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New York Hurling

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So as things stand. New York will compete in the Rackard Cup next year. New York will enter a semi final against the Rackard group runner up. If New York lose the semi final, they will play the 6th placed team in a relegation playoff. It is understandable that if New York lose the playoff - they will drop back to Meagher. If the 6th placed team beats them however - it isn't entirely clear what their incentive is. The Rackard Cup can only have 6 group teams.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8902 - 01/06/2025 15:29:44    2614012

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Replying To legendzxix:  "So as things stand. New York will compete in the Rackard Cup next year. New York will enter a semi final against the Rackard group runner up. If New York lose the semi final, they will play the 6th placed team in a relegation playoff. It is understandable that if New York lose the playoff - they will drop back to Meagher. If the 6th placed team beats them however - it isn't entirely clear what their incentive is. The Rackard Cup can only have 6 group teams."
They could extend it to 7 or 8 if they wanted to. Nothing is set in stone. We might send over a second US team next year. The Middle East might send one from Dubai, and Singapore could send one from Asia, and Darwin or Sydney a team from Down Under. These are areas that have strong hurling teams. As for NY, we'd definitely fancy our chances against the Kingdom. Sure, weren't you relegated this year? Bring it on!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2292 - 02/06/2025 03:30:26    2614208

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Replying To Bon:  "How did the claw get on?"
One of the best of them, I hear. I wasn't at the game at all myself.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2292 - 02/06/2025 03:31:41    2614209

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "One of the best of them, I hear. I wasn't at the game at all myself."
You'd expect him to be I suppose

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2374 - 02/06/2025 11:12:07    2614249

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "They could extend it to 7 or 8 if they wanted to. Nothing is set in stone. We might send over a second US team next year. The Middle East might send one from Dubai, and Singapore could send one from Asia, and Darwin or Sydney a team from Down Under. These are areas that have strong hurling teams. As for NY, we'd definitely fancy our chances against the Kingdom. Sure, weren't you relegated this year? Bring it on!"
New York had a 6 point win over Cavan, one of the lowest ranks hurling teams in Ireland.

Hardly spectacular.

New York had a lot of very very average hurlers in that final, so they are definitely never going to play in the Joe Mc Donagh Cup, they could possibly get up to Christy Ring eventually if they have a good run in the Nicky Rackard cup.

Kerry are in the Christy Ring cup in 2026, so New York can't play them next year.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 954 - 03/06/2025 09:35:31    2614475

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "One of the best of them, I hear. I wasn't at the game at all myself."
Long auld drive from Tokyo or Florida ok ;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16143 - 03/06/2025 10:20:51    2614490

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Replying To Viking66:  "Long auld drive from Tokyo or Florida ok ;-)"
Yes, and the Wexford lads complain when a game is on in Thurles and not Nowlan Park. In my time I've seen teams from Darwin in Northwestern Australia and from Dubai and Abu Dhabi FLY thousands of miles to places like Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Shanghai, or Seoul for a weekend of Gaelic Games at the Annual Asian Games (AGGs). There was an Aussie guy who lived in Kabul who would year in, year out, first fly down to Dubai and then on with the Dubai lads to one of these venues in Asia. That's dedication!

Personally, I don't travel to the games as much anymore. I flew to Dublin for Limerick's 3-in-a-row in 2022. I was offered a ticket for Sunday's Munster Final if I were coming to Ireland. That I am not attending is not a money or distance issue. I'm not going to be there due to work commitments. But why should I take a ticket from a fan who has been going to the games all year? Don't get me wrong, I would take it, but I don't think that a system that allows it to happen is right. Sometimes we can live with not right, though.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2292 - 04/06/2025 15:25:48    2614887

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I see a story in the news section of this site today where Johnny Glynn answers criticism of New York being parachuted into the semi-finals by claiming nobody ever said there was anything wrong with it when Galway used to go straight to the senior hurling semi-final.

All I'll say in response is: oh yes they did.

Why else would Galway have entered Leinster in the first place, if there was nothing wrong with the old way?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2919 - 05/06/2025 14:00:56    2615090

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I see a story in the news section of this site today where Johnny Glynn answers criticism of New York being parachuted into the semi-finals by claiming nobody ever said there was anything wrong with it when Galway used to go straight to the senior hurling semi-final.

All I'll say in response is: oh yes they did.

