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Here's a thought.
Revive the All-Ireland intermediate championship and let the weaker counties play their senior teams in it.
A great competition would be guaranteed.
And it would be a fantastic opportunity for the strong counties to give experience to fringe/development players.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 03/12/2020 10:19:06
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Replying To johnocarroll17: "Here's a thought.
Revive the All-Ireland intermediate championship and let the weaker counties play their senior teams in it.
A great competition would be guaranteed.
And it would be a fantastic opportunity for the strong counties to give experience to fringe/development players." It could be interesting.
With the season going to a split season maybe the time is right for those competitions to be revived.
I guess the problem is whether there's time in the schedule to play them. Do they replace the existing lower tier hurling championships? Feels hard to run both and a NHL.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 03/12/2020 10:55:21
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It was a terrible competition, I think only a handful of counties took part and nobody really cared.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1785 - 03/12/2020 16:07:49
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Replying To johnocarroll17: "Here's a thought.
Revive the All-Ireland intermediate championship and let the weaker counties play their senior teams in it.
A great competition would be guaranteed.
And it would be a fantastic opportunity for the strong counties to give experience to fringe/development players." Why???? In the end only two teams entered it Cork and Kilkenny the other teams didn't even bother so it died, that shows the level of interest in it .....not a chance it will be revived, the tiered competitions work fine currently ...
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 03/12/2020 16:38:19
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The All Ireland Intermediate HC was started in the 1960s with the weak counties playing higher counties' 2nd strings. By 1973 it was scrapped in favour of the Senior B HC.
Then in the 1990s it was revived, again with a mix of 1st and 2nd teams, but within a few years the 1st teams left. The IHC lumbered on for about 15 more years with fewer and fewer teams until 2018 when the first and only game was the AI final. Don't think it was even played last year.
So, after being tried twice and failing, what exactly has changed that would mean that "a great competition would be guaranteed" if the Intermediate hurling championship was revived with mixed 1st and 2nd teams?
Also as pointed out above, when would it be played? Does it take the place of the JMcD/CR? If it's meant to be an additional competition where would it fit in the calendar? The tendency in recent years has been towards fewer inter county games and a tighter schedule in order to accommodate club games.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 03/12/2020 17:56:15
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This would only lead to more club chaos.
Only for the pandemic, club players would have been left in the lurch again like every other year, as Super 8's, Tailteann Cup & new U20 Competition would have meant more Inter County & less club fixtures.
The pandemic showed how important the club competitions are.
Despite all the talk of split seasons (will have to happen for 2021) & the usual rhetoric from the top table, the GAA will revert back to allowing Inter County dominate once again, for the sole reason of money.
Anybody who thinks Croke Park, GPA, Provincial Councils & Central Council delegates are going to vote to do away with their competitons & the money that generates, is only fooling themselves. These Inter County competitons can't be run in a split season, so clubs will be crammed in to a set period. These people will not vest themselves of their power & the income created to allow clubs dominate.
Inter County is all that these people are interested in, GPA renewing their deal with the GAA, GPA have no interest in clubs, they refused years ago to act as a body that would also represent club players, stating very weak excuses for being exclusively Inter County. Some people are doing very well out of it earning six figure salaries that top CEO' s of major companies would earn.
Creating another Inter County competition would be another nail in the coffin for clubs. Dropout rate at club level from 16 to 23 male & female is massive & being hidden by those in charge. The very same people who accepted an ESRI report recently rejected one some years ago that showed the GAA as having a major problem.
Normal service will resume in time, TV Companies, MSM, GPA, Inter County & Inter County managers to dictate once again.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 03/12/2020 19:42:40
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Replying To CastleBravo: "The All Ireland Intermediate HC was started in the 1960s with the weak counties playing higher counties' 2nd strings. By 1973 it was scrapped in favour of the Senior B HC.
Then in the 1990s it was revived, again with a mix of 1st and 2nd teams, but within a few years the 1st teams left. The IHC lumbered on for about 15 more years with fewer and fewer teams until 2018 when the first and only game was the AI final. Don't think it was even played last year.
So, after being tried twice and failing, what exactly has changed that would mean that "a great competition would be guaranteed" if the Intermediate hurling championship was revived with mixed 1st and 2nd teams?
Also as pointed out above, when would it be played? Does it take the place of the JMcD/CR? If it's meant to be an additional competition where would it fit in the calendar? The tendency in recent years has been towards fewer inter county games and a tighter schedule in order to accommodate club games." I agree that the stronger counties were apathetic in the past. However, with proper branding and promotion stronger counties could use it as a development opportunity for up and coming players.
The competition would take the place of the Ring and Rackard Cups. Apart from the competing counties in the Ring and Rackard Cups nobody else appears to be interested in these competitions.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 03/12/2020 23:56:28
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Replying To johnocarroll17: " Replying To CastleBravo: "The All Ireland Intermediate HC was started in the 1960s with the weak counties playing higher counties' 2nd strings. By 1973 it was scrapped in favour of the Senior B HC.
