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Replying To rorysboys: "Yea agree but apart from mc Cole we're not producing defenders like say Jason foley.mike breen etc big imposing defenders who are also mobile. Most of our defenders are small pacy who like to attack but who are not comfortable in 1 to 1. I know the zonal system has its merits but good footballers like kerry have, will work round it.." Yeah I agree that a team as good as Kerry can work around it, but I suppose my thinking would be that if we improved our midfield contest and got our hands on enough ball, would we engineer enough scores the other way and the zone just does enough?
probably a somewhere in the middle really because I don't see McGuinness moving away from the zone or tearing up the script next year. if McGonagle sat at 6 and another type like him who is mobile and covers the ground well, along with McCole, and you probably have a good mix of that type of defender and then the zonal system as well?
my concern now is really around the midfield. Jason was fit enough to be on the bench towards the end of the season but didn't complete a 70 minutes all season did he? Has he got that in him with his hip problems or is it a max amount of time he can give on the pitch and that's why he only played a half v Louth and bench appearances since then? Can we rely on him coming back and flying it like he was last year for example. Hughie is another year on and was brilliant this year, but again has he 70+ in him? So we're asking Langan and Thompson around the middle but we need a spoiler type and another bit of badness around there in my view. I'm a big fan of McGonagle but think his best position is 6 and don't reallly want to move him from there to be honest.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 274 - 01/08/2025 11:33:04
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Replying To papa_pump: " Replying To Commodore: "[quote=Mousie34: "Hi Commodore, you are kind of reinforcing my point - of course Patton wasen't dropping the ball in top of Joe O'Connor [that would just be daft but if you seen that Joe O'Connor was being mobile switch it up. I think after the second one didn't work it should of been switched up, I don't think you need instruction from the side line to tell you that. It's a bit late at half time to get to grips with it. I was chatting to a family member of the squad before the match and he was telling me that the noise in Croker it is hard to hear the man beside you even! I don't think I'm being too critical, maybe I am, but as I said it is just my analysis of the season and thoughts for the future. Hopefully there will be lessons learnt, but I just can't see them bouncing back next year - hopefully I'm wrong though, I would gladly eat my words!! Whatever the storey is they will have my 100% support..."
If you watch out the field when Patton is about to kick out, he looks around for a hand signal, different players hand signal to him to show they are open or space near them is open and he kicks then.
A lot of players didn't signal until it was too late, he was scanning the field before lining up his kick and numerous times I could see that nobody was signalling, Eventually a few of them would signal, but by then it was too late."]A point I always thought was interesting was from Jim Gavin's training sessions. The dubs used to play A versus B in the buildup to a big game at Croke Park, but they weren't allowed to talk during the session, with the point being that you won't be able to hear each other on All Ireland final day so you need to be able to read your team mates body language etc"]That's an interesting one, never heard that before.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1456 - 01/08/2025 11:38:54
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Replying To Donegalexile: "My only issue with going for more out and out defenders is we could end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Throughout the year and in build up to the game, one of our major strengths always referenced was our ability to get scores from anywhere, 10-12 different scorers per game. In the 2 games we lost this year, on Sunday we had 6 scorers and against Tyrone 5 scorers. I would have a fear if we were to replace 2 attack minded defenders with 2 out and out defenders, the lower spread will happen more often and it would require Gallen and COD to go to another level to make up the deficit.
While I agree more traditional defenders are needed in the 11v11, It definitely feels like a double edged sword." I agree with you. Our zonal defence worked well all year, it shouldn't be totally abandoned because of one bad game. The main problem against Kerry was that we lost every kickout in the first half and we had no possession. I think we all agree that we don't have man-to-man markers in the county so McGuinness plays a zonal system. The full forward were good on Sunday, got scores with very little ball. With the new rules the midfield battle at kickouts is going to determine most games.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1931 - 01/08/2025 12:17:55
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Replying To ahsure.: "Yep I think Clifford was averaging 9.5 points per game coming into final, McCole kept him to9 (which is good going considering 3 x 2pts) but that score conceded needs to come down big time going forward to impact scoreboard.