Why else would Galway have entered Leinster in the first place, if there was nothing wrong with the old way?"
It was fine for years when Galway was losing. No one complained then. It was only after the 1980's, a decade in which when Galway won 3 AIs that the complaining began. The 'move 'em to Leinster' mouths began wagging full-time then.

Glynn hits the nail on the head when he says:

"Sure, look for years people wanted to see Limerick win an All-Ireland now when they're after winning a few no-one wants to see them win. People are always happy when you're losing, it's when you've a chance of winning they want to give out."

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2292 - 05/06/2025 16:46:30    2615154

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "It was fine for years when Galway was losing. No one complained then. It was only after the 1980's, a decade in which when Galway won 3 AIs that the complaining began. The 'move 'em to Leinster' mouths began wagging full-time then.

Glynn hits the nail on the head when he says:

"Sure, look for years people wanted to see Limerick win an All-Ireland now when they're after winning a few no-one wants to see them win. People are always happy when you're losing, it's when you've a chance of winning they want to give out.""
Your completely missing the point. Its not about New York its about the other teams at that level that are struggling to make a break through that missed out on a cup and a big day in croker. New York are a higher level and we all knew it that's the issue. It ain't about New York winning

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 572 - 05/06/2025 17:31:19    2615171

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I see a story in the news section of this site today where Johnny Glynn answers criticism of New York being parachuted into the semi-finals by claiming nobody ever said there was anything wrong with it when Galway used to go straight to the senior hurling semi-final.

All I'll say in response is: oh yes they did.

Why else would Galway have entered Leinster in the first place, if there was nothing wrong with the old way?"
Galway felt the reason they had such a poor record in AIQFs and AISFs for many years was that they came in undercooked. That's why they wanted to join Leinster. Tbh I think the penny is dropping that there were other issues at play.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16143 - 05/06/2025 17:48:27    2615179

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Galway should never have been allowed a free ride into the All Ireland semi finals in the first place. They should have been kept in Munster from the 50s/60s onward.

Gonzalez (Laois) - Posts: 15 - 06/06/2025 10:54:02    2615281

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Glynn, as with many on this debate, missed the point somewhat. NY are not to blame here, the GAA is to blame. Trying to frame this as a form of begrudgery is frankly belittling to those who have skin in this game. Putting NY in among the weakest counties guaranteed no 'big voice' would be heard in opposing it. Also guaranteed that none of those 5th tier teams would win Lory Meagher this year (a mega deal in getting lads to play next year) and 1 team was deprived a day in Croker (another mega deal in retaining lads in the game). Against the backdrop of attempts made to help build up hurling in weaker counties, that was/is a disgrace.

But the overarching problem here is parachuting any team into any primary competition without taking part fully in that competition. It stinks. If you are a hurling team from NY or Sydney or Dubai or Hong Kong and you would like to play in a competition in Ireland but you are unable for geographic reasons to fulfill the five-round group games prior to knockout stage, then i'm sorry you shouldn't be eligible to play in that competition! What the GAA has allowed to happen is the undermining of those tier 4 and 5 competitions and will damage the game in those weaker counties.

The Cavan manager was right in everything he said about it after the final. Willie Maher owes him a written apology IMO, and owes Monaghan one too. Similar to the recent proposal to remove lowest tier counties from NHL, this will not be forgotten in weaker counties and tells us everything we need to know (and maybe already knew) about the priorities and motivations of those running hurling.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 620 - 06/06/2025 11:39:56    2615291

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Glynn, as with many on this debate, missed the point somewhat. NY are not to blame here, the GAA is to blame. Trying to frame this as a form of begrudgery is frankly belittling to those who have skin in this game. Putting NY in among the weakest counties guaranteed no 'big voice' would be heard in opposing it. Also guaranteed that none of those 5th tier teams would win Lory Meagher this year (a mega deal in getting lads to play next year) and 1 team was deprived a day in Croker (another mega deal in retaining lads in the game). Against the backdrop of attempts made to help build up hurling in weaker counties, that was/is a disgrace.

But the overarching problem here is parachuting any team into any primary competition without taking part fully in that competition. It stinks. If you are a hurling team from NY or Sydney or Dubai or Hong Kong and you would like to play in a competition in Ireland but you are unable for geographic reasons to fulfill the five-round group games prior to knockout stage, then i'm sorry you shouldn't be eligible to play in that competition! What the GAA has allowed to happen is the undermining of those tier 4 and 5 competitions and will damage the game in those weaker counties.

