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Development Squads Discouraging Young Players From Playing For Their Clubs And Schools.

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https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-development-squad-issues-must-be-raised-with-gaa-looking-in-wrong-place-to-cut-expenses/a544484573.html

Article I read this morning. Does anyone in other counties have any 1st hand experience of this actually happening? Down here our u14, u15 and u16 development squads only do regular collective training one day a week on a Saturday morning for most of their season. Tbh I personally don't think this is enough really. It must be very hard for the players from different clubs to really get to know their teammates games and on pitch habits when they are only together so infrequently. Like what way they are inclined to break, what they do before starting to break right or left when making a run for a pass, etc etc.
Certainly I've never heard of an instance where a young fella was discouraged from playing for his school or club over bring in a Development Squad. Here in Wexford, or anywhere else.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 14:03:07    2592901

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What is the point of a development squad?

Ethos of the GAA is to promote participation (not winning) with their club (not the county).
The County Unit, then fields a range of county teams to give the best club players the opportunity to play against other counties best player - in the interest of the overall promotion of the game - as this gives young players role models to follow and thus promotes the game.

What is the purpose of a development squad - to develop a small selection of club players who are not good deemed not good enough to play for the county team, in the hope they will eventually be good enough for the county team.

I would argue that the whole idea of a development squad goes against the ethos of the GAA. The money should be spent on training club coaches every saturday morning so they get better at coaching, and thus give all club players an opportunity to develop into better payers in their own club (the key unit of the the GAA). Having better coaches makes the club better, which promotes the game as more people will go to watch club games if the standard is improved.

The only way a county development squad works (in keeping with the ethos of the GAA) is to change the cut off date form 1st Jan to 30 June, thus giving players who are disadvantaged by their birthday, access to better training - giving them a higher chance of developing into county players as they grow older and the disadvantage of birthday lessons.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1224 - 24/02/2025 17:09:04    2592961

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Replying To Viking66:  "https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-development-squad-issues-must-be-raised-with-gaa-looking-in-wrong-place-to-cut-expenses/a544484573.html

Article I read this morning. Does anyone in other counties have any 1st hand experience of this actually happening? Down here our u14, u15 and u16 development squads only do regular collective training one day a week on a Saturday morning for most of their season. Tbh I personally don't think this is enough really. It must be very hard for the players from different clubs to really get to know their teammates games and on pitch habits when they are only together so infrequently. Like what way they are inclined to break, what they do before starting to break right or left when making a run for a pass, etc etc.
Certainly I've never heard of an instance where a young fella was discouraged from playing for his school or club over bring in a Development Squad. Here in Wexford, or anywhere else."
How much more should these squads be training then?
For rugby the provincial and the regional squads below the provinces can train multiple times a week only in summer when club and school season is over.
I have heard of players in many sports being askwd/told to not train with their club or school to prevent over doing it. For many players in development squads they need to manage their training loads

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3724 - 24/02/2025 17:53:31    2592983

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Replying To Viking66:  "https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-development-squad-issues-must-be-raised-with-gaa-looking-in-wrong-place-to-cut-expenses/a544484573.html

Article I read this morning. Does anyone in other counties have any 1st hand experience of this actually happening? Down here our u14, u15 and u16 development squads only do regular collective training one day a week on a Saturday morning for most of their season. Tbh I personally don't think this is enough really. It must be very hard for the players from different clubs to really get to know their teammates games and on pitch habits when they are only together so infrequently. Like what way they are inclined to break, what they do before starting to break right or left when making a run for a pass, etc etc.
Certainly I've never heard of an instance where a young fella was discouraged from playing for his school or club over bring in a Development Squad. Here in Wexford, or anywhere else."
It's up to their coaches. Some will let them back to their clubs if there's no competitive games coming up, could play a challenge match for county on Saturday and play for club on Sunday. When there's a competitive game there might be a five day rule, no club or school games before competition. Usually they'll play less football in those months for the county than they would if they weren't county. Because they'll be good enough to play two age groups for club, play more games and, arguably, test themselves more at a higher age group for the club, than they'd be at for their lower, last eligible, age group for county.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7784 - 24/02/2025 17:56:56    2592984

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "What is the point of a development squad?

Ethos of the GAA is to promote participation (not winning) with their club (not the county).
The County Unit, then fields a range of county teams to give the best club players the opportunity to play against other counties best player - in the interest of the overall promotion of the game - as this gives young players role models to follow and thus promotes the game.

What is the purpose of a development squad - to develop a small selection of club players who are not good deemed not good enough to play for the county team, in the hope they will eventually be good enough for the county team.

I would argue that the whole idea of a development squad goes against the ethos of the GAA. The money should be spent on training club coaches every saturday morning so they get better at coaching, and thus give all club players an opportunity to develop into better payers in their own club (the key unit of the the GAA). Having better coaches makes the club better, which promotes the game as more people will go to watch club games if the standard is improved.

