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Replying To OpenStand: "That Club In Derry that had two players double marking a player in an Under 14 Final should be called in front of Jim Gavins working group to explain their cynical carry on so Jim can get behind the heads of these people destroying Gaelic Football before all selectors of that under 14 team are banned for 10 years" Sure the other team had only one player forward, they had 14 players in their own half. They were the team at fault leaving one young lad on his own in the opposition half!
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 02/09/2024 12:40:48
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Most of the changes are now known
1. Extending the championship into August - not in 2025, but will go to Congress in 2025 to see if there is an appetite for an All Ireland on the August Bank Holiday.
2.Changes to the structure in Football - likely to be progressed to change round robin in football - likely to go to Congress in 2025, or potentially special congress in December.
3. Rule changes - more "sand box" tests in October with rules to go to a special congress before Christmas. Proposals will be as follows:
(a) - amend forward mark to automatic play on and must be caught in side the 20m line
(b) - GAA offside - Each team must keep 3 outfield players inside both their own 45 and the oppositions 45 m line at all times.
(d) - Goalkeeper to be kept inside own 45m line at all times
(e) - kick outs from a wide to be brought back to edge of small square
(f) - 2 point scoring Arc" The remit of the review committee does not include the gaa calendar or structure of competitions so from the point of view of Jim Gavin's committee proposals you can scratch points 1 and 2.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 02/09/2024 12:44:45
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Replying To sligo joe: "I definitely have a big preference for the finals in September. The problem is the players both club and county campaigned for the change and it was conceded by the powers that be. I cannot see any reversal of the calendar being imposed on the players, they just wouldn't wear it. The only way I see any move back is if it is driven by the players themselves and I see no sign of that at present." I prefer the new championship arrangements, than the September Finals, which belonged to a different era. August dates would be fine too, if there is a desire for change. Just a pity that it took the pandemic to introduce the split season. The players seem to prefer the new arrangements, they are the important ones in the debate.
Perhaps the reason for patrons not attending games, could be down to the quality, or lack of it, in football games because of the defensive game played at present.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 02/09/2024 12:59:10
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Replying To thelongridge: "I prefer the new championship arrangements, than the September Finals, which belonged to a different era. August dates would be fine too, if there is a desire for change. Just a pity that it took the pandemic to introduce the split season. The players seem to prefer the new arrangements, they are the important ones in the debate.
Perhaps the reason for patrons not attending games, could be down to the quality, or lack of it, in football games because of the defensive game played at present." I'm kind of from a different era too so probably have a traditional bias towards September but I'm 100% with that the players are the important ones and I understand their preference for the new calendar.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 02/09/2024 14:37:11
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Replying To thelongridge: "I prefer the new championship arrangements, than the September Finals, which belonged to a different era. August dates would be fine too, if there is a desire for change. Just a pity that it took the pandemic to introduce the split season. The players seem to prefer the new arrangements, they are the important ones in the debate.
Perhaps the reason for patrons not attending games, could be down to the quality, or lack of it, in football games because of the defensive game played at present." I think they went a step too far with changing the final dates… middle August would be much better… You are correct in saying the dramatic drop in attendance figures is purely down to the absolute dross that football has become… When you compare it to the excitement and quality of the hurling Championships they are poles apart…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 03/09/2024 07:09:05
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I think they went a step too far with changing the final dates… middle August would be much better… You are correct in saying the dramatic drop in attendance figures is purely down to the absolute dross that football has become… When you compare it to the excitement and quality of the hurling Championships they are poles apart…" The two Offaly SFC games I attended were just a show of endless passing, and players unwilling to shoot from 20/30 yards from goal. All to a boring system.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 03/09/2024 15:02:57
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Replying To thelongridge: "I prefer the new championship arrangements, than the September Finals, which belonged to a different era. August dates would be fine too, if there is a desire for change. Just a pity that it took the pandemic to introduce the split season. The players seem to prefer the new arrangements, they are the important ones in the debate.
Perhaps the reason for patrons not attending games, could be down to the quality, or lack of it, in football games because of the defensive game played at present." In football, the defensive nature of the game, the split season and a lack of competitiveness in Munster and Leinster all partly cause less people to attend the games. It would be very difficult to split these factors apart. Luckily Hurling has retained its competitiveness and hasn't tinkered with the structure and rules to the same extent - so it will be seen clearer.