The Cavan manager was right in everything he said about it after the final. Willie Maher owes him a written apology IMO, and owes Monaghan one too. Similar to the recent proposal to remove lowest tier counties from NHL, this will not be forgotten in weaker counties and tells us everything we need to know (and maybe already knew) about the priorities and motivations of those running hurling."
Best post on this forum in a while. Bitter taste in the mouths of 5 LM counties from this year and that'll be 10 counties when NY drop into NR next year.

Hurling survives in weaker counties in spite of the GAA and not because of it.

This year saw the LM get the most national coverage it ever received. That's a disgrace too.

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 248 - 06/06/2025 11:56:44    2615302

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Genuine question, because it's been mentioned here a few times. Relates to the proposal of some time back to remove certain counties from the National Hurling League, if they had five or less club hurling teams.

Part of the proposal was that they'd go into "an extended Lory Meagher/Nickey Rackard Cup" and part of the problem was that we never heard what exactly this extension would look like, but we'll leave that aside for now.

Instead, consider a county with four hurling clubs. That's probably somewhere from 80 to 120 active adult hurlers in the county. And probably 25 to 30 of them involved with the county squad, in the League during February & March, and then the Lory Meagher or Nickey Rackard during April & May.

Then, when the inter-county campaigns conclude (both codes), club football takes by far the prime position in those counties. That doesn't leave a lot of room for club hurling or the "ordinary" player (i.e. a club hurler who's not part of the county squad).

Say one club has 20 or 21 players. Four or five of them are part of the county squad. They couldn't field a team for a club match during the inter-county campaign if any two or three others at all were unavailable for any reason.

So, devil's advocate - would it not on the face make sense to have them running club competitions in which all hurlers can play during February/March/April, instead of only their county hurlers getting games during that time? And then pick a county squad based on form during those club competitions, to take part in some sort of extended Lory Meagher or Nickey Rackard during say May & June?

Genuine question. What am I missing here?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2919 - 06/06/2025 12:53:04    2615313

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Genuine question, because it's been mentioned here a few times. Relates to the proposal of some time back to remove certain counties from the National Hurling League, if they had five or less club hurling teams.

Part of the proposal was that they'd go into "an extended Lory Meagher/Nickey Rackard Cup" and part of the problem was that we never heard what exactly this extension would look like, but we'll leave that aside for now.

Instead, consider a county with four hurling clubs. That's probably somewhere from 80 to 120 active adult hurlers in the county. And probably 25 to 30 of them involved with the county squad, in the League during February & March, and then the Lory Meagher or Nickey Rackard during April & May.

Then, when the inter-county campaigns conclude (both codes), club football takes by far the prime position in those counties. That doesn't leave a lot of room for club hurling or the "ordinary" player (i.e. a club hurler who's not part of the county squad).

Say one club has 20 or 21 players. Four or five of them are part of the county squad. They couldn't field a team for a club match during the inter-county campaign if any two or three others at all were unavailable for any reason.

So, devil's advocate - would it not on the face make sense to have them running club competitions in which all hurlers can play during February/March/April, instead of only their county hurlers getting games during that time? And then pick a county squad based on form during those club competitions, to take part in some sort of extended Lory Meagher or Nickey Rackard during say May & June?

Genuine question. What am I missing here?"
Big part of it is the standard of club games and getting players exposure to a higher level.

Take your 80-120 club players. 25% are probably above 33 years old and don't want to play county or play for the fun of it. 25% are 17-22 years old and maybe need a few years club hurling or may never play county. 25% are with the county team. The remaining 25% are the kind of lads who come in and out, you see the same type of player in every second club team or junior team around the country. They don't want to play county and are okay with not playing hurling 48 weeks of the year.

Do you punish the 30-50 lads who have ambition and desire to play at a higher level and represent their county? There are some genuinely good hurlers north of the Galway/Dublin line. You would deny them a platform to test themselves at the highest level they can play.

What would happen if those teams got kicked out of the championship is: Transfer to Dublin or Galway or Belfast to play at a higher level or play football. Either way you aren't going to encourage people to play hurling in those counties.

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 248 - 06/06/2025 13:29:20    2615324

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Glynn, as with many on this debate, missed the point somewhat. NY are not to blame here, the GAA is to blame. Trying to frame this as a form of begrudgery is frankly belittling to those who have skin in this game. Putting NY in among the weakest counties guaranteed no 'big voice' would be heard in opposing it. Also guaranteed that none of those 5th tier teams would win Lory Meagher this year (a mega deal in getting lads to play next year) and 1 team was deprived a day in Croker (another mega deal in retaining lads in the game). Against the backdrop of attempts made to help build up hurling in weaker counties, that was/is a disgrace.

