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Galway, Dublin and Cork could all let you down there......
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16133 - 04/06/2025 17:39:30 2614924 Link 1 |
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An advantage of the winner 2A and loser 2B rounds in 2026 is that knockout football will be in everyone's control. You won't be depending on the result of any other game except your own. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 04/06/2025 17:57:30 2614926 Link 0 |
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Philadelphia Eagles lost 3 regular season games in 2024- they still handed them a trophy @ the Superbowl. The current format has that NFL feel to it now- definitely more marathon than sprint. For comparison, in 1997 Kerry won the All Ireland beating Tipp, Clare, Cavan and Mayo in that order. If Tyrone in 2025, for talk's sake, resurrect their season and go on now to beat Cavan, Galway in an away qualifier, Kerry in a quarter, Armagh in a semi and Dublin in a final, having lost 2 games in the season, which would be the bigger footballing achievement? Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1230 - 04/06/2025 22:09:42 2614957 Link 2 |
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Sorry, my geography is not great. Hope you leave him with us for a few more years.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 583 - 04/06/2025 23:25:31 2614967 Link 0 |
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Show us yours. If you have them, you are a ripe auld age.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 583 - 04/06/2025 23:27:53 2614968 Link 0 |
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They could actually lose to Cavan and go on to win it on 3 losses and that after 4 league losses,a competition which leads into the Sam Maguire competition. That would still be a bigger achievement that the Kerry win you mentioned.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 583 - 04/06/2025 23:36:26 2614971 Link 0 |
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In any competion if you win your own games you dont have to depend on others. Surely even you can figure that out.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 583 - 04/06/2025 23:38:43 2614972 Link 1 |
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Surely winning a competition by winning all your games is a much better achievement than winning it after loosing 2/3 games…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4012 - 05/06/2025 10:29:59 2615015 Link 0 |
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Does not matter. You play the format. The winners are the winners and that's what history says. Take another sport…. Liverpool finished top of the champions league group this year, PSG were down near 14/15th? What does that matter now?
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11622 - 05/06/2025 11:15:16 2615024 Link 3 |
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Your missing the point… the argument for the want of a better word was about achievement… In my opinion winning a competition after winning all your matches is a much better achievement than winning it after loosing 2/3 on the way… Simple really
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4012 - 05/06/2025 12:56:06 2615057 Link 0 |
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A straight knockout will never determine the best team.Are Crystal Palace a better team than Liverpool.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1167 - 05/06/2025 13:16:05 2615066 Link 1 |
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Yes it is much better. But that doesn't mean winning a tournament after losing in the early rounds should the format allow, is not meritorious. Miami Dolphins 1972 are the only NFL team to complete a perfect season. Milan under Capello went unbeaten in the early 90's in Serie A, as did Arsenal of course. And let's not forget the Glasgow Rangers unbeaten SPL season of 2020-21 All tremendous achievements, but there have a few great, and better, teams since Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1230 - 05/06/2025 13:19:28 2615068 Link 2 |
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It may not but it gives the underdog a fighting chance of winning something… The back door was brought in to supposedly help the weaker teams but all it did was ensure the strong counties won out in the end… The Cup competition in England is a great leveller as proven by Crystal Palace's success…. They would hardly have gained their first ever success if your back door , side door system was in place… Maybe you just like seeing the same strong counties winning all the time….most normal thinking people I know wouldn't….!!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4012 - 05/06/2025 16:54:17 2615158 Link 0 |
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It may not but it gives the underdog a fighting chance of winning something… The back door was brought in to supposedly help the weaker teams but all it did was ensure the strong counties won out in the end… The Cup competition in England is a great leveller as proven by Crystal Palace's success…. They would hardly have gained their first ever success if your back door , side door system was in place… Maybe you just like seeing the same strong counties winning all the time….most normal thinking people I know wouldn't….!!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4012 - 05/06/2025 16:56:55 2615160 Link 1 |
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One could agree the best team didn't always win the all Ireland so?
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11622 - 05/06/2025 17:15:07 2615165 Link 1 |
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It doesn't make one bit of difference how you win. The history books will show you won an Ireland. The rules are voted on by the majority of Counties. If you want to take your argument further, it's a far bigger achievement for an Ulster team to win an All Ireland. For example this year Donegal had to play, Derry, Monaghan, Down and Armagh in Ulster. In the Group stages Tyrone & Cavan with Mayo to come. They will probably have to play a preliminary quarter final match before the quarter if they beat Mayo ( because of the Tyrone defeat ). Kerry on the other hand have a very favourable run to the quarter finals. At the end of the day it doesn't matter. The record books will show the All Ireland winners. Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 530 - 05/06/2025 18:08:00 2615184 Link 1 |
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Since partition, Kerry & Dublin Combined have won 66.3% of titles (69 out of 104) Other Counties: 33.7% of titles (35 out of 104) Therefore Kerry and Dublin have been dominant forces in Gaelic football over the past century, collectively winning over two-thirds of the All-Ireland titles during this period. The knockout system facilitated that dominance. By comparison, Kerry and Dublin have won 36.5% of National league titles. However, since 1991 (Ulster and Connacht resurgence). Dublin and Kerrys success rate dropped from 66% to 51% despite being in 66% of finals. Since the introduction of the backdoor - Dublin and Kerry have been in 79.2% of finals winning 62% of all Irelands. They have rarely met before the final under current formats. Most championships use a knockout with qualifier ("back door") system, which tends to allow strong teams a second chance, helping Dublin and Kerry stay in longer. The fairest format would be to operate regionalized Knockouts having Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Connacht knockouts with cross-provincial quarterfinals grouping allowing Dublin and Kerry to meet far more often. i.e All ireland entry based on current provincial strength in the league/championship over past 5 years. Ulster - 5 counties - Tyrone, Donegal, Derry, Monaghan, Armagh, Connacht - 3 counties - Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Leinster - 3 counties - Dublin, Meath, Louth Munster - 2 counties - Kerry, Cork Tailteann Cup - 1 County - Down League positions - 2 counties - Offaly, Cavan. Random Last 16 draw 7 Ulster: Cavan, Tyrone, Monaghan, Armagh, Donegal, Down, Derry 3 Connacht: Mayo, Roscommon, Galway 4 Leinster: Dublin, Meath, Offaly, Louth 2 Munster: Cork, Kerry Provincial champions (Donegal, Galway, Louth, Kerry) cannot face each other or other provincial champions in the Last 16. No two teams from the same province can face each other unless unavoidable. The would reward relative strength of the province rather than any single counties ability to dominate those around it. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1433 - 05/06/2025 18:59:59 2615192 Link 0 |
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The winners and losers round could be a success or a flop. Worst case scenario if it doesn't work out is to revert back. It has taken two rounds to setup Round 3. It will only take one round to setup a similar scenario next year. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 05/06/2025 21:05:24 2615210 Link 0 |
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Dublin have never won an All Ireland, or indeed reached an All-ireland final by way of a back door or "second chance". Maybe, hopefully, this year! sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 923 - 05/06/2025 22:38:20 2615221 Link 0 |
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That is correct - Leinster has been set up so that Dublin don't often go through the back door. They have had the luxury of a seeded leinster championship which guaranteed a soft Leinster qfinal home matches all the way through. Add in the weakness of Leinster overall and they would have no decent match until the qfinals - often against a team who had to play every week to get there and then face a nicely rested Dublin, playing at home. Even with the super 8 they got two home matches to everyone else getting 1. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1433 - 06/06/2025 12:32:19 2615310 Link 1 |