National Forum

Some Updates On The Football Review

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Replying To Whammo86:  "There's a big difference in having a review committee and then putting out 18 proposals and then for all of them to go through. The game did need to improve but even so I can see why someone would think that the process has been handled in a crazy manner."
They were playing "sandbox" trial games for months and meeting "stakehokders"
Then the Inter pros.

Obviously delegates, Co Boards, CC, all felt football was gone so bad it needed immediate surgery.
Otherwise we'd be talking about it till 2030.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1979 - 02/12/2024 14:16:17    2582047

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "They were playing "sandbox" trial games for months and meeting "stakehokders"
Then the Inter pros.

Obviously delegates, Co Boards, CC, all felt football was gone so bad it needed immediate surgery.
Otherwise we'd be talking about it till 2030."
Yeah ok but still 18 changes is mad. There's a common principle in the world that it's a good thing to aim for minimal change maximum impact. You could easily just bring in the 2 point score and minimum 3 players always have to be in a half and it'd probably improve things massively without much more needing to be done. Granted the hold up black card makes sense.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4332 - 02/12/2024 19:55:16    2582110

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Replying To TopoftheD:  "Absolutely bizarre and outrageous decision taken over the weekend to introduce EIGHTEEN rule changes in one fell swoop with next to NO trial period or even discussion. And yet here we are 6 weeks after a host of unenforceable "rules" were trialled in a, let's be honest, farce of an inter-provincial series with nothing at stake and 4 teams of players on a weekend bonding session. Unbelievable stuff!! Were clubs or grassroots members consulted on any of this??, if they were I must have missed it! It seems this Review Committee just came up with a host of bizarre rule changes and everyone just accepted it with absolutely no trial period or worthwhile discussion on it from ordinary GAA members. I thought the GAA was supposed to be a democratic organisation?? Havoc will ensue, mark my words, in club pitches up and down the country, when referees (who are hard to recruit as it is) are met with the task of implementing a whole host of bizarre new rule changes that don't just slightly tweak existing rules, but completely change the game as we know it. Gobsmacked that any sporting organisation would just introduce EIGHTEEN new rules all at once 6 weeks after we first heard anything about them!! Outrageous, Outrageous stuff."
The lowest vote any of the proposed rule changes received was 73%. That is at least 73% of delegates (who would be directed how to vote by their County boards) voted in favour of each rule change. The County boards would direct the delegate to central council how to vote according to the wishes of the club delegates to the County board who in turn would have brought the decision of their individual clubs to their County board. Whether all that protocol was followed in every club I don't know but I would be surprised if County boards did not have meetings of the delegates from the clubs to discuss and vote on the proposals.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 02/12/2024 21:13:30    2582118

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A lot of the 7 core changes are straightforward enough. 1v1, goalkeeper kick outs, goal keeper passing, solo & go, 2 pointer and the improved attacking mark aren't complicated.
3 up/back isn't complicated either. Tough on one match official to keep track of that though at Junior whatever level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8326 - 02/12/2024 21:31:40    2582121

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah ok but still 18 changes is mad. There's a common principle in the world that it's a good thing to aim for minimal change maximum impact. You could easily just bring in the 2 point score and minimum 3 players always have to be in a half and it'd probably improve things massively without much more needing to be done. Granted the hold up black card makes sense."
I don't think they should change the scoring system at all. The other changes will make it more attacking than under old rules and speed the game up. Some teams will get close to the 40 to just slow it down to get a 2 point attempt away. If the 4 interprovincial games are anything to go by, the lack of physicality will be alright to view on television but will reduce the thrill of being at a game. I don't know but it looks like they looked too much at basketball, end-to-end scores, minimum contact, with a 3 point shot and see that as entertaining. We don't need games to be high scoring to be good. Plenty of attacking intent definitely, physicality and intensity for sure. That's down to the coaches. I'm hopeful the new rules will improve the game for spectators but I think they may have looked too much at reversing the bad from poor game but forget there was plenty of good games in recent years.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7672 - 02/12/2024 21:37:02    2582123

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Well for better or worse we are getting 'change' in Gaelic football next year, unlike the politics were it will be the same old, same old as per the last 100 years.
I think the kickout rule is going to be a problem on very windy days, not overly in favour of the tap and go but we'll see how well all these things work soon enough, good at least that we are trying to improve the game which had become a safety first keep ball borefest.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3046 - 02/12/2024 21:59:12    2582127

