some distance. Although Pal had a weird blip last year.
I don't see anyone emerging from the pack to challenge them in the short to medium term.
If Clonmore were good enough to play senior, they'd have beaten a bad Tinryland side to stay up.
Instead - they were hammered. 16 scores to 6.
As I said, I am not against a year's grace for promoted teams. If Tinryland had gone down this year instead of Clonmore, it would have been no great loss.
What we could do is this. End the practice of 3rd placed teams in groups going to semis. Instead, only the top two go direct to the semifinals. Then three of the bottom four play off in a round robin. Two games each. The bottom side is relegated.
However, I would much prefer to see the number of teams in each grade reduced to six. Everyone plays everyone. Top four into semis. Bottom side relegated. Again, a years grace could be considered for promoted teams.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 06/10/2024 19:05:45
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I got 3 from 4 today but I think rathvilly will win senior the next day. In terms of scope for improving I think they might have a bit more. Will be an interesting replay though Saturday evening
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 06/10/2024 20:08:23
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Replying To Barrowsider: "I got 3 from 4 today but I think rathvilly will win senior the next day. In terms of scope for improving I think they might have a bit more. Will be an interesting replay though Saturday evening" Agree, Barrow. It seemed like Palatine blew their chance today.
Rathvilly will hardly start as slowly next week.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 06/10/2024 20:36:59
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Replying To CARPS: "Agree, Barrow. It seemed like Palatine blew their chance today.
Rathvilly will hardly start as slowly next week." You would imagine not. It's set up for an intriguing replay though.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 07/10/2024 09:47:51
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