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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Until that figure grows to a majority, the game that we grew up with and loved -- and would (and did!) spill our blood on the field of play for -- deserves to be called nothing more than throwball.
I watch what's called hurling now (but is really only throwball) as a casual observer (and more of an armchair observer than I ever thought possible). My dream once was that the gospel of hurling would grow and expand and thrive in all 32 counties but now I couldnt care less. Donal Og and his ilk with their defence of throwball have tread on my dreams but at this stage I'm ok with them having it. Apathy for the future of the sport is not so bad really...and there are plenty of other sports that can pique one's interest." Ah God just give up watching it so. Plenty good stick passes in Cusack Park today. A few old fashioned lump it with the wind to noone in particular strikes too unfortunately.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14876 - 23/02/2025 21:18:38
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I honestly think that over use of the hand has taken a bit from the game that is still the best field sport. While not in favour of over doing rule change in a game that has evolved and continues to evolve. However when you see 4 or 5 hand passes and the ball has only moved 10 feet this does not look great and draws the play into a ruck. Some adjust would help. Like some restriction of two hand passes or the ball has to advance if 3 or 4 players from the same team handle it. Nothing too complicated and certainly not stopping hand passing.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2953 - 23/02/2025 23:25:54
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In the 18th Century, there were two distinct versions of a game of ball and stick. In the northern part of Ireland, it was called camán, and played in the winter. A hard wooden ball, or crag, was struck with a narrow wooden stick, but could not be handled (as in modern shinty). In the southern parts the game was called iomán or báire and played in summer. The ball, or sliothar was made of animal hair, and could be handled or carried on a wider stick (hurl) than used in the north.
The northern game was one of the common people, but the southern game was largely organized by the landlords who provided the hurling greens, picked the teams, typically of 21, and competed against each other for wagers. The game would often be part of much larger entertainment such as fairs and other competitions, and the gentry even participated with their own teams. Crowds of up to 10,000 attended. This region was conveniently supplied with dry level terrain and many ash trees, which became the favoured wood for hurls. The gentry change over to cricket post 1801 (act of union) and hurling went into decline. After the founding of the GAA - hurling took back its place from Cricket, but has stagnated since Irish independence.
The modern game of hurling derived from the southern game and the northern game has disappeared. Top level Hurling is confined to areas of counties with good, dry, flat land. East Cork, Tipperary, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, East Clare, East Limerick, East Galway and a few pockets in other areas, predominantly where there was landed gentry living on good land.
This elitest history continues to this day and modern hurling hasn't really spread out from its original playing area in the 2.5 centuries since then. This is the single greatest failure of the GAA - in its entire existence, it has failed to spread the game of hurling through the entire country.
The current structure, parish/club/county province hasnt worked and will not work - continuing to do the same things they have been doing since the 1880's is insanity.
There is a blue print that can work - the ladies GAA have shown how you grow a game from nothing into a popular game with minimal input from male GAA clubs.
Most ladies clubs in Mayo are amalgamated parishes. There used to be a North Mayo hurling club but now there is no amalgamated hurling club in the entire county.
The fix is simple in Mayo anyway
Have a hurling club in each Barony except Costello - leave Ballyhaunis and Toreen as the two clubs there.
Let central funds provide a grant for a 4G hurling pitch and hurling wall in each barony with first call to the hurling club
No doubt something similar can be done in every "weaker" county.
Hoping every rural club is going to be able to provide a hurling and a football club is never going to work out.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1221 - 24/02/2025 18:16:57
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "In the 18th Century, there were two distinct versions of a game of ball and stick. In the northern part of Ireland, it was called camán, and played in the winter. A hard wooden ball, or crag, was struck with a narrow wooden stick, but could not be handled (as in modern shinty). In the southern parts the game was called iomán or báire and played in summer. The ball, or sliothar was made of animal hair, and could be handled or carried on a wider stick (hurl) than used in the north.
The northern game was one of the common people, but the southern game was largely organized by the landlords who provided the hurling greens, picked the teams, typically of 21, and competed against each other for wagers. The game would often be part of much larger entertainment such as fairs and other competitions, and the gentry even participated with their own teams. Crowds of up to 10,000 attended. This region was conveniently supplied with dry level terrain and many ash trees, which became the favoured wood for hurls. The gentry change over to cricket post 1801 (act of union) and hurling went into decline. After the founding of the GAA - hurling took back its place from Cricket, but has stagnated since Irish independence.
The modern game of hurling derived from the southern game and the northern game has disappeared. Top level Hurling is confined to areas of counties with good, dry, flat land. East Cork, Tipperary, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, East Clare, East Limerick, East Galway and a few pockets in other areas, predominantly where there was landed gentry living on good land.
This elitest history continues to this day and modern hurling hasn't really spread out from its original playing area in the 2.5 centuries since then. This is the single greatest failure of the GAA - in its entire existence, it has failed to spread the game of hurling through the entire country.