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I don't think they should change the scoring system at all. The other changes will make it more attacking than under old rules and speed the game up. Some teams will get close to the 40 to just slow it down to get a 2 point attempt away. If the 4 interprovincial games are anything to go by, the lack of physicality will be alright to view on television but will reduce the thrill of being at a game. I don't know but it looks like they looked too much at basketball, end-to-end scores, minimum contact, with a 3 point shot and see that as entertaining. We don't need games to be high scoring to be good. Plenty of attacking intent definitely, physicality and intensity for sure. That's down to the coaches. I'm hopeful the new rules will improve the game for spectators but I think they may have looked too much at reversing the bad from poor game but forget there was plenty of good games in recent years."
I can't abide giving say Rory Beggan 2 points for a 40.5m free straight in front of goal with the wind while giving say Conor McManus only 1 point from a magnificent kick from play out near the corner flag with 2 backs on top of him.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1979 - 02/12/2024 22:06:27    2582128

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah ok but still 18 changes is mad. There's a common principle in the world that it's a good thing to aim for minimal change maximum impact. You could easily just bring in the 2 point score and minimum 3 players always have to be in a half and it'd probably improve things massively without much more needing to be done. Granted the hold up black card makes sense."
People in Ireland are addicted to random change for the hell of it. Just tó prove we are no longer "backward".

I can see the value of some of the proposals. Adopting them all as a package is inventing a new game.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3187 - 02/12/2024 23:08:22    2582135

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I don't think they should change the scoring system at all. The other changes will make it more attacking than under old rules and speed the game up. Some teams will get close to the 40 to just slow it down to get a 2 point attempt away. If the 4 interprovincial games are anything to go by, the lack of physicality will be alright to view on television but will reduce the thrill of being at a game. I don't know but it looks like they looked too much at basketball, end-to-end scores, minimum contact, with a 3 point shot and see that as entertaining. We don't need games to be high scoring to be good. Plenty of attacking intent definitely, physicality and intensity for sure. That's down to the coaches. I'm hopeful the new rules will improve the game for spectators but I think they may have looked too much at reversing the bad from poor game but forget there was plenty of good games in recent years."
Don't have to go back to recent years, the club finals at the weekend was good games. I totally agree they didn't need to change the scoring system and BTW Basketball has become more boring here with three pointers.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3500 - 03/12/2024 05:02:10    2582141

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I can't abide giving say Rory Beggan 2 points for a 40.5m free straight in front of goal with the wind while giving say Conor McManus only 1 point from a magnificent kick from play out near the corner flag with 2 backs on top of him."
Defences will have to be careful not to be giving away needless frees. I think the reward for the risk of the longer score is needed. Defences will have to push out. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8326 - 03/12/2024 10:33:57    2582159

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "People in Ireland are addicted to random change for the hell of it. Just tó prove we are no longer "backward".

I can see the value of some of the proposals. Adopting them all as a package is inventing a new game."
Replying To BarneyGrant: "" I can see the value of some of the proposals. Adopting them all as a package is inventing a new game.""

I agree with the above statement.
I was not expecting the new rules to be adopted as a package. Clearly, change is needed as many of the games played have lost entertainment value.
Many also promote the idea that the entertainment value should be in "physically aggressive matches" where players are potentially hurt and result in long-term physical injuries. The current rules on dangerous play are reasonably clear yet what is implemented on the field of play is that the interpretation of the rules is skewed in favour "" Of allowing the game to flow""
The time is close at hand when the GAA will be forced to deal with what amounts to assault designed to inflict injury on the field of play.
Regrettably, while many new rules are to be implemented, the safety of amateur players is not being considered !!!!

Note; you can have significant Physical contact without dangerous play, look at the pull-down in Ruby

BarrRst (Westmeath) - Posts: 30 - 03/12/2024 12:09:14    2582168

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Replying To BarrRst:  "Replying To BarneyGrant: "" I can see the value of some of the proposals. Adopting them all as a package is inventing a new game.""

I agree with the above statement.
I was not expecting the new rules to be adopted as a package. Clearly, change is needed as many of the games played have lost entertainment value.
Many also promote the idea that the entertainment value should be in "physically aggressive matches" where players are potentially hurt and result in long-term physical injuries. The current rules on dangerous play are reasonably clear yet what is implemented on the field of play is that the interpretation of the rules is skewed in favour "" Of allowing the game to flow""
The time is close at hand when the GAA will be forced to deal with what amounts to assault designed to inflict injury on the field of play.
Regrettably, while many new rules are to be implemented, the safety of amateur players is not being considered !!!!

Note; you can have significant Physical contact without dangerous play, look at the pull-down in Ruby"
But the new rules were not adopted as a package. Yes they were all passed by a vote of the delegates but each rule was voted on individually.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 03/12/2024 12:56:29    2582177

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I can't abide giving say Rory Beggan 2 points for a 40.5m free straight in front of goal with the wind while giving say Conor McManus only 1 point from a magnificent kick from play out near the corner flag with 2 backs on top of him."
Get a quill and send off a good quality letter of complaint to HQ!

