National Forum

Casement Park

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "A two state solution was a potential answer but is barely viable now because the colonisation didn't stop 100 years ago it has continued right up to today with Palestinians still being removed from their land and their little territory still being actively eroded. It can't really be compared with the Troubles and subsequent peace process as the British had finished their takeover long before that. The Palestinian scenario is much closer to where Ireland was in the 1500s and 1600s with active confiscation and plantation happening. This is very raw as people have been dispossed in living memory in Palestine. You can't undo the past but you can change the present and even the recent past and for there to be some form of a positive outcome Israel needs to immediately halt its colonisation and withdraw its military and plantations from the occupied territories. It is in the interest of ordinary Israelis as well to make peace with their neighbours. Hopefully peace is sorted quicker than it did here...400 years after the plantation of Ulster."
There has to be a recognition on both sides of the right to exist. Think of what SF/IRA when through, at one stage they didn't recognize the right of the government of Ireland do exist, now they lead a province that they were dedicated to destroy. However the dynamics that are at play in the middle east are far more complicated that what happened in NI. Are both sides willing to pay the price for a two state solution even if that only involves the West Bank Gaza and East Jerusalem because peace will extract a heavy price on all those involved.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1900 - 23/02/2024 00:45:37    2527635

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Replying To GaryMc82:  "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).

Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.

NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.

Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.

If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?

I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense."
Dry your eyes Gary! it's finally happening and your years of fake claims and begrudging Belfast's capabilities are over. Yeeeeeooooooo!!!!!!!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 23/02/2024 08:01:49    2527643

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "Its not the GAA he's having a go at, its the irish government. And he's right too."
We know your reasons for this, Clones will be redundant.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 23/02/2024 12:18:57    2527693

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Replying To Saynothing:  "We know your reasons for this, Clones will be redundant."
The government pumping money into an un-needed stadium in belfast when the cash is badly needed elsewhere. Wake up lad for christs sake.

Live_Wire (Monaghan) - Posts: 40 - 23/02/2024 12:43:39    2527698

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "The government pumping money into an un-needed stadium in belfast when the cash is badly needed elsewhere. Wake up lad for christs sake."
Where elsewhere?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 23/02/2024 12:51:06    2527702

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "
Replying To GaryMc82:  "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).

Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.

NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.

Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.

If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?

I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense."
Dry your eyes Gary! it's finally happening and your years of fake claims and begrudging Belfast's capabilities are over. Yeeeeeooooooo!!!!!!!"
What fake claims have I ever made? I point out facts that are conveniently ignored by those pushing the Stadium, who in all honesty seem to have little or no interest in the development of Gaelic Games in Ulster.

The GAA's main source of funding is the loyal GAA fans, the people who travel the length and breadth of the Country to Club and County games, who buy merchandise, who volunteer their time for Clubs and help fund raise. Yet here the GAA have an opportunity to give something back to Ulster GAA fans by placing a New Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium in a location accessible to all 9 Counties in 1 hour or less and they opt to ignore the needs of the fans in favour of hosting Concerts, Rugby and Soccer matches.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 23/02/2024 13:01:00    2527703

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "The government pumping money into an un-needed stadium in belfast when the cash is badly needed elsewhere. Wake up lad for christs sake."
Euros will be great.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2565 - 23/02/2024 13:01:45    2527704

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Where elsewhere?"
Ah jayus !

Live_Wire (Monaghan) - Posts: 40 - 23/02/2024 13:40:08    2527715

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Replying To GaryMc82:  "
Replying To SaffronDon:  "[quote=GaryMc82:  "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).

Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.

NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.

Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.

If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?

I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense."
Dry your eyes Gary! it's finally happening and your years of fake claims and begrudging Belfast's capabilities are over. Yeeeeeooooooo!!!!!!!"
What fake claims have I ever made? I point out facts that are conveniently ignored by those pushing the Stadium, who in all honesty seem to have little or no interest in the development of Gaelic Games in Ulster.

The GAA's main source of funding is the loyal GAA fans, the people who travel the length and breadth of the Country to Club and County games, who buy merchandise, who volunteer their time for Clubs and help fund raise. Yet here the GAA have an opportunity to give something back to Ulster GAA fans by placing a New Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium in a location accessible to all 9 Counties in 1 hour or less and they opt to ignore the needs of the fans in favour of hosting Concerts, Rugby and Soccer matches."]Well said Gary.

I am in favour of a modern stadium for Ulster GAA, and if that is in Belfast, then so be it. But I am opposed to Casement, because it's not the answer. Its a terrible location, too cramped, in a residential area, where there will be a defecit in atmosphere.

I'm reading every day about the possible development of Old Trafford. Whatever they decide, new stadium or refurb, they have so much space around it, and the plans are in conjunction with Manchester Council to develop the whole area, with hotels, bars, restaurants, public travel and all the ancillary services.

I feel this is a chance missed, and a we are building the right stadium in the wrong location.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 704 - 23/02/2024 14:14:06    2527722

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "The government pumping money into an un-needed stadium in belfast when the cash is badly needed elsewhere. Wake up lad for christs sake."
Of course it's needed, Ulster needs a good stadium for it's finals and for Antrim GAA. Build houses in Clones.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 23/02/2024 14:24:49    2527723

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "
Replying To GaryMc82:  "[quote=SaffronDon:  "[quote=GaryMc82:  "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).

Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.

NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.

Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.

If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?

