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@edu (Mayo) - Posts: 68 - 03/01/2025 21:14:40 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 04/01/2025 01:01:47 2584501 Link 0 |
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But the Provincial Winners are qualifying through the League route .Since the 16 team A.I.C was introduced in 2023 all the 8 Provincial winners were qualified through their League position and is highly likely that will continue into the future. A team would have to finish outside the top 13 or 14 in the League [All Division 1 and the top 5/6 in Division 2] in order to qualify through the Provincial route only .Can not see many Provincial Champions outside the the top 13/14 in the League in 2025 or any other year for that matter. There might be one every ten years or so.
edu (Mayo) - Posts: 72 - 04/01/2025 01:08:38 2584502 Link 0 |
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8389 - 03/01/2025 22:15:33 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 04/01/2025 01:13:05 2584503 Link 0 |
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8389 - 03/01/2025 22:15:33 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 04/01/2025 01:30:10 2584504 Link 0 |
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where a team had to win their Provincial Championship in order to progress in the A.I.C. That changed with the advent of the Qualifiers in 2001 when for the first time a team could lose in their P.C and still progress in the A.I.C or even win it. Winning a P.C did however confer a significant reward--direct entry into Q.F and avoidance of other P.C. Winners in that round. Even getting to a P.C Final guaranteed a last 12 place. Similarly with the super 8s the 4 P.C. Winners qualified directly. However since the introduction of the current 16 team A.I.C in 2023 the P.C link to the A.I.C has now been reduced to qualifiers for Division 4 teams[D4 is the only Division where a team can not qualify out of for A.I.C.] and Division 3 teams that do not finish in top 2 in that Division. Even winning or finishing 2nd in Division 3 is not a guarantee of a place in the A.I.C. as happened in 2023 when no Division 3 team qualified for the A.I.C. The ironic thing is that those teams that have qualified for the A.I.C through this route have been out of their dept and it may actually been better to have being competing in the Tailteann Cup. Also a Division 1 team need not even need to play in their P.C in order to participate in the A.I.C Over the last year or so I have posted a number of proposals on this forum for various formats for a revamped A.I.C[and/or overall Football Season] incorporating the 4 P.C.s as have numerous other forum users [two posters in particular]. All this has led me to reach the following conclusion- and that is in order to be able to organize a proper tiered Championship the 4 regional Championships need to be decoupled from the National Championship. These 4 regional championships vary greatly in numbers and in overall strength in dept. Of course it looks like the P.C link is set to continue for the next while [years or even decade[s]] The P.C.s have a very important place in the Football calendar and even severing the link with the A.I.C will not change that."]It's obvious to everyone that starting the all Ireland with the provincial championships is starting a journey by going 100 miles in the wrong direction. In typical GAA style once the provincial are decoupled from the all Ireland, the masses will wonder why we didn't do it years ago (like lifting the ban on foreign sports, opening croke park etc). tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1205 - 04/01/2025 05:54:22 2584507 Link 1 |
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"But the Provincial Winners are qualifying through the League route .Since the 16 team A.I.C was introduced in 2023 all the 8 Provincial winners were qualified through their League position and is highly likely that will continue into the future. A team would have to finish outside the top 13 or 14 in the League (All Division 1 and the top 5/6 in Division 2) in order to qualify through the Provincial route only .Can not see many Provincial Champions outside the the top 13/14 in the League in 2025 or any other year for that matter. There might be one every ten years or so. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8406 - 04/01/2025 09:25:44 2584514 Link 0 |
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@tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1205 - 04/01/2025 05:54:22 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 04/01/2025 14:20:22 2584574 Link 0 |
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8393 - 04/01/2025 09:25:44 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 04/01/2025 14:43:37 2584584 Link 0 |
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You could but there has to be an incentive for winning the province. There should also be jeopardy for being a Seed 4. The Tailteann winner like Down having home advantage in Round 1 should be a plus as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8406 - 04/01/2025 15:58:02 2584592 Link 0 |