But the overarching problem here is parachuting any team into any primary competition without taking part fully in that competition. It stinks. If you are a hurling team from NY or Sydney or Dubai or Hong Kong and you would like to play in a competition in Ireland but you are unable for geographic reasons to fulfill the five-round group games prior to knockout stage, then i'm sorry you shouldn't be eligible to play in that competition! What the GAA has allowed to happen is the undermining of those tier 4 and 5 competitions and will damage the game in those weaker counties.

The Cavan manager was right in everything he said about it after the final. Willie Maher owes him a written apology IMO, and owes Monaghan one too. Similar to the recent proposal to remove lowest tier counties from NHL, this will not be forgotten in weaker counties and tells us everything we need to know (and maybe already knew) about the priorities and motivations of those running hurling."
So what does the GAA do for the likes of NY without bankrupting the organisation and given the logistics involved? I assume you listened to the GAA Social podcast on Wednesday... Johnny Glynn stated that the biggest issue for him is getting time off to play these games, time off that is fairly limited. Leaving NY out in the cold is surely not the suggestion? I personally have no issue with the inclusion of NY & perhaps for some fairness & in order to grow the game, there should be a rule that a certain number of American born players be in the starting 15. However exclusion is not the answer. The proposal to remove counties from the NHL was scandalous but is a seperate matter for the minute.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1356 - 06/06/2025 13:41:34    2615334

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Replying To ponger:  "Your completely missing the point. Its not about New York its about the other teams at that level that are struggling to make a break through that missed out on a cup and a big day in croker. New York are a higher level and we all knew it that's the issue. It ain't about New York winning"
Missed no point at all, Pongo. It is all about winning. If Cavan had been good enough to win, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They weren't, so it is knee-jerk reaction time in certain quarters; throw the baby out with the bath water!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2292 - 06/06/2025 15:11:00    2615351

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Replying To MrPBoylan:  "Big part of it is the standard of club games and getting players exposure to a higher level.

Take your 80-120 club players. 25% are probably above 33 years old and don't want to play county or play for the fun of it. 25% are 17-22 years old and maybe need a few years club hurling or may never play county. 25% are with the county team. The remaining 25% are the kind of lads who come in and out, you see the same type of player in every second club team or junior team around the country. They don't want to play county and are okay with not playing hurling 48 weeks of the year.

Do you punish the 30-50 lads who have ambition and desire to play at a higher level and represent their county? There are some genuinely good hurlers north of the Galway/Dublin line. You would deny them a platform to test themselves at the highest level they can play.

What would happen if those teams got kicked out of the championship is: Transfer to Dublin or Galway or Belfast to play at a higher level or play football. Either way you aren't going to encourage people to play hurling in those counties."
Good answer as regards what I wasn't thinking of. Thanks. But a couple of points arising:

1. The 25% of young players who need a few years of club hurling in order to come up to the standard needed for inter-county. Surely the extra club hurling in February/March/April would benefit them in that regard?

2. However, if some 50% (made up of the older players, and the lads who play just for the heck of it, with no ambition to make the county squad) have no real appetite for extra club games, then that first 25% could well be goosed anyway. Can be difficult enough even here to get club league matches played early in the year in the lower divisions, where you'd be dealing with roughly the same type of players.

3. There was no suggestion of denying hurlers in those counties "a platform to test themselves at the highest level they can play", or of kicking them out of the championship. They were still to have participated in some sort of extended Lory Meagher or Nickey Rackard. But again, we never heard what these extended competitions would look like.

Anyway, it's a side issue here to the main topic of New York and how and where they fit in. But thanks again.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2919 - 06/06/2025 15:53:09    2615370

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Replying To Viking66:  "Galway felt the reason they had such a poor record in AIQFs and AISFs for many years was that they came in undercooked. That's why they wanted to join Leinster. Tbh I think the penny is dropping that there were other issues at play."
Think you're a bit off there, coming in undercooked was a massive issue once the rest of the country moved to back door/ qualifier systems. Showed in the fact that from the year back doors first came in in 1997, we only made 3 out of 12 semi finals up until we moved to Leinster, and have made 8 out of 16 since, quite a leap from 25% strike rate of being in the last 4 up to 50%

Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 68 - 06/06/2025 16:29:32    2615383

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