Then in the 1990s it was revived, again with a mix of 1st and 2nd teams, but within a few years the 1st teams left. The IHC lumbered on for about 15 more years with fewer and fewer teams until 2018 when the first and only game was the AI final. Don't think it was even played last year.
So, after being tried twice and failing, what exactly has changed that would mean that "a great competition would be guaranteed" if the Intermediate hurling championship was revived with mixed 1st and 2nd teams?
Also as pointed out above, when would it be played? Does it take the place of the JMcD/CR? If it's meant to be an additional competition where would it fit in the calendar? The tendency in recent years has been towards fewer inter county games and a tighter schedule in order to accommodate club games." I agree that the stronger counties were apathetic in the past. However, with proper branding and promotion stronger counties could use it as a development opportunity for up and coming players. The competition would take the place of the Ring and Rackard Cups. Apart from the competing counties in the Ring and Rackard Cups nobody else appears to be interested in these competitions."
Then you argue that because the J McD/CR only matters to the competing counties, they should be scrapped. Yet at the same time the IHC (which matters so little to anyone-even the competing counties-that it dwindled to 2 teams before being scrapped) should be resurrected and promoted as a big deal? Why not just promote the J McD and CR?
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 04/12/2020 11:59:49
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Replying To CastleBravo: " Replying To johnocarroll17: "[quote=CastleBravo: "The All Ireland Intermediate HC was started in the 1960s with the weak counties playing higher counties' 2nd strings. By 1973 it was scrapped in favour of the Senior B HC.
Then in the 1990s it was revived, again with a mix of 1st and 2nd teams, but within a few years the 1st teams left. The IHC lumbered on for about 15 more years with fewer and fewer teams until 2018 when the first and only game was the AI final. Don't think it was even played last year.
So, after being tried twice and failing, what exactly has changed that would mean that "a great competition would be guaranteed" if the Intermediate hurling championship was revived with mixed 1st and 2nd teams?
Also as pointed out above, when would it be played? Does it take the place of the JMcD/CR? If it's meant to be an additional competition where would it fit in the calendar? The tendency in recent years has been towards fewer inter county games and a tighter schedule in order to accommodate club games." I agree that the stronger counties were apathetic in the past. However, with proper branding and promotion stronger counties could use it as a development opportunity for up and coming players. The competition would take the place of the Ring and Rackard Cups. Apart from the competing counties in the Ring and Rackard Cups nobody else appears to be interested in these competitions."
Then you argue that because the J McD/CR only matters to the competing counties, they should be scrapped. Yet at the same time the IHC (which matters so little to anyone-even the competing counties-that it dwindled to 2 teams before being scrapped) should be resurrected and promoted as a big deal? Why not just promote the J McD and CR?"]I wish to correct inaccuracies in your post. Where did I mention the McDonagh Cup be scrapped? I said to scrap the Ring and Rackard Cups. Football hasn't five separate competitions.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 04/12/2020 14:38:51
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As I've said ealsewhere it's something in theory that wouldn't be a bad idea.
With the Christy Ring etc have been good in certain ways they haven't been in other ways. Many teams win it but then find the step up too great the following year. A big issue with it is in normal times the Ring, Rackard etc are over so early it can be close enough to a year before these teams actually play again.
A straight knock out intermediate championship after the Ring etc would be an idea. Middle of the summer and perfect time for hurling and would have a limited impact on club games.
Why the bigger counties don't use it to develop younger players I can't understand. A few years ago there was a Munster U25 championship I think.
Fellas who are on the fringes of panals it would be perfect if they're not going to be getting game time.
In theory you could have the following.
Kerry in Munster along with the others U25 teams.
Leinster could be tricky as if the likes of Carlow or Westmeath are in the Leinster seinor you couldn't also have them intermediate. But the likes of Meath and Kildare would benefit with even the likes of Wicklow. Wexford, Kilkenny and Dublin would have U25 teams.
In Connacht Mayo, Roscommon and even Sligo and Leitrim would benefit. As always it's hard to say where Galway should be.
In Ulster Antrim would be similar to Carlow and Westmeath in Leinster. But the likes of Down, Derry, Armagh and Donegal would be who you'd be looking at.
This is obviously just my opinion. But the problem with all of this is county boards won't support it as many have no interest in promoting the game and are happy with not having to play extra games. Also despite claims by players so not having enough games, for whatever reason many wouldn't play also.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 04/12/2020 22:06:26
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Replying To oneoff: "As I've said ealsewhere it's something in theory that wouldn't be a bad idea.
With the Christy Ring etc have been good in certain ways they haven't been in other ways. Many teams win it but then find the step up too great the following year. A big issue with it is in normal times the Ring, Rackard etc are over so early it can be close enough to a year before these teams actually play again.
A straight knock out intermediate championship after the Ring etc would be an idea. Middle of the summer and perfect time for hurling and would have a limited impact on club games.
Why the bigger counties don't use it to develop younger players I can't understand. A few years ago there was a Munster U25 championship I think.
Fellas who are on the fringes of panals it would be perfect if they're not going to be getting game time.
In theory you could have the following.
Kerry in Munster along with the others U25 teams.