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I suppose I'd just give Prov Champs a berth in AIC Rd of 16 and just seed with home ties based on league ranking (I just think it's fairer, given Prov strength disparity). To go off on a tangent - US College Football (CFB, American Football) is currently playing its playoffs, its first year with an expanded 12-team KO. Four conference champs were provided high seeds and 1st rd byes. There has been a lot of controversy because stronger teams had to play in the 1st rd and many feel it's unfair. Some favour seedings based on match record/performance - sound familiar? Another one - In a little over an hour, Minnesota hosts Detroit in the last game of the NFL regular season. Both teams are 14-2 teams, the two best records. However, as NFL prioritises seeding for division winners, the winner of that match will be seeded 1 (with a bye and two home ties) and the loser 5 (no bye and at least two, if not three, away ties), if they get to their Conference Championship games. Again, many are crying foul - saying the teams should be seeded 1 & 2 - sound familiar again? The NFL might argue, that given the 1 & 5 disparity, there is more on the line for winning the division - if 1 & 2, it's almost a dead rubber. While you could argue either way - I'm with the 'crying foul' crowd - reward the season performance (in CFB, NFL, GAA or my AILC). At least, I want to be consistent. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 06/01/2025 00:07:45 2584736 Link 0 |
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@ omahant (USA) - Posts: 2953 - 06/01/2025 00:07:45, legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8406 - 06/01/2025 17:26:46 2584808 Link 0 |
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League shouldn't be played ro conclusion before championship starts. It should be like soccer and rugby and many other sports where teams play multiple competitions at same time not one building to the next to the next
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 06/01/2025 17:34:03 2584811 Link 0 |
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8397 - 06/01/2025 17:26:46 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 06/01/2025 19:22:37 2584819 Link 1 |
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Can only imagine the kind of C teams Counties would put out in the Leagues in such a scenario.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2015 - 06/01/2025 19:53:40 2584821 Link 0 |
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Ulster will do even better this year after Down winning the Tailteann. 7 of the 9 Ulster counties will probably qualify for the All Ireland. If Fermanagh win Division 3, it could be 8!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8406 - 06/01/2025 21:02:17 2584827 Link 0 |
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I am sure you did not mean to have the League running alongside the A.I.C /T.C group stages as that definitely would be a non starter but yes having the League and the Provincial Championships being played in tandem would be an excellent and an innovative move. The main thinking behind having both competitions played in tandem would be that it would get rid of the long break [anything from 4 weeks up to 7 weeks] that teams losing in first rounds of the Provincial Championships face until the play in the A.I.C/ T.C. I am sure it puts those teams at a competitive disadvantage come Championship time . With both competitions being run parallel it would mean those early Provincial losers would have their next game [a League game] within a week[ or 2]. It definitely be more beneficial to those teams to have a more compact schedule than having a long competitive game break. Any other or better ideas on ways of organizing the current K.O Provincials that are sandwiched between the League and Championship[s] that would go some way to eliminate the above mentioned long dormant mid season competitive game pause ? edu (Mayo) - Posts: 72 - 06/01/2025 22:54:26 2584838 Link 0 |
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If the league is elevated that's fine but it should be played in parallel with the Provincials and I'm not sure it's necessary for the All Ireland phase to be groups or double elimination. If you had the league being played to later in the year was a 2nd tier championship actually even needed. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4355 - 07/01/2025 09:38:18 2584854 Link 0 |
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Following on from the Dublin motion for players being available for county league, there is an argument that the current provincial championships after league should see players from counties knocked out making players available for their clubs. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8406 - 07/01/2025 11:20:40 2584869 Link 0 |
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@edu (Mayo) - Posts: 70 - 06/01/2025 22:54:26 omahant (USA) - Posts: 2966 - 07/01/2025 19:30:55 2584971 Link 0 |
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that teams losing in first rounds of the Provincial Championships face until the play in the A.I.C/ T.C. I am sure it puts those teams at a competitive disadvantage come Championship time . With both competitions being run parallel it would mean those early Provincial losers would have their next game [a League game] within a week[ or 2]. It definitely be more beneficial to those teams to have a more compact schedule than having a long competitive game break. Any other or better ideas on ways of organizing the current K.O Provincials that are sandwiched between the League and Championship[s] that would go some way to eliminate the above mentioned long dormant mid season competitive game pause ?"]I think there are ways to do this. They'd be better without the League finals and if the All Ireland phase were straight knock-out and should still include div 3 and 4 teams. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4355 - 08/01/2025 11:21:46 2585010 Link 0