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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "If the Gaa really wanted a 35,000 capacity stadium, the reality is they already have one in Clones. People will say that Clones isn't up to standard. But that is because the Ulster Council, since Casement was discussed, have starved it of investment.
Clones has so much scope for improvement, the Gerry Arthur Stand could be flattened, and a proper stand built in its place. They have the room to build back towards the car park. There is ample space to build a new stand of the proportions of McHale Park, Castlebar. The remainder of the ground is also in similar condition to McHale Park, and with a relatively small investment in toilets and other ancillary services required for health and safety.
But the reality is that the Ulster and Central Councils real wish was to have a new concert venue in Belfast.
Now it's time for the Monaghan County Board to grow a pair, and lobby their politicians to get the investment. If Pairc Ui Chaoimh cost €110 million from scratch, I'd estimate that 25 - 30 million would leave Clones with really good facilities. With an election looming, now is the time." Clones? They have only just invested in catch nets. Toilets you wouldn't let an animal use and all this after years of Ulster finals with no fear of losing them. Casement will be built. It's surrounded by motorways with no problem getting in and out.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 16/09/2024 14:13:39
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Replying To Glensboy: "It is a very sad situation that the Gaels of Antrim have not had a county ground for 13 years. There is lots of pointing of fingers and speculation about the reasons and it is probably a mixture of factors.
It is a fact that the British Govt reneged on a commitment to fund the build. The 'alleged' cost increase has been grossly over exaggerated to justify the decision which was announced at 7.00 pm on Friday, along with the denial of a public enquiry into Sean Brown's murder, which was recommended by the Coroner who said he was unable to finish the Inquest and reach a determination because the Security Services are slapping Public Interest Immunity Certificates and redactions on information provision, and withholding crucial documents and evidence . Their intentions are not honourable. Nationalists in the North are being played and the celebrations from a majority of Unionists about these 2 decisions and their opposition to the Pat Finucane announcement are very disappointing but enlightening. A multi purpose stadium would benefit the city and wider community. All these years since the GFA and nothing appears to have changed.
Casement Park will be built, hopefully with the Irish Govt stepping up, the Brown family will continue their dignified campaign for truth and justice and if full documentation and records are made available to the Finucane Enquiry, which I am sceptical about, I am confident the truth will further taint the British Govt and expose their dirty tricks in Ireland.
The feeling grows amongst our population that the entity we live in does not work for us." It never worked. The country should be one unitary state.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 16/09/2024 14:50:26
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "The unionist position is to retain 6 counties as part of UK. The 6 counties are still part of UK and there is no sign that is going to change any time in any of our life times. This 30 years after Sinn Féin were saying they'd be gone before we knew it!
Unionists are people who run part of Ireland for Britain. Not confined to any political party bearing that name, obviously.
It is pathetic situation that any Irish nationalist is begging off them, and sad that GAA is looking for something off back of hosting soccer. "Where's your ffn pride" as a former rugby chap once demanded." I have to disagree Barney. Things are slowly changing, but they will keep changing.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 16/09/2024 14:52:53
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Andytown is well used to dealing with concerts at Boucher Rd. It also dealt with Casement filled out for Ulster championship many times back in the days and they never caused any major hassle. Just like Dublin when Croker is used. The venue also backs onto two motorways, a railway station a short distance away, a city bus service, taxi services, a range of food and drink facilities and two shopping complexes with extended car parking for supporters. Remind me again, what has Clones got to facilitate the thousands travelling for an Ulster final? Or what do they do to protect the locals on match day? when there is literally no road in or out of the entire town as the single lanes are all on lockdown for hours.
This is what I was talking about before, just blissful ignorance for the sake of it. Clones literally hasn't one advantage as a venue over Casement beyond some sentimental attachment to past memories." Who is sentimental. I would say the guy who waffles on about getting crowds in and out of Andersontown with no problem,when most of them were riding bicycles.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 16/09/2024 14:59:16
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Replying To Saynothing: "Clones? They have only just invested in catch nets. Toilets you wouldn't let an animal use and all this after years of Ulster finals with no fear of losing them. Casement will be built. It's surrounded by motorways with no problem getting in and out." It will be built and rightly so but with a capacity of 15 to 20,000. Last game in Casement had 10,000 at it, no parking and a couple of hours to get out.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 16/09/2024 15:03:14
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Replying To Saynothing: "Clones? They have only just invested in catch nets. Toilets you wouldn't let an animal use and all this after years of Ulster finals with no fear of losing them. Casement will be built. It's surrounded by motorways with no problem getting in and out." As for no fear of losing Ulster Finals, the decision was made years ago to take Ulster Finals out of Clones, and to starve Clones of even the smallest bit of investment. They have held the Ulster Finals for years without having any invested a penny since the early 90's. Meanwhile Celtic Park, Healy Park and the Athletic Grounds and Pairc Esler have all received significant funding.