Despite hurling apparently being in the best state its ever been All Ireland series crowds have also been dropping. The 2022 and 2024 semi finals between Kilkenny and Clare are the only times that a hurling semi final have attracted less that 40k (excluding replays) since 2005 (Kilkenny v Galway).
Yes a resurgent Cork brought a large crowd this year - so maybe its that Kilkenny and Clare bring smaller crowds - but it will be well worth keeping an eye on these attendances as well as the split season experiment goes on.
I've a feeling that football crowds will rebound in the next year or two. The game looks as competitive as it has been in a long time. With one or two tweaks to make it less defensive added in the game itself will be in rude health. The split season will be reviewed and likely a mid - late august compromise will be reached for the All Ireland final.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 357 - 05/09/2024 17:16:00
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Replying To brianb: "In football, the defensive nature of the game, the split season and a lack of competitiveness in Munster and Leinster all partly cause less people to attend the games. It would be very difficult to split these factors apart. Luckily Hurling has retained its competitiveness and hasn't tinkered with the structure and rules to the same extent - so it will be seen clearer.
Despite hurling apparently being in the best state its ever been All Ireland series crowds have also been dropping. The 2022 and 2024 semi finals between Kilkenny and Clare are the only times that a hurling semi final have attracted less that 40k (excluding replays) since 2005 (Kilkenny v Galway).
Yes a resurgent Cork brought a large crowd this year - so maybe its that Kilkenny and Clare bring smaller crowds - but it will be well worth keeping an eye on these attendances as well as the split season experiment goes on.
I've a feeling that football crowds will rebound in the next year or two. The game looks as competitive as it has been in a long time. With one or two tweaks to make it less defensive added in the game itself will be in rude health. The split season will be reviewed and likely a mid - late august compromise will be reached for the All Ireland final." Just on your last point, Brian, do you think the players will compromise their stated position of being in favour of the July finals or do you believe Central Council/Congress will vote through a "compromise" and fix the finals for 2nd half of August in spite of the players.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 05/09/2024 18:00:20
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Replying To sligo joe: "Just on your last point, Brian, do you think the players will compromise their stated position of being in favour of the July finals or do you believe Central Council/Congress will vote through a "compromise" and fix the finals for 2nd half of August in spite of the players." I'd say the most movement will be Hurling Final last week July and Football one 1st weekend August.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1979 - 05/09/2024 19:18:35
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Replying To sligo joe: "Just on your last point, Brian, do you think the players will compromise their stated position of being in favour of the July finals or do you believe Central Council/Congress will vote through a "compromise" and fix the finals for 2nd half of August in spite of the players." I think it would be despite the proponents of the split season. Don't get me wrong; the certainly of fixtures that the split season brings is welcome but it's not the only way to bring about certainty.
I read an interesting case study on the decline of Australian rugby. Essentially with Rugby union was extremely popular there at the turn of the century after they won the world cup in 1999. The ARU got a mega contract to put the new Super rugby teams behind a paywall. They threw the club game into conflict with the super rugby teams. It didn't work. First people stopped going to the games; then kids stopped playing the games leading to less watching again. Ultimately they're left trying to rebuild the grass roots now.
The GAA are ticking a lot of those same boxes now. The club and county game should be recognised as the same game and coexist rather than take from each other. The GAAGo paywall is very dangerous. We all want our games to be strong for the next 100 years.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 357 - 05/09/2024 20:54:42
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Replying To thelongridge: "The two Offaly SFC games I attended were just a show of endless passing, and players unwilling to shoot from 20/30 yards from goal. All to a boring system." If I said it once I have said it a thousand times… coaches have destroyed Gaelic football… it's all about not taking any risks whilst in possession which leads to this boring possession based football with endless sideways and backwards passing… players are petrified to loose possession so they refuse shots at goal from 20/30 yards out as you witnessed….. Is it any wonder people are refusing to part with their hard earned cash to go and see that… The football review committee has been setup as the big wigs at the top know the game is in big trouble but their changes may prove impossible to implement at football's lowest level..but then again that level holds little interest for them….!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 05/09/2024 21:17:39
