National Forum

Some Updates On The Football Review

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "And what's your counter proposal for cynical fouling? Good if you have one but of course you never stated it."
Yellow card….. and if a player is going straight through on goal then a red card…. If the same play occurred like the one that sparked the whole knee jerk reaction ( McManus going through v Tyrone ) the same thing would probably happen but the team would only loose a player for 10 minutes… Do you not think a straight red for such a transgression would be more likely to cut out cynical fouls….? The black card only makes life more difficult for referees who have enough on their plate….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 12/09/2024 17:13:23    2569600

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Replying To sligo joe:  "The proposed 2 pointer is from 40 metres (44yds), not 35 yds. Which I suppose, wind assisted from in front of goals is not unusual but on average a 40 metre point from play is fairly impressive."
The 2 point proposal is utter nonsense…. Imagine a junior b game somewhere with no scoreboard the amount of confusion as regards scores and the extra pressure on referees to keep score… they are having problems enough with the current system…. I can see all this stuff only making the game worse

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 12/09/2024 17:18:23    2569604

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Replying To brianb:  "Some good points there. Could that be a miss with the rules committee? Playing all the sandbox games with intercounty players. Perhaps a few junior teams should trial them as well?

The idea behind the 2 points rule is to go over the blanket defence - draw it out and leave more space in behind for a four point goal. I think the proposed scores are wrong though. No way is a point kicked from 35 yards worth twice as much as one kicked from 25 and half as much as a goal."
I used to agree that the scoring scale should be different too but now I think it's ok.

In basketball, the 3v2 means the long shot has to be successful two-thirds of the time to be equal to a 'certain' 2-pointer. The FRC's 2:1 means success of only 50% for the long shot is worth the 1-pointer on average - so risk is more encouraged, which I like.

I think I read the FRC were originally considering a 5-pts goal but felt it might tip the scales too much in that the defence would board up - so 4 is ok (I think).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2908 - 12/09/2024 19:21:08    2569619

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Yellow card….. and if a player is going straight through on goal then a red card…. If the same play occurred like the one that sparked the whole knee jerk reaction ( McManus going through v Tyrone ) the same thing would probably happen but the team would only loose a player for 10 minutes… Do you not think a straight red for such a transgression would be more likely to cut out cynical fouls….? The black card only makes life more difficult for referees who have enough on their plate…."
You are some craic so just a yellow card for a cynical foul out the pitch stopping a score for the attacking team. Imagine the amount of tactical fouling going on all over the place if a team is winning with a few minutes left and have lads who are not booked.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8174 - 12/09/2024 19:50:00    2569621

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You are some craic so just a yellow card for a cynical foul out the pitch stopping a score for the attacking team. Imagine the amount of tactical fouling going on all over the place if a team is winning with a few minutes left and have lads who are not booked."
The black card won't stop those sort of tactical foul late in games….. referees can't handle 2 cards let alone 3….. they hate the black card like everyone else except you it seems

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 12/09/2024 20:06:46    2569624

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The one with most potential is the "Gaelic Offside" needing 3 players up at all times. It wouldn't be easy on refs but possibly doable at club the others are not really workable at all."
Well, here's one with the "three up" rule....

You're one of the designated three forwards who must be inside the opposition 45m line. You're standing unmarked just inside the line. Midfield area is empty while other 12 on your team are playing as a massed defence. One of them wins the ball, sees you free up the field, and boots the ball towards you.

He doesn't hit it hard enough and it rolls along a bit before coming to a halt just one the wrong side of the line as far as you're concerned.

Now all you can do is stand there and look at it and wait for somebody else to run and pick up the ball instead.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2630 - 12/09/2024 21:57:08    2569635

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The black card won't stop those sort of tactical foul late in games….. referees can't handle 2 cards let alone 3….. they hate the black card like everyone else except you it seems"
Of course it will stop them. Imagine a team a few points up with 5 minutes left. You think they will start hauling lads down if they are going to be gone for the remainder of the game. Black card isn't perfect but you are embarrassing yourself here. Clearly don't go to matches or have any involvement in your local club.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8174 - 12/09/2024 22:10:31    2569636

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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland:  "Just stop the goalie being able to run out beyond his own 21 yard line (and that includes for free kicks), player must kick the ball after a handpass and trial the 3 and 3. That's all that is needed.
The increase in points doesn't make any sense to me and impossible to referee. Imagine a county final, final kick of the game and there's murder about whether the ball was kicked inside a line or outside it for 2 points to win a game by one point."
Why does the goalie have to be restricted? Back to the old days of if you can boot the ball far and your maybe not at peak fitness, sher go into goals there for awhile?? Lot of modern goalies are very good footballers, they shouldn't be restricted from showcasing their talents

D.Hyde (Roscommon) - Posts: 217 - 12/09/2024 22:51:40    2569641

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Replying To omahant:  "FRC '3 Up / 3 Back' Rule.

Could someone explain the '3 Back' part.
It seems a blanket-defence minded team can keep '3 Up / 11 Back'.

How does this promote long kicking after a defensive turnover by the 'adventurous team', given possible outnumbered '11v3' down field?