I am well aware that the toilet facilities in Clones aren't fit for purpose. But €2 million would build enough toilets to facilitate a huge crowd. The toilet facilities wouldn't be hectic in Omagh either, you could do with spending a few pound on them rather than spending big money on a fancy press box.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 704 - 16/09/2024 15:25:18
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Who is sentimental. I would say the guy who waffles on about getting crowds in and out of Andersontown with no problem,when most of them were riding bicycles." I'm not talking about pre 60s Ulster finals at Casement. I'm talking about Ulster championship matches that were being held there every year up until it closed doors 10 years ago. Nothing sentimental about those facts. Crowds came and went without a fuss. You still haven't gave me even one advantage Clones has over Casement as a venue. I rest my case.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 16/09/2024 15:29:50
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "It will be built and rightly so but with a capacity of 15 to 20,000. Last game in Casement had 10,000 at it, no parking and a couple of hours to get out." 'No parking'? That's lies. 'hours to get out'? Unless you crawled on your knees out, that's more lies.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 16/09/2024 15:35:07
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I'm sorry that Belfast isn't getting the stadium it wants. It's certainly important for the GAA to get a good base in the city. The level of vitriol directed at it was as expected but still shocking, and the GAA were dealing with an unreliable untrustworthy "partner".
Was Monaghan v Antrim 2013 the last intercounty game there? The mistake was letting it just go to seed as bringing it up to any useful state will cost a small fortune. And it's not that easy to get to if you are coming on the train from Dublin or over the water by boat to Belfast harbour.
The Ulster GAA now need to invest in Clones, it's by far the best stadium for the Ulster final. History, atmosphere, the view over the countryside etc etc. It's a proper old-fashioned stadium with a pretty natural pitch in a small town. What's not to like? That's one facet of the GAA that is important. It can't all be about the big stadiums in the big towns with rubber burgers and plastic beer glasses - although they are important too.Traffic can be a bit tricky but where would you be speeding off to on a Sunday afternoon anyway? It might even get it's train station back if the strategic rail review is implemented.
I can't defend the toilets though, they are brutal.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 178 - 16/09/2024 16:31:04
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Replying To SaffronDon: "I'm not talking about pre 60s Ulster finals at Casement. I'm talking about Ulster championship matches that were being held there every year up until it closed doors 10 years ago. Nothing sentimental about those facts. Crowds came and went without a fuss. You still haven't gave me even one advantage Clones has over Casement as a venue. I rest my case." Nonsense. I was at the last game in Casement. 11 year ago. No parking and 2 hours to get out. A shambles.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 16/09/2024 17:28:41
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Nonsense. I was at the last game in Casement. 11 year ago. No parking and 2 hours to get out. A shambles." Was there for the Ros v Antrim NFL game in 2013.
About 600 attendance, only place to park was in a nearby residential street where a spot was hard found.
Now imagine 30 times the attendance.... .
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 16/09/2024 20:05:11
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Was there for the Ros v Antrim NFL game in 2013.
About 600 attendance, only place to park was in a nearby residential street where a spot was hard found.
Now imagine 30 times the attendance.... ." I must've missed that massive CAR PARK at CROKE PARK too!
DelganyUpper (Tyrone) - Posts: 20 - 16/09/2024 20:56:14
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Nonsense. I was at the last game in Casement. 11 year ago. No parking and 2 hours to get out. A shambles." So did you just drive straight home then? Otherwise you DID get a parking space. Then it took you 2 full hours to leave Belfast with the motorway 2 mins from the stadium with 3 lanes in each direction? LOL I know sat nav was new enough back then but a funeral hearse would leave Belfast quicker than you.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 16/09/2024 21:49:00
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Was there for the Ros v Antrim NFL game in 2013.
About 600 attendance, only place to park was in a nearby residential street where a spot was hard found.
Now imagine 30 times the attendance.... ." Just out of interest. When you go to Croker for the day, where do you park for that? People use streets in Dublin the same way they do in Belfast and I've yet to hear anything on here about Dublin being a 'shambles' etc getting to and from.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 16/09/2024 21:52:53
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Replying To PolicemanFox: "I'm sorry that Belfast isn't getting the stadium it wants. It's certainly important for the GAA to get a good base in the city. The level of vitriol directed at it was as expected but still shocking, and the GAA were dealing with an unreliable untrustworthy "partner".