The only way a county development squad works (in keeping with the ethos of the GAA) is to change the cut off date form 1st Jan to 30 June, thus giving players who are disadvantaged by their birthday, access to better training - giving them a higher chance of developing into county players as they grow older and the disadvantage of birthday lessons."
Do Mayo pay their Development Squad coaches? Ours are volunteers. Even minor managers are.
On your other point our County Board subsidise club coaches to attend courses like Award 1 and Award 2 hurling and football courses, and the new pilot Athletic Development course. Our club paid the balance for me and others.
Our Games Development team provide other coaching courses for club coaches throughout the year, everything from participation and player pathway courses, to sprint training to tactical stuff, developing attacking play, etc. They've also helped all clubs appoint coaching officers, and provided clubs templates for coaching plans. They also go round all our schools, and coach sessions at clubs who ask also.
As regards seeing the point of Development Squads, counties compete in u14, u15, u16 and minor competitions at underage. If you don't get the lads together at least once a week you won't compete with the other counties. I know some counties get together more often than we do, and for longer, for example our u14s aren't starting til next Saturday, the 1st March. Trials for each panel are held every year, and there's turnover, I know a few lads were on one year, but not the next, but got back on the year after. Obviously the hope is that this encourages them and others to keep practicing and improving, and that what they learn they will share with their friends in the club, be it in terms of attitude and coachability, or more specific stuff like athletic development and skills drills.
Also by providing this environment they are hopefully less likely to get their head turned by other sports like rugby and soccer, who have been providing the same sort of elite pathway for many years now.
As regards the Ethos of the GAA it was always club and county linked from the start. Club sides represented their county for many years at the start. All the different codes are supposed to be promoted, in our parish we have a dual gaa club, lgfa club, camogie club, handball club, and athletics club.
Obviously competition and human nature being what they are, every player in every team at every club in every county wants to win. That's why they participate. Development Squads are helping some lads achieve this, not only by coaching, but by providing a short term goal to encourage lads to work harder at home and at their club, practice, and get better. Any of our lads who were ever on one, not that many as we are a relatively small club, said they enjoyed their time there.
Back to the original question, do you know of anyone on a Development Squad anywhere in the country who was discouraged from playing with their club or school as O'Rourke alleges in his article?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 18:04:41    2592985

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I have always said that development squads are a waste of time and only spreads an elitist attitude to those who are picked for them… And there certainly is a tendency for players involved with these squads to shun their club either on the direction of the management of these squads or by their parents… All in all they serve no purpose…. a complete waste of money

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3503 - 24/02/2025 18:48:41    2592996

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*IF* what O'Rourke says is actually really happening in some places, then yes, I'd say it should be addressed.

But as with Viking above, I can only speak for what happens in Wexford, and it doesn't happen here. Development Squad training is very carefully and very deliberately timed so as not to clash with schools & club activity. It takes place primarily on Saturday mornings - there's never club fixtures for those age grades scheduled for Saturdays, so the closest anything would come to a clash is if the clubs of some of the players on the Development Squads decided they were training on Saturday mornings too.

There's certainly never a clash here like what O'Rourke claims of a Development Squad session being timed for the exact time of a club match, and players being encouraged to miss the match in order to go training with the county squad instead.

Some (like Viking!) might think that only once a week for our Development Squads isn't enough, but you can't have it both ways. More sessions per week would only hugely increase the likelihood of clashes with club activity, and that's what we don't want.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2704 - 24/02/2025 19:12:41    2593001

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The problem here is we have amateur sport that has an arm that wants to be professional or is in most ways other than paying the top players. The percentage of actual players who play at the elite level is quite small. This is how other sports operate. The player starts out as an amateur and 0.9% who are special move to the professional level. I love our amateur ethos but is it sustainable anymore? Do we end up with 6 or 8 franchises? If we don't like this and want to stay as we are, then the professional wing has to be reined in. Put the power back in the amateur's control. County teams allowed train twice a week. Paid managers go. Managers have to be from the county. Backroom staff curtailed to 8 not 58. The club makes the player available on their terms and a few other things that has run a muck. Of course what I am saying here is not going to happen because there is too much vested interest and money in where we are for too many. So we may have to take our heads out of the sand and set the professional now hidden system up legit. After all it is our insatiable hunger for the product that is driving the professional expectations of the amateur game to be better. You reap what you sow.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2956 - 24/02/2025 20:15:46    2593009

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Is "Development Squads Discouraging Young Players From Playing For Their Clubs And Schools." The longest title of a thread on this site? What's the record?