How that's done, I do not know." He's the best player I've ever seen but Jesus Christ this "9 points" talk is a little anoying. He scored 3 two pointers and one of them was at the footer and had nothing to do with McCole. It's very difficult to defend against players who can hit them. He also got a handy 1 pointer from a mistake that wasn't on McCole. In truth he had 6 points in old currency and 3 of which were from long range. Not like he broke free and roasted McCole. Prime Neil McGee would have struggled against him too.
It's not like Clifford scored 9 shots. It was 6. Still an amazing performance but come on.
For the record, I like the 2 point rule but in no way should it be given for frees beyond the arc. It's much more difficult to hit it from play then a placed ball or a free with the ball in your hands.
Already buzzing for next season. Hope Jim gets everyone to commit back next year and he finds a gem or two during the club championship. We're as good as anyone but need to keep that confidence going in to next year.
eddieSize5Balls (Donegal) - Posts: 238 - 01/08/2025 16:05:13
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Replying To Green_Gold: "I agree with you. Our zonal defence worked well all year, it shouldn't be totally abandoned because of one bad game. The main problem against Kerry was that we lost every kickout in the first half and we had no possession. I think we all agree that we don't have man-to-man markers in the county so McGuinness plays a zonal system. The full forward were good on Sunday, got scores with very little ball. With the new rules the midfield battle at kickouts is going to determine most games." Possession from kickouts and breaking ball is a bit of a lottery.Kerry cleaned up in the first half but against Tyrone they won very little but they really walked through Tyrones man marking and were unlucky not to have 6 or 7 goals,I don't think a team will dominate midfield 2 days in a row.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1190 - 01/08/2025 16:40:39
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You would have expected that Mogan,Roarty,McHugh,Moore,Langan ,McGee,Thompson and McBrearty would have landed about 8 points between them but nothing.
You would also think the 2 point rule would suit us with the likes of Murphy,Gallen McBrearty Langan and Thompson all strong and accurate kickers of the ball.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1190 - 01/08/2025 16:52:08
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It's very simple, the game was lost in the first 15 minutes, we were completely over run in midfield during that period. Lost most breaking ball.
You can't give a lead like that to Kerry and expect to come back.
I don't think you can blame the defense when the opposition dominates possession during that period.
Even through I am not his greatest fan, I think McFadden got harshly dropped, and we definitely need McGee next season for a full game or at least 55 minutes. I think langan and Thomson are better in the half forward line.
I definitely think we need to give Niall O'Donnell more of a go next year, he is a classy forward that has the legs and accuracy to score.
I believe mcbrearty has not got the legs anymore, even through I do hope he gives it another year on the bench to hopefully collect a winners medal next year.
I pray to god that our manager stays for a few more years, as we have some talented footballers coming up and they need a professional manager to show them what is required.
As disappointing as the final was, look how far we have come, competitive at the very top. We have gained some respect back.
Let the players rest, thank them and hopefully next year we will win the 3 in a row in Ulster and go one step further in the all Ireland.
Bring on the club championship, come on naomh conail
The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 718 - 02/08/2025 08:36:25
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Replying To The keeper: "It's very simple, the game was lost in the first 15 minutes, we were completely over run in midfield during that period. Lost most breaking ball.
You can't give a lead like that to Kerry and expect to come back.
I don't think you can blame the defense when the opposition dominates possession during that period.
Even through I am not his greatest fan, I think McFadden got harshly dropped, and we definitely need McGee next season for a full game or at least 55 minutes. I think langan and Thomson are better in the half forward line.
I definitely think we need to give Niall O'Donnell more of a go next year, he is a classy forward that has the legs and accuracy to score.
I believe mcbrearty has not got the legs anymore, even through I do hope he gives it another year on the bench to hopefully collect a winners medal next year.
I pray to god that our manager stays for a few more years, as we have some talented footballers coming up and they need a professional manager to show them what is required.
As disappointing as the final was, look how far we have come, competitive at the very top. We have gained some respect back.
Let the players rest, thank them and hopefully next year we will win the 3 in a row in Ulster and go one step further in the all Ireland.
Bring on the club championship, come on naomh conail" Fantastic post
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 737 - 02/08/2025 09:48:27
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Replying To The keeper: "It's very simple, the game was lost in the first 15 minutes, we were completely over run in midfield during that period. Lost most breaking ball.
You can't give a lead like that to Kerry and expect to come back.
I don't think you can blame the defense when the opposition dominates possession during that period.