Was Monaghan v Antrim 2013 the last intercounty game there? The mistake was letting it just go to seed as bringing it up to any useful state will cost a small fortune. And it's not that easy to get to if you are coming on the train from Dublin or over the water by boat to Belfast harbour.
The Ulster GAA now need to invest in Clones, it's by far the best stadium for the Ulster final. History, atmosphere, the view over the countryside etc etc. It's a proper old-fashioned stadium with a pretty natural pitch in a small town. What's not to like? That's one facet of the GAA that is important. It can't all be about the big stadiums in the big towns with rubber burgers and plastic beer glasses - although they are important too.Traffic can be a bit tricky but where would you be speeding off to on a Sunday afternoon anyway? It might even get it's train station back if the strategic rail review is implemented.
I can't defend the toilets though, they are brutal." Well Holy God, the views.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 16/09/2024 22:59:13
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The GAA might have to plan for having concerts now in Clones instead of the new their fancy dan Casement Park. Sad day when Irish people are going cap in hand to London.
Casement to me never made sense as being Ulster's main stadium, Antrim GAA should not have let if fall into disrepair, I don't know the ins and outs of it.
The locals weren't happy with a Croke Park style concert venue on their doorstep either from what I remember, suppose they have the experience of the local residents around Croke park to draw on, we seem obsessed in this country with piling everything into the cities, there's a lot to be said for a central mid Ulster venue.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3029 - 17/09/2024 09:12:34
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The main reason for Casement not going ahead is pure sectarianism and anti GAA bigotry nothing less. Let's not kid ourselves. People in the South have no experience or day to day reality of the bigotry and hatred that Gaels in the North face from the Unionist political and media Establishment and the constant attacks and threats from violent Loyalism. It is totally vile.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9785 - 17/09/2024 09:45:47
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Replying To Ulsterman: "The main reason for Casement not going ahead is pure sectarianism and anti GAA bigotry nothing less. Let's not kid ourselves. People in the South have no experience or day to day reality of the bigotry and hatred that Gaels in the North face from the Unionist political and media Establishment and the constant attacks and threats from violent Loyalism. It is totally vile." Nonsense. There was originally enough money promised from GAA, Brits and Irish Govt., but the locals objected and rightly so to the monstrosity that was being built on their doorsteps to facilitate concerts and such like. The games would possibly fill it once a year. There was more than enough money to turn it into a fine venue for Antrim football and hurling but greed took over, while Windsor and Ravenhill got on with the job and got their stadiums upgraded. Of course anti GAA bigotry exists in the North of Ireland but it is not the reason for Casement lying in ruins.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 17/09/2024 10:34:10
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Replying To Ulsterman: "The main reason for Casement not going ahead is pure sectarianism and anti GAA bigotry nothing less. Let's not kid ourselves. People in the South have no experience or day to day reality of the bigotry and hatred that Gaels in the North face from the Unionist political and media Establishment and the constant attacks and threats from violent Loyalism. It is totally vile." And there was me thinking Sinn Féin was the biggest Party in the 6 Cos!
I also thought the ground was closed before planning permission was obtained, that the Permission was found illegal, that local residents had a load of issues, that the original funds had depreciated significantly....
But obviously I imagined it all
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 17/09/2024 11:02:36
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Nonsense. There was originally enough money promised from GAA, Brits and Irish Govt., but the locals objected and rightly so to the monstrosity that was being built on their doorsteps to facilitate concerts and such like. The games would possibly fill it once a year. There was more than enough money to turn it into a fine venue for Antrim football and hurling but greed took over, while Windsor and Ravenhill got on with the job and got their stadiums upgraded. Of course anti GAA bigotry exists in the North of Ireland but it is not the reason for Casement lying in ruins." You clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about which further highlights your agenda along with your lame excuses about the area. Windsor and Ravenhill were built in no time because the DUP ensured that it would happen (no health and safety or concern for residents in similarly built up areas). Casement Park had the same starting point as the other two and the DUP invented any problem they could find to stop the GAA side from happening. They highlighted false health and safety issues. Fixated on a handful of residents who knew where they were living before stadiums plans had begun and who were the minority in an area of thousands of people who DID wanted the stadium rebuilt. They made up figures, knew that figures would grow the more they objected and Casement became a political tennis ball for all to see.
But then who needs enemies to this when you have GAA people from within believing the unionist lies and going along with them because it might be an inconvenience once a year to travel away from their doorstep for an Ulster final.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 17/09/2024 11:35:07
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