The current structure, parish/club/county province hasnt worked and will not work - continuing to do the same things they have been doing since the 1880's is insanity.
There is a blue print that can work - the ladies GAA have shown how you grow a game from nothing into a popular game with minimal input from male GAA clubs.
Most ladies clubs in Mayo are amalgamated parishes. There used to be a North Mayo hurling club but now there is no amalgamated hurling club in the entire county.
The fix is simple in Mayo anyway
Have a hurling club in each Barony except Costello - leave Ballyhaunis and Toreen as the two clubs there.
Let central funds provide a grant for a 4G hurling pitch and hurling wall in each barony with first call to the hurling club
No doubt something similar can be done in every "weaker" county.
Hoping every rural club is going to be able to provide a hurling and a football club is never going to work out." That's a great post.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14876 - 24/02/2025 22:51:25
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Replying To Canuck: "I honestly think that over use of the hand has taken a bit from the game that is still the best field sport. While not in favour of over doing rule change in a game that has evolved and continues to evolve. However when you see 4 or 5 hand passes and the ball has only moved 10 feet this does not look great and draws the play into a ruck. Some adjust would help. Like some restriction of two hand passes or the ball has to advance if 3 or 4 players from the same team handle it. Nothing too complicated and certainly not stopping hand passing." Why do people get away with claiming grandiosely that hurling is 'the best field sport', when your average yank might tell you it's not a patch on american football?
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3965 - 25/02/2025 00:44:05
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Replying To Whammo86: "There's a lot of good ideas here but I also think there's a lack of critical mass of clubs in some counties.
Could championships get merged.
Antrim Down
Westmeath, Meath
Donegal, Derry, Tyrone
Connacht counties.
Could you start to get some clubs emerge and strengthen where they are able to offer a stronger standard of competition for their players." I would add Wicklow and Carlow to that
Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 742 - 25/02/2025 10:08:31
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Replying To Southsham: "I would add Wicklow and Carlow to that" Considering my other message about amalgamated clubs, the same logic should apply to weaker counties.
Amalgamating counties to allow for a stronger club championship is a no brainer.
East Ulster Championship - Antrim, Down, Armagh,
West Ulster Championship - Donegal, Derry, Tyrone,
South Ulster Championship - Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan
Connacht Championship - Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim
North Leinster Championship - Louth, Meath, Westmeath, Longford
West Leinster Championship - Offaly, Laois,
East Leinster Championship - Wicklow, Carlow and Kildare
The odd one out then is Kerry
Kerry should apply their football divisional model to hurling and enter Feale Rangers and Shannon Rangers into the Limerick Hurling championship
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1221 - 25/02/2025 11:12:18
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Considering my other message about amalgamated clubs, the same logic should apply to weaker counties.
Amalgamating counties to allow for a stronger club championship is a no brainer.
East Ulster Championship - Antrim, Down, Armagh,
West Ulster Championship - Donegal, Derry, Tyrone,
South Ulster Championship - Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan
Connacht Championship - Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim
North Leinster Championship - Louth, Meath, Westmeath, Longford
West Leinster Championship - Offaly, Laois,
East Leinster Championship - Wicklow, Carlow and Kildare
The odd one out then is Kerry
Kerry should apply their football divisional model to hurling and enter Feale Rangers and Shannon Rangers into the Limerick Hurling championship" Not a bad idea about Kerry, I was thinking they were the odd one out myself. Not sure Limerick would be keen on divisional teams. That was tried in Limerick about 14/15 years back. Worked fine for a few years but was scrapped once the South team got to a county Final. The Established senior clubs were not having it.
Offaly definitely are strong enough on there own aswell as Laois. Maybe posters from those counties might shed more light if they think a combined championship would be of use
Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 742 - 25/02/2025 11:58:34
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Won't quote the long post above by the Mayo man. Will just say that while there's a lot of good stuff in it, I find it interesting that he talks about doing things in every barony - not a term in common usage at this end of the country anyway. Is it different "out Wesht" ?
Either way, his suggestion is more than a little ambitious. Wikipedia tells me there are nine baronies in Mayo, which means following through on the suggestion would probably cost in the region of €20 million for Mayo alone:
- Roughly €1 million per pitch for a 4G playing surface alone
- Roughly €300,000 to €350,000 for floodlights of the required standard for hurling
- Cost of buying the site, if there wasn't already a suitable site in GAA ownership
- Cost of other groundworks and providing at least some sort of dressing rooms/showers/toilets
I reckon you'd be doing well if you got away with €2 million per pitch.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2702 - 25/02/2025 12:14:51
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Why do people get away with claiming grandiosely that hurling is 'the best field sport', when your average yank might tell you it's not a patch on american football?" Your average yank just may not be the brightest
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2160 - 25/02/2025 13:08:32
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