Leinster could be tricky as if the likes of Carlow or Westmeath are in the Leinster seinor you couldn't also have them intermediate. But the likes of Meath and Kildare would benefit with even the likes of Wicklow. Wexford, Kilkenny and Dublin would have U25 teams.
In Connacht Mayo, Roscommon and even Sligo and Leitrim would benefit. As always it's hard to say where Galway should be.
In Ulster Antrim would be similar to Carlow and Westmeath in Leinster. But the likes of Down, Derry, Armagh and Donegal would be who you'd be looking at.
This is obviously just my opinion. But the problem with all of this is county boards won't support it as many have no interest in promoting the game and are happy with not having to play extra games. Also despite claims by players so not having enough games, for whatever reason many wouldn't play also." Great post. My sentiments exactly. At least one person is on the same wavelength as me!
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 04/12/2020 22:55:29
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"With proper branding", i.e. lets try flog a dead horse.
a bit like the railway cup,this one is for the history books.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 05/12/2020 13:00:48
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Its unlikely that the intermediate championships or a possible tier 2 all ireland tournament will receive much attention,as it looks like the GAA along with the media and websites such as this seem to be putting their energy into promoting ladies football and camogie.
Theres only so much hype and promotion that people can absorb.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 05/12/2020 18:52:40
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My brother played in that one year, I remember him getting a call from Seamus Murphy or somebody like that and he had to explain what the competition was and it was something like a week or two before a Leinster final or something like that, I'll find out exactly what it was. I think if I am remembering right, Wexford were straight through to a Leinster Final v Kilkenny and then winner played Cork in an All-Ireland final, because no other Munster team entered?
I could have some of the above wrong.
Joke of a competition.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1785 - 05/12/2020 20:10:28
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Replying To StoreysTash: "My brother played in that one year, I remember him getting a call from Seamus Murphy or somebody like that and he had to explain what the competition was and it was something like a week or two before a Leinster final or something like that, I'll find out exactly what it was. I think if I am remembering right, Wexford were straight through to a Leinster Final v Kilkenny and then winner played Cork in an All-Ireland final, because no other Munster team entered?
I could have some of the above wrong.
Joke of a competition." Proposal…
Connacht Intermediate Hurling Championship (5)
Mayo
London
Sligo
Roscommon
Galway Intermediates
Leinster Intermediate Hurling Championship (10)
Offaly
Laois
Westmeath
Carlow
Meath
Kildare
Wicklow
Kilkenny Intermediates
Wexford Intermediates
Dublin Intermediates
Ulster Intermediate Hurling Championship (6)
Kerry
Cork Intermediates
Tipperary Intermediates
Limerick Intermediates
Clare Intermediates
Waterford Intermediates
Ulster Intermediate Hurling Championship (6)
Antrim
Down
Derry
Tyrone
Donegal
New York
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 07/05/2023 03:16:29
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Yes it would give Donegal and Tyrone a better chance to win something during the 2020s
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 246 - 07/05/2023 11:27:51
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The Camogie association get a lot of stick and a lot of it is fair, but the one thing I really like what they do is the senior, intermediate and junior all Ireland series. It's creates a lot more games having strong counties second teams in it. I enjoy it. It's really helped camogie grow in a lot more counties than in hurling. Like Cavans camogie team beat Wexfords 2nd team in a league final a few years ago, Antrim and Westmeath beating Galway and Kilkenny in intermediate finals too, helps those counties a lot. Antrim even have a senior and intermediate team now after their second team beat Armagh in the junior all Ireland last year. It adds more good teams to allow 3 equal sized tiers to be played. Great for player development for strong and developing counties, maybe camogie not having u20 championships allows county boards to fund an extra team or something but they were great competitons in hurling up to the 2000s. Lots of great hurlers also have junior or intermediate all Ireland's. The cost of running teams at men's intercounty level probably means it's a thing of the past. It's a pity
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 279 - 07/05/2023 13:20:47
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Replying To PattyONeill: "Yes it would give Donegal and Tyrone a better chance to win something during the 2020s" Add Derry to that list aswell!
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 07/05/2023 13:29:23
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Replying To StoreysTash: "My brother played in that one year, I remember him getting a call from Seamus Murphy or somebody like that and he had to explain what the competition was and it was something like a week or two before a Leinster final or something like that, I'll find out exactly what it was. I think if I am remembering right, Wexford were straight through to a Leinster Final v Kilkenny and then winner played Cork in an All-Ireland final, because no other Munster team entered?
I could have some of the above wrong.
Joke of a competition." That's my memory of it too, In fact i have a vague memory of being at the final which was curtain raiser to Dublin/cork football semi final replay in 1983 in PUC.
That was between Cats and Cork and I think it might have been the only fame that year! Unless it was a year Wexford had a team.
How is Seamus by the way? He managed us one year we got to a final.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3136 - 07/05/2023 13:30:16
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There's merit in the idea but it can't be a return to the old competition. The current format is fair but playing a team composed of junior and intermediate players would be a good test for Donegal. You have a similar set up for the Celtic Challenge but the major concern would be cost. Perhaps trialling it in the league would be better.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 745 - 07/05/2023 17:35:39
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