Drax_the_destroyer (UK) - Posts: 254 - 03/12/2024 14:26:46    2582196

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Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse

Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 03/12/2024 17:26:22    2582228

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse"
Yeah you'd have to have sympathy with the referees next year, hard to say what the game is going to end up like but we are going to know soon enough whether these changes make the game better or whether it turns into a bit of a farce.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3046 - 03/12/2024 19:40:05    2582250

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "They were playing "sandbox" trial games for months and meeting "stakehokders"
Then the Inter pros.

Obviously delegates, Co Boards, CC, all felt football was gone so bad it needed immediate surgery.
Otherwise we'd be talking about it till 2030."
With respect, these so-called "sandbox" games are absolutely and completely irrelevant. Do you think players play in the same way in what is essentially a training game/kick around with zero consequences to the way they would treat a championship match in the height of summer? There's just no corelation. Akin to any young lad kicking around in the back garden, of course you're going to try mad low percentage shots from 40metres when there's no consequence for it going wide! These trial games for the new rules were a farce. And yet here we are introducing 18 new rules off the back of them! Mad stuff! What the makers of these rules seem to have completely forgotten is the fact that 90%+ of Gaelic Football matches are not senior inter-county matches with 7 or 8 officials keeping any eye on everything, but club matches at all grades and age groups up and down the country, where the referee is often the sole neutral official in charge. Do we honestly think that one referee is going to be able to see at all times if there are 3 players from each team up the field at all times for example while still being able to do all the things they currently are supposed to do and at times struggle doing? I just cannot seeing it not leading to severe frustration for all involve, or be implemented with any sort of consistency. While we all agree that football needs something to change to make it more watchable, rules are only as good as their ability to be implemented and I cannot see how that's possible with these bizarre rushed and unscrutinised changes all at once. Will referees at club level have any interest in implementing these rules or will most just pack it in and say its not worth the hassle of trying to see a badly-marked "arc" on a wet club pitch during a floodlit game in the month of March?!!!

TopoftheD (UK) - Posts: 3 - 03/12/2024 19:44:22    2582251

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse"
https://www.gaa.ie/article/webinar-to-outline-coaching-tips-for-new-gaelic-football-rule-enhancements
This should help

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14008 - 03/12/2024 20:14:54    2582256

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse"
I think less is changing on club game than you fear. Goal keepers used to stay in their 6 yard box and full forward lines used to stay forward. It's back to how football used to be; only with about 10 times more hand passing (why there's no change to the handpass is beyond me).

I do think we'll see tactical innovation in the intercounty game - particularly around the goal keeper role (a successful team will need a super fit fly 'keeper). But that would be very risky at club level.

As for the ref - they'll do their best as always. I think they'll manage the rules alright. The keeper back pass should be easy enough - and they'll catch the obvious 3 back ones.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 357 - 03/12/2024 21:56:34    2582270

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse"
I'd say we'll still call it Gaelic Football?.
I mean we didnt change the name of the sport when a few of the technical innovative coaches started bringing elements of the kids game donkey into gaelic football.

Seriously I'm in favour of trying radical action only because of I think I think the problems are severe and I have a feeling had we not going to have this much momentum for change again for a long time again if ever.

People talking about the risks are in denial about Gaelic football as things stand having serious issues.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 51 - 03/12/2024 22:45:01    2582274

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Replying To Kickitout:  "Just wondering what are they going call this new game that they invited i personally have never heard of any sport in the world which brings in so many rules they are telling players where they can go and not go on the field telling goalie he must kick ball outside of arc but can not touch ball again in his own half unless he gets pass from player also in 14 yard line for thrown in one player from each team stands on opposite sides of field this is an amateurs sport no other sport in world has so many stupid rules var is not far away ,, Armagh should keep the sam as this new game is totally different game to what's gone before,,, the GAA should have a competition to find a suitable name for this new game invited in 2025
I honestly think at grass route level or club football as it's know referees will not be able do it snd that's no reflection on them , I've spoken 2 referees who are packing it in next year they are almost 60 years of age and both said it be like going back to school not worth it for € 40 snd lots of abuse"
and the taxman sniffing around the €40 if reports in the examiner are correct.
i wouldnt do it for €200 and thats what it should be if anyone working and in the higher tax bracket.
That would give him €100 takehome for his approx 3 hrs plus diesel plus wear and tear( basing 3 hrs on most matches 35misn ish a half plus 10 mins for half time plus arrive 15mins before hand and leave 10 mins after . that leaves approx 30 mins traveling time each way and then a 50/50 chance of getting abused.

fairplay4ever (Galway) - Posts: 428 - 03/12/2024 23:06:54    2582278

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