Even through I am not his greatest fan, I think McFadden got harshly dropped, and we definitely need McGee next season for a full game or at least 55 minutes. I think langan and Thomson are better in the half forward line.
I definitely think we need to give Niall O'Donnell more of a go next year, he is a classy forward that has the legs and accuracy to score.
I believe mcbrearty has not got the legs anymore, even through I do hope he gives it another year on the bench to hopefully collect a winners medal next year.
I pray to god that our manager stays for a few more years, as we have some talented footballers coming up and they need a professional manager to show them what is required.
As disappointing as the final was, look how far we have come, competitive at the very top. We have gained some respect back.
Let the players rest, thank them and hopefully next year we will win the 3 in a row in Ulster and go one step further in the all Ireland.
Bring on the club championship, come on naomh conail" Totally agree with this post. Whether it's the right set-up or not, since the Ulster final 2024 Jim's strategy has been to play one full-back regardless of opposition.
The losing of the game was the decision to allow Kerry to over-run midfield. I think McGuinness believed McGonagle, Thompson, Langan could manage the middle third between them.
The previews of the match in the run-up had suggested Donegal's route to victory could be to over-load the midfield. This was something Kevin Cassidy had highlighted specifically in national media. McGuinness obviously didn't agree.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 501 - 02/08/2025 12:32:55
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Replying To The keeper: "It's very simple, the game was lost in the first 15 minutes, we were completely over run in midfield during that period. Lost most breaking ball.
You can't give a lead like that to Kerry and expect to come back.
I don't think you can blame the defense when the opposition dominates possession during that period.
Even through I am not his greatest fan, I think McFadden got harshly dropped, and we definitely need McGee next season for a full game or at least 55 minutes. I think langan and Thomson are better in the half forward line.
I definitely think we need to give Niall O'Donnell more of a go next year, he is a classy forward that has the legs and accuracy to score.
I believe mcbrearty has not got the legs anymore, even through I do hope he gives it another year on the bench to hopefully collect a winners medal next year.
I pray to god that our manager stays for a few more years, as we have some talented footballers coming up and they need a professional manager to show them what is required.
As disappointing as the final was, look how far we have come, competitive at the very top. We have gained some respect back.
Let the players rest, thank them and hopefully next year we will win the 3 in a row in Ulster and go one step further in the all Ireland.
Bring on the club championship, come on naomh conail" Will niall be back next year. Got very little game time this year. It's a huge commitment niall is not the only one in that regards. It's not easy keeping players happy . It'll be interesting to see will many feel like I'm not getting game time and it's not worth the commitment. Hopefully they won't because we need everyone on board. Another thing I feel jim has to freshen up the backroom team and do what he done when he took in rory gallagher. It worked that time so no harm in taking a similar kind of coach. Just in case people think I want rory in. I don't or never will.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2662 - 02/08/2025 13:15:22
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Replying To The keeper: "It's very simple, the game was lost in the first 15 minutes, we were completely over run in midfield during that period. Lost most breaking ball.
You can't give a lead like that to Kerry and expect to come back.
I don't think you can blame the defense when the opposition dominates possession during that period.
Even through I am not his greatest fan, I think McFadden got harshly dropped, and we definitely need McGee next season for a full game or at least 55 minutes. I think langan and Thomson are better in the half forward line.
I definitely think we need to give Niall O'Donnell more of a go next year, he is a classy forward that has the legs and accuracy to score.
I believe mcbrearty has not got the legs anymore, even through I do hope he gives it another year on the bench to hopefully collect a winners medal next year.
I pray to god that our manager stays for a few more years, as we have some talented footballers coming up and they need a professional manager to show them what is required.
As disappointing as the final was, look how far we have come, competitive at the very top. We have gained some respect back.
Let the players rest, thank them and hopefully next year we will win the 3 in a row in Ulster and go one step further in the all Ireland.
Bring on the club championship, come on naomh conail" Disagree. Was lost on the training ground. More time spent talking about parades and trying to disjoint Kerry by that tactic. Yes well done on the year but that's an all Ireland left behind for sure
farneygael3 (Monaghan) - Posts: 355 - 02/08/2025 13:34:38
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Replying To farneygael3: "Disagree. Was lost on the training ground. More time spent talking about parades and trying to disjoint Kerry by that tactic. Yes well done on the year but that's an all Ireland left behind for sure" Kerry left the parade early in both of their two previous games in Croke Park that had a parade.