Onion_Sack (Dublin) - Posts: 268 - 24/02/2025 20:46:03    2593014

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Replying To KillingFields:  "How much more should these squads be training then?
For rugby the provincial and the regional squads below the provinces can train multiple times a week only in summer when club and school season is over.
I have heard of players in many sports being askwd/told to not train with their club or school to prevent over doing it. For many players in development squads they need to manage their training loads"
Most counties underage squads train twice a week, between tactical/classroom sessions and pitch sessions. And start the year earlier than ours.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 22:32:07    2593039

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It's up to their coaches. Some will let them back to their clubs if there's no competitive games coming up, could play a challenge match for county on Saturday and play for club on Sunday. When there's a competitive game there might be a five day rule, no club or school games before competition. Usually they'll play less football in those months for the county than they would if they weren't county. Because they'll be good enough to play two age groups for club, play more games and, arguably, test themselves more at a higher age group for the club, than they'd be at for their lower, last eligible, age group for county."
Most competitive underage intercounty games below minor happen in the school holidays.
And essentially in Mayo what O'Rourke is claiming happens in his article doesn't occur?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 22:34:20    2593040

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "I have always said that development squads are a waste of time and only spreads an elitist attitude to those who are picked for them… And there certainly is a tendency for players involved with these squads to shun their club either on the direction of the management of these squads or by their parents… All in all they serve no purpose…. a complete waste of money"
Name some of these counties. It absolutely doesn't happen here. Surprised it happens over your way in London tbh.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 22:36:10    2593041

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "*IF* what O'Rourke says is actually really happening in some places, then yes, I'd say it should be addressed.

But as with Viking above, I can only speak for what happens in Wexford, and it doesn't happen here. Development Squad training is very carefully and very deliberately timed so as not to clash with schools & club activity. It takes place primarily on Saturday mornings - there's never club fixtures for those age grades scheduled for Saturdays, so the closest anything would come to a clash is if the clubs of some of the players on the Development Squads decided they were training on Saturday mornings too.

There's certainly never a clash here like what O'Rourke claims of a Development Squad session being timed for the exact time of a club match, and players being encouraged to miss the match in order to go training with the county squad instead.

Some (like Viking!) might think that only once a week for our Development Squads isn't enough, but you can't have it both ways. More sessions per week would only hugely increase the likelihood of clashes with club activity, and that's what we don't want."
I know that's why we don't train more often here Pikeman. I'm not saying we should either, only that it leaves us at a competitive disadvantage compared to counties that do train more often.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 22:37:57    2593042

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Replying To Onion_Sack:  "Is "Development Squads Discouraging Young Players From Playing For Their Clubs And Schools." The longest title of a thread on this site? What's the record?"
To answer your question on page 2 of the forum there's a thread with 13 words in the title, 1 more than this one ;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 24/02/2025 22:54:01    2593053

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Maybe that's an issue in strong counties but here definitely not. Ours train once a week. With some camps over holidays. If you're doing a talent academy, once a week isn't enough and is definitely a waste of resources.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1689 - 25/02/2025 07:17:34    2593071

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Replying To Onion_Sack:  "Is "Development Squads Discouraging Young Players From Playing For Their Clubs And Schools." The longest title of a thread on this site? What's the record?"
:)

There are 12 words in the title of this one. I guessed that the one and only Tom Smith would surely have beaten that at some stage. And sure enough, even on the first page of the forum right now, he has one with 13 words, and another with 14.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2704 - 25/02/2025 10:48:12    2593107

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Replying To Pikeman96:  ":)

There are 12 words in the title of this one. I guessed that the one and only Tom Smith would surely have beaten that at some stage. And sure enough, even on the first page of the forum right now, he has one with 13 words, and another with 14."
:-D

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 25/02/2025 11:30:48    2593114

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If you go down to Page 4, he has one with 16 words, posted after last year's All-Ireland Hurling Final:

"After yesterday's epic Limerick must now rank 3rd or maybe 4th best Hurling Team in Ireland".

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2704 - 25/02/2025 11:59:10    2593129

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "If you go down to Page 4, he has one with 16 words, posted after last year's All-Ireland Hurling Final:

"After yesterday's epic Limerick must now rank 3rd or maybe 4th best Hurling Team in Ireland"."
Feck it I'll have to do better next time!!! Interestingly on a national forum we haven't had one poster to back up Colm O'Rourkes claim yet. And only one supports his argument, our man in London.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14886 - 25/02/2025 13:45:30    2593149

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Replying To Viking66:  "Feck it I'll have to do better next time!!! Interestingly on a national forum we haven't had one poster to back up Colm O'Rourkes claim yet. And only one supports his argument, our man in London."
I didn't read his article Viking, not paying for online newspaper. Should have said earlier was talking about LGFA not mens football and I'm living in Meath. Hear stories of club asking their best players, in county squad, if they can play club and one week yes, county challenge game that weekend, next week could be no cos there's a competitive game for the county. U14/U16 usually runs from January to May. Doesn't sound ideal but on the other side leaves players, coaches and parents the summer holidays off when there's also a break for club games.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7784 - 25/02/2025 14:53:54    2593161

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