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "If I said it once I have said it a thousand times… coaches have destroyed Gaelic football… it's all about not taking any risks whilst in possession which leads to this boring possession based football with endless sideways and backwards passing… players are petrified to loose possession so they refuse shots at goal from 20/30 yards out as you witnessed….. Is it any wonder people are refusing to part with their hard earned cash to go and see that… The football review committee has been setup as the big wigs at the top know the game is in big trouble but their changes may prove impossible to implement at football's lowest level..but then again that level holds little interest for them….!" Why don't you form a breakaway sport then? Maybe not a sport actually, because coaching won't be allowed. But a bit like WWE you could send out a bunch of lads in Peaky Blinders caps and cigarettes in their mouths like the good old days. Go out and just drive the ball up the field and swing punches at whoever is in possession. No hand passing, just aimless kicks, no training because that's too robotic. No emphasis on winning because that takes the fun out of it. Just lads on a field kicking the ball over the bar with only one man allowed near him and give the trophy to both sides at the end because it's all about entertainment, not winning. You could be like the Jake Paul of the GAA, calling out finished GAA players to come join the pantomime. See if your ideals can draw a bigger crowd.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2508 - 06/09/2024 09:44:02
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "If I said it once I have said it a thousand times… coaches have destroyed Gaelic football… it's all about not taking any risks whilst in possession which leads to this boring possession based football with endless sideways and backwards passing… players are petrified to loose possession so they refuse shots at goal from 20/30 yards out as you witnessed….. Is it any wonder people are refusing to part with their hard earned cash to go and see that… The football review committee has been setup as the big wigs at the top know the game is in big trouble but their changes may prove impossible to implement at football's lowest level..but then again that level holds little interest for them….!" Call 0818 715 815 (lines open between 12.30pm - 3.15pm Monday to Friday) . Talk to Joe. You are the ideal caller.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8174 - 06/09/2024 11:42:02
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Why don't you form a breakaway sport then? Maybe not a sport actually, because coaching won't be allowed. But a bit like WWE you could send out a bunch of lads in Peaky Blinders caps and cigarettes in their mouths like the good old days. Go out and just drive the ball up the field and swing punches at whoever is in possession. No hand passing, just aimless kicks, no training because that's too robotic. No emphasis on winning because that takes the fun out of it. Just lads on a field kicking the ball over the bar with only one man allowed near him and give the trophy to both sides at the end because it's all about entertainment, not winning. You could be like the Jake Paul of the GAA, calling out finished GAA players to come join the pantomime. See if your ideals can draw a bigger crowd." So true. Ah the lad is so demented he can't see the trees for the forest. Doubt if he has ever been to a GAA game in his life. How can he go through life not knowing that hurling is played with a hurl and football no longer allows weapons on the field. Thought it might be different in Cavan so with a free weekend in Monaghan last week I took myself off to a championship game in his county. Was a very good crowd in attendance and it was a very enjoyable game of football so I have to conclude he doesn't attend club football either. Checked out the umpires just in case there was a spacer among them. Nothing to report. No wides being flagged as points. I expect the forums to get very busy again as Walter Mitty realises that the powers that be are not going to allow a return to his "good old day" of finals in late September,replays in November, straight knock out championship, county finals on Xmas eve, changing facilities behind hedges, peaky caps on all players, after one play ball must be thumped back to the opposition and the admission to the All Ireland Final set at £2. If there wasn't a guy called ForeverBlue,we would have to invent one. Otherwise we would never realise how far our games have come in 150 years.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 391 - 06/09/2024 11:59:06
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Replying To brianb: "I think it would be despite the proponents of the split season. Don't get me wrong; the certainly of fixtures that the split season brings is welcome but it's not the only way to bring about certainty.
I read an interesting case study on the decline of Australian rugby. Essentially with Rugby union was extremely popular there at the turn of the century after they won the world cup in 1999. The ARU got a mega contract to put the new Super rugby teams behind a paywall. They threw the club game into conflict with the super rugby teams. It didn't work. First people stopped going to the games; then kids stopped playing the games leading to less watching again. Ultimately they're left trying to rebuild the grass roots now.
The GAA are ticking a lot of those same boxes now. The club and county game should be recognised as the same game and coexist rather than take from each other. The GAAGo paywall is very dangerous. We all want our games to be strong for the next 100 years." Sure rugby union did get a boost in Oz after they won the world cup but in reality union has always been behind Rules and rugby league over there and soccer is now taking over in Australia and soccer is threatening rugby union big time in New Zealand. You are right the GAA cannot be complacent, there is a lot of competition out there both for participants and supporters. Maybe conceding to the wishes of the players regarding playing the finals in July was a mistake but surely attempting to reverse the decision now without player agreement would be an even bigger error.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 803 - 06/09/2024 12:02:01
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Replying To brianb: "I agree that its not clear to "everyone" - the debate on here shows that. The fixtures mess that we had before wasn't fair on the club player and the split season fixes this. I believe a master fixtures list with an agreed overlap between club and county commitments would be a much better solution where you can get the best of both.