I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense."
Dry your eyes Gary! it's finally happening and your years of fake claims and begrudging Belfast's capabilities are over. Yeeeeeooooooo!!!!!!!"
What fake claims have I ever made? I point out facts that are conveniently ignored by those pushing the Stadium, who in all honesty seem to have little or no interest in the development of Gaelic Games in Ulster.

The GAA's main source of funding is the loyal GAA fans, the people who travel the length and breadth of the Country to Club and County games, who buy merchandise, who volunteer their time for Clubs and help fund raise. Yet here the GAA have an opportunity to give something back to Ulster GAA fans by placing a New Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium in a location accessible to all 9 Counties in 1 hour or less and they opt to ignore the needs of the fans in favour of hosting Concerts, Rugby and Soccer matches."]Well said Gary.

I am in favour of a modern stadium for Ulster GAA, and if that is in Belfast, then so be it. But I am opposed to Casement, because it's not the answer. Its a terrible location, too cramped, in a residential area, where there will be a defecit in atmosphere.

I'm reading every day about the possible development of Old Trafford. Whatever they decide, new stadium or refurb, they have so much space around it, and the plans are in conjunction with Manchester Council to develop the whole area, with hotels, bars, restaurants, public travel and all the ancillary services.

I feel this is a chance missed, and a we are building the right stadium in the wrong location."]Where then? And don't say Clones, as it is absolutely not either

It's not perfect, but it does have a number of factors going for it. Certainly more than other locations

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 23/02/2024 14:38:50    2527725

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As a 32 county person I support the funding and the construction. This is way bigger than just the GAA. Normalisation of society.
If you can get some Linfield lads to attend soccer matches in a GAA stadium they will realize that "hey its not so bad".
White South African's had to make post-apartheid adjustments. Same thing. Congrats to all the politicians on both islands for this. This is not bad for Gaelic games either.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1706 - 23/02/2024 14:55:38    2527729

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How many big games a year will be it aside from Ulster final? Ulster championship is not what it was with the reformed championship format.

Would it Host a All Ireland quarter final, or something like a November rest game in Rugby? It will have 4 games at Euro 28 but no other soccer games after that likely

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 23/02/2024 15:05:03    2527732

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "The government pumping money into an un-needed stadium in belfast when the cash is badly needed elsewhere. Wake up lad for christs sake."
Pretty ill -informed comment. Our government can spend an extra one billion cash on a hospital built in an area with no parking, a fancy building with curved glass all over the place. Perhaps you should focus your efforts on that issue.

Belfast is one of the biggest city in our 32 counties and deserves to have a stadium at least as good as what we have in Cork. Big stadiums are best suited to large cities and don't forget that it was a president from north of our country who was the driving force behind the development of Croke Park when others were against it.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 23/02/2024 16:00:29    2527743

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Of course it's needed, Ulster needs a good stadium for it's finals and for Antrim GAA. Build houses in Clones."
Build houses in Clones for what?

There is next to zero industry. The town is like a scene from the 1980s. And the bit of a boost the place gets from big GAA games will soon be lost too.

The country needs houses built. Clones doesn't.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 23/02/2024 16:51:39    2527747

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "How many big games a year will be it aside from Ulster final? Ulster championship is not what it was with the reformed championship format.

Would it Host a All Ireland quarter final, or something like a November rest game in Rugby? It will have 4 games at Euro 28 but no other soccer games after that likely"
You'd imagine some neutral venue for All Ireland series too, as well as the odd quarter final alright. Rugby in the North might indeed come back in consideration. Ireland used to in Belfast, but stopped when Ravenhill was reduced. The odd November game might indeed, but could mean a rejig of the Aviva contract in a few years. Staying with rugby, Ulster said they'd like to use it instead of Dublin for knockout matches which require a certain capacity.

Hard to know with soccer. Definitely those 4. Has the potential for a big Northern football qualifier, but hard sell for them and out of Windsor even if they can't get as many in. With the UEFA standard, it would be fit to allow a Europa or Conference Cup final type. That'd be your best bet for a soccer game after

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 23/02/2024 17:05:03    2527749

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Replying To Live_Wire:  "Ah jayus !"
Are you trying to say Clones? You know that's a non goer. So where then?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 23/02/2024 17:06:20    2527750

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Replying To browncows:  "Pretty ill -informed comment. Our government can spend an extra one billion cash on a hospital built in an area with no parking, a fancy building with curved glass all over the place. Perhaps you should focus your efforts on that issue.

Belfast is one of the biggest city in our 32 counties and deserves to have a stadium at least as good as what we have in Cork. Big stadiums are best suited to large cities and don't forget that it was a president from north of our country who was the driving force behind the development of Croke Park when others were against it."
Belfast is Ireland's second city regardless of what Cork people tell you.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 338 - 23/02/2024 18:22:00    2527758

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It will be built and I'm supportive of it being in Belfast.

Would say roughly a third of Ulsters population live within 30 mile or so of Belfast, it has a good road/rail structure , plenty of bars/restaurants/hotels , a couple of large shopping centres nearby for parking and more importantly a train stop less than a mile from Casement for us north Armagh hallions and possibly a wee swallow or 2 in The Devenish….

sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1071 - 23/02/2024 18:28:09    2527761

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "As a 32 county person I support the funding and the construction. This is way bigger than just the GAA. Normalisation of society.
If you can get some Linfield lads to attend soccer matches in a GAA stadium they will realize that "hey its not so bad".
White South African's had to make post-apartheid adjustments. Same thing. Congrats to all the politicians on both islands for this. This is not bad for Gaelic games either."
Well said

nails (Galway) - Posts: 23 - 23/02/2024 18:58:02    2527765

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