To counter, are we are back to a 'short hand pass procession' like before?"
Could someone chime in, please?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2908 - 13/09/2024 03:54:11    2569649

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Are you clueless….: what exactly has the black card done to improve the game… No 2 referees interpret the same way…is 2 cards not enough to deal with any incidents….? If ever a rule was brought in because of a knee jerk reaction to a comment made on tv that was it…. Not one player, supporter, referee or manager in the country would complain if the black card was binned…."
The black card was not introduced because of Cavanagh gate. It was already approved and ready for introduction before Brolly spat his dummy out on TV over something that had been seen a hundred times before. He even referred to it being approved in his rant. It's funny how you consider that a 'knee jerk reaction' when A, it's false, and B, you make knee jerk calls for rule changes every time you see a poor match as if they never existed before.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2508 - 13/09/2024 08:21:37    2569656

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Replying To omahant:  "Could someone chime in, please?"
Well at the moment some teams when not in possession have all their players back and then when the attacking team press there are maybe 28 or even 29 players in one half, total congestion. With now at least three players "forward" presumably the team in possession will leave at least 3 (probably 4 or 5) back leaving a max of 23 (probably 21 or 22) players in the "congested" half.
It would be unfair if in say the last few minutes a team chasing a goal to save the game could commit all their players forward but the defending team has to leave 3 players looking at each other in the other half, so 3 must stay back.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 13/09/2024 09:57:28    2569668

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "The black card was not introduced because of Cavanagh gate. It was already approved and ready for introduction before Brolly spat his dummy out on TV over something that had been seen a hundred times before. He even referred to it being approved in his rant. It's funny how you consider that a 'knee jerk reaction' when A, it's false, and B, you make knee jerk calls for rule changes every time you see a poor match as if they never existed before."
Makes no difference…. no need for the black card.. Cavanagh should have got a straight red card for that incident and no more about it… now this dummy review committee are going to bring in more fouls that might merit a black card… If some of these nonsensical rule changes are voted in the game will turn into a farce … they have already meddled far too much with the rules and if this lot get their way it will be the final death nail for the game….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 13/09/2024 10:13:00    2569674

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Replying To D.Hyde:  "Why does the goalie have to be restricted? Back to the old days of if you can boot the ball far and your maybe not at peak fitness, sher go into goals there for awhile?? Lot of modern goalies are very good footballers, they shouldn't be restricted from showcasing their talents"
Because the goalies these days are completely slowing down the pace of the play strolling up the field with the ball, and defenders backpassing to them, and indeed the length of time it takes them to come up and get ready to take a free on goal. Now you might say that is the fault of the attacking team who aren't running up on them and flattening them but this rule would prevent negative delaying tactics.

With all due respect to goalkeepers, if they are very good footballers then they should be in midfield or at half back so we can see their footballing skills, goalkeeping is for footballing skills between the posts

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 13/09/2024 11:26:35    2569681

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Makes no difference…. no need for the black card.. Cavanagh should have got a straight red card for that incident and no more about it… now this dummy review committee are going to bring in more fouls that might merit a black card… If some of these nonsensical rule changes are voted in the game will turn into a farce … they have already meddled far too much with the rules and if this lot get their way it will be the final death nail for the game…."
But you said it was a knee jerk reaction when it clearly wasn't. You are also on here every day complaining about the state of the game, now your complaining about all the rule changes too. So have you any practical solutions for the game that don't require rule changes? or do you just like to moan for the sake of it?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2508 - 13/09/2024 11:36:42    2569683

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Makes no difference…. no need for the black card.. Cavanagh should have got a straight red card for that incident and no more about it… now this dummy review committee are going to bring in more fouls that might merit a black card… If some of these nonsensical rule changes are voted in the game will turn into a farce … they have already meddled far too much with the rules and if this lot get their way it will be the final death nail for the game…."
I see you didn't respond to my post and my specific circumstances during a game.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8174 - 13/09/2024 11:46:26    2569685

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Replying To D.Hyde:  "Why does the goalie have to be restricted? Back to the old days of if you can boot the ball far and your maybe not at peak fitness, sher go into goals there for awhile?? Lot of modern goalies are very good footballers, they shouldn't be restricted from showcasing their talents"
D. Hyde. I think increasing the value of a goal or point, in certain conditions, doesn't make sense to me.
The problem is the ultra defensive footbal, played by club and county sides.

Goalkeepers primary job is to keep their goal intact, but now they are part of team strategy, in kick outs, free taking, and support play.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 13/09/2024 11:56:57    2569686

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The 2 point proposal is utter nonsense…. Imagine a junior b game somewhere with no scoreboard the amount of confusion as regards scores and the extra pressure on referees to keep score… they are having problems enough with the current system…. I can see all this stuff only making the game worse"
Exactly. In a junior football game played at a rural venue, with badly defined pitch marking, how do you adjudicatecwherecthe ball was kicked from?

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 13/09/2024 12:00:30    2569687

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Replying To thelongridge:  "D. Hyde. I think increasing the value of a goal or point, in certain conditions, doesn't make sense to me.
The problem is the ultra defensive footbal, played by club and county sides.

Goalkeepers primary job is to keep their goal intact, but now they are part of team strategy, in kick outs, free taking, and support play."
Then possibly what to do they are trialing changes u say want it but what are you alternatives.

I can tap and go and 3 players up definitely and 1 on 1 midfield.

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 530 - 13/09/2024 12:05:15    2569688

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Replying To thelongridge:  "D. Hyde. I think increasing the value of a goal or point, in certain conditions, doesn't make sense to me.
The problem is the ultra defensive footbal, played by club and county sides.

Goalkeepers primary job is to keep their goal intact, but now they are part of team strategy, in kick outs, free taking, and support play."
In ideal world wouldn't have changed the rules if managers didn't have mindset and if they were forced to play more attacking but we all know that won't happen with too much ambiguity so it forces people hand to make change and see what works and doesn't

Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 530 - 13/09/2024 12:06:19    2569689

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Exactly. In a junior football game played at a rural venue, with badly defined pitch marking, how do you adjudicatecwherecthe ball was kicked from?"
Ah yes because all the other new rules never work at Junior level . These are such lazy examples and controversies are few and far between. One poster debating the black card as if it's causing issues at club level all the time. It isn't, but then again anyone who is involved at club level would know this.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8174 - 13/09/2024 12:08:49    2569691

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