2024 SF v Armagh - left early with Armagh
2025 SF v Tyrone - left early running out through the Tyrone boys.
Such a load of nonsense about nothing.
donegalgael-12 (Donegal) - Posts: 30 - 02/08/2025 16:21:16
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Replying To farneygael3: "Disagree. Was lost on the training ground. More time spent talking about parades and trying to disjoint Kerry by that tactic. Yes well done on the year but that's an all Ireland left behind for sure" Who cares what you think?
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 737 - 02/08/2025 19:11:07
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Replying To Scenicparish: "Who cares what you think?" People quote replying
farneygael3 (Monaghan) - Posts: 355 - 02/08/2025 20:27:15
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Should Karl Lacey be looked at for the job? I know the u16s were 12 points up and lost by 1 but a manager who isn't focused on defence should be considered imo
farneygael3 (Monaghan) - Posts: 355 - 02/08/2025 20:32:25
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Replying To benjyyy: "Yeah he really didn't do a bad job. Was an incredibly selfless role requiring a lot of concentration and discipline. I do think he could have done better for the 2 pointer before half time. He was too tight and the problem is that there was no pressure on the pass at all. Paudie could literally wait and wait for David to make his move and once he got the yard on McCole its a simple fist pass and he gets the shot away. If there's pressure on the ball carrier the timing of that pass becomes a lot more difficult and a second delay or the pass not being perfect gives McCole a chance to get back but with no pressure it was too easy. Its up to McCole and the next line of defense to recognise that quicker and adjust. There were a few other similar occasions where the player on the ball just had to wait and wait for Clifford to make the space and then give him the ball - its an impossible challenge to defend a player that good when the timing of the pass isn't a variable." I think McCole did great against David. Yes he did get 9 points, but he had great ball coming into to him from his brother that had all the time I the world
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 03/08/2025 00:39:01
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Replying To rorysboys: "We have problems with our defence since the mc gees retired. It's defenders like eamon and Neil that we need. Good footballers but no nonsense at the same time. We can beat most teams at the moment but to go a step further that's what I feel were missing." I would see McMenamin in the same bracket as the McGees, no nonsense, hardy, and can play ball. I think we need that.
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 03/08/2025 00:43:43
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Replying To CCFabu: "definitely agree we could do with one or two more like that generally, but really I was talking more about the defensive set up, I don't think the zone needs to be done away with completely" A genuine question - could you man mark the likes of the Cliffords and OShea and then have some form of zonal defence. Surely a man stuck to you it would be harder to get ball away, and if you do get it away the space is covered then..the new rules also helps with this and then doesnt in away also that there is more space...I will admit I haven't a clue when it comes to tactics just interest in what is becoming a high scoring chess match?
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 03/08/2025 00:55:06
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Replying To rorysboys: "Will niall be back next year. Got very little game time this year. It's a huge commitment niall is not the only one in that regards. It's not easy keeping players happy . It'll be interesting to see will many feel like I'm not getting game time and it's not worth the commitment. Hopefully they won't because we need everyone on board. Another thing I feel jim has to freshen up the backroom team and do what he done when he took in rory gallagher. It worked that time so no harm in taking a similar kind of coach. Just in case people think I want rory in. I don't or never will." Yes he will be back. Murphy will be gone and Paddy another year older and will be on the bench. Niall could easily start.
eddieSize5Balls (Donegal) - Posts: 238 - 03/08/2025 05:30:42
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Replying To farneygael3: "Disagree. Was lost on the training ground. More time spent talking about parades and trying to disjoint Kerry by that tactic. Yes well done on the year but that's an all Ireland left behind for sure" What an laughable post, do you really think the parade was mentioned at training, or the hype of homecomings had anything to do with the group. Nonsense.
The group can't control what happens outside, and never will. And this silly stuff about the parade is just a stick to beat Donegal with by there detractors.
It's embarrassing for the detractors.
Only thing I somewhat agree with was Donegal news papers talking about homecomings, I am old school and believe that should have been organized after the game.
But again the group can't control the hype outside.
Now grow up and forget about the parade.
The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 718 - 03/08/2025 07:25:55
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