With Oasis taking up station in Croke Park next August its clear that the season is going to stay much as it is for another year at least. Perhaps county boards will be able to use that time better next year but I doubt it.
We are talking on this thread around declining attendances and the Football review. The review is happening because people have been voting with their feet and not getting out to matches in they way they did before. I believe the championship structure and the rush to play the games ASAP is really adding to this." An overlap with a 'shared August' for both AIC Finals and club activity is all that's needed. I like the idea, recommended elsewhere, where AI Finalists could have their County Club Champions receiving a first rd Provincial Championship bye to help them finish their County Club Championship late.
I have had an idea for an inter-county League-Championship, combining elements of the League, Provinces & Group Stage.
In summary form:
- Two league tiers of 16
- All play 12 of 15 opponents
- Draw '4 groups of 4' to determine 'avoided teams' (all played ties are two-group crossover)
- Prov SFC ties 'double up' as league results when both teams are from same tier (cuts game count)
- Play Prov Prelim & QFs at start of & mid Feb prior to Group Draw to ensure SFs & Finals (and played Prelim/QFs) are all 'crossover' ties
- Tier 1 & 2 top team claim respective "League 1" & "League 2" titles
- Tier 1 top 8 to Sam 'Aussie AFL-style' Playoffs;
Bottom 8 & Tier 2 top 4 to 'AI Shield' 12-team KO; and
Tier 2 middle 8 to 'AI Plate' 8-team KO
- Prov Champs enter Sam, Shield or Plate playoffs based on league placing (no Sam guarantee)
- Shield 'QF 8' are Tier 1 the next year
- Combined 12 games compares well with current 11-15, i.e. League 7 or 8, Province 1 to 4 & Group Stage 3.
CALENDAR
Week Activity
-3 to 0 (all of Jan) 'Light' Pre-Season Warm-Up
1 (start of Feb) Prov Prelim Rd
2 Prov QFs
2 (after QFs) AILC Draw (2 tiers of 4x4)
2 (after Draw) Prelim/QF results to league tables?
3 Bye Week
4 (end of Feb) Start of Regular Season
12 (end of Apr) Rd includes 8 Prov SFs
17 & 18 Rds include 4 Prov Finals
20 End of Regular Season
21 (end of June) Bye Week
22 AIC Series Rd 1, AI Shield Rd 1 & AI Plate QFs
23 AIC QFs & AI Shield QFs
24 AI Plate SFs
25 (end of July) AIC SFs & AI Shield SFs
26 AI Plate Final
27 (2nd week of Aug) AIC Final & AI Shield Final
Note - Teams play 12 regular season games and '0 to 4' post-season games from Weeks 1-20 and 22-27, respectively, with 'staggered bye weeks' for each team providing sufficient rest time.
Would it work?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2908 - 06/09/2024 16:29:59
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Replying To omahant: "An overlap with a 'shared August' for both AIC Finals and club activity is all that's needed. I like the idea, recommended elsewhere, where AI Finalists could have their County Club Champions receiving a first rd Provincial Championship bye to help them finish their County Club Championship late.
I have had an idea for an inter-county League-Championship, combining elements of the League, Provinces & Group Stage.
In summary form:
- Two league tiers of 16
- All play 12 of 15 opponents
- Draw '4 groups of 4' to determine 'avoided teams' (all played ties are two-group crossover)
- Prov SFC ties 'double up' as league results when both teams are from same tier (cuts game count)
- Play Prov Prelim & QFs at start of & mid Feb prior to Group Draw to ensure SFs & Finals (and played Prelim/QFs) are all 'crossover' ties
- Tier 1 & 2 top team claim respective "League 1" & "League 2" titles
- Tier 1 top 8 to Sam 'Aussie AFL-style' Playoffs;
Bottom 8 & Tier 2 top 4 to 'AI Shield' 12-team KO; and
Tier 2 middle 8 to 'AI Plate' 8-team KO
- Prov Champs enter Sam, Shield or Plate playoffs based on league placing (no Sam guarantee)
- Shield 'QF 8' are Tier 1 the next year
- Combined 12 games compares well with current 11-15, i.e. League 7 or 8, Province 1 to 4 & Group Stage 3.
CALENDAR
Week Activity
-3 to 0 (all of Jan) 'Light' Pre-Season Warm-Up
1 (start of Feb) Prov Prelim Rd
2 Prov QFs
2 (after QFs) AILC Draw (2 tiers of 4x4)
2 (after Draw) Prelim/QF results to league tables?
3 Bye Week
4 (end of Feb) Start of Regular Season
12 (end of Apr) Rd includes 8 Prov SFs
17 & 18 Rds include 4 Prov Finals
20 End of Regular Season
21 (end of June) Bye Week
22 AIC Series Rd 1, AI Shield Rd 1 & AI Plate QFs
23 AIC QFs & AI Shield QFs
24 AI Plate SFs
25 (end of July) AIC SFs & AI Shield SFs
26 AI Plate Final
27 (2nd week of Aug) AIC Final & AI Shield Final
Note - Teams play 12 regular season games and '0 to 4' post-season games from Weeks 1-20 and 22-27, respectively, with 'staggered bye weeks' for each team providing sufficient rest time.
Would it work?" No need for any of your nonsensical ideas. We have a perfect split season and AIC and it won't be changing. The players will ensure that.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 391 - 06/09/2024 23:11:22
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Replying To omahant: "An overlap with a 'shared August' for both AIC Finals and club activity is all that's needed. I like the idea, recommended elsewhere, where AI Finalists could have their County Club Champions receiving a first rd Provincial Championship bye to help them finish their County Club Championship late.
I have had an idea for an inter-county League-Championship, combining elements of the League, Provinces & Group Stage.
In summary form:
- Two league tiers of 16
- All play 12 of 15 opponents
- Draw '4 groups of 4' to determine 'avoided teams' (all played ties are two-group crossover)
- Prov SFC ties 'double up' as league results when both teams are from same tier (cuts game count)
- Play Prov Prelim & QFs at start of & mid Feb prior to Group Draw to ensure SFs & Finals (and played Prelim/QFs) are all 'crossover' ties
- Tier 1 & 2 top team claim respective "League 1" & "League 2" titles
- Tier 1 top 8 to Sam 'Aussie AFL-style' Playoffs;
Bottom 8 & Tier 2 top 4 to 'AI Shield' 12-team KO; and
Tier 2 middle 8 to 'AI Plate' 8-team KO
- Prov Champs enter Sam, Shield or Plate playoffs based on league placing (no Sam guarantee)
- Shield 'QF 8' are Tier 1 the next year
- Combined 12 games compares well with current 11-15, i.e. League 7 or 8, Province 1 to 4 & Group Stage 3.
CALENDAR
Week Activity
-3 to 0 (all of Jan) 'Light' Pre-Season Warm-Up
1 (start of Feb) Prov Prelim Rd
2 Prov QFs
2 (after QFs) AILC Draw (2 tiers of 4x4)
2 (after Draw) Prelim/QF results to league tables?
3 Bye Week
4 (end of Feb) Start of Regular Season
12 (end of Apr) Rd includes 8 Prov SFs
17 & 18 Rds include 4 Prov Finals
20 End of Regular Season
21 (end of June) Bye Week
22 AIC Series Rd 1, AI Shield Rd 1 & AI Plate QFs
23 AIC QFs & AI Shield QFs
24 AI Plate SFs
25 (end of July) AIC SFs & AI Shield SFs
26 AI Plate Final
27 (2nd week of Aug) AIC Final & AI Shield Final
Note - Teams play 12 regular season games and '0 to 4' post-season games from Weeks 1-20 and 22-27, respectively, with 'staggered bye weeks' for each team providing sufficient rest time.
Would it work?" No!!!!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1979 - 06/09/2024 23:22:43
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "No need for any of your nonsensical ideas. We have a perfect split season and AIC and it won't be changing. The players will ensure that." It will change from a Group to a "double defeat elimination" system.
To be decided if that's starting in 2025 or 2026.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1979 - 07/09/2024 10:04:39
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "It will change from a Group to a "double defeat elimination" system.
To be decided if that's starting in 2025 or 2026." Not according to the people I have spoken to. All except pundits and journalists are happy as it is. All teams guaranteed 3 AIC games. 12 teams guaranteed 4 games. Great chance for teams to improve with the extra games against similar or better opposition. In time it will lead to more teams having a chance at getting to an All Ireland Final. As a fan in 2 years I have been to Derry,Kerry, Cavan, Omagh, Croke Park and Tullamore. Have had Louth and Clare play in Clones. What more could one ask for in May,June and July. Then our Club Championship to look forward to from mid-August.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 391 - 07/09/2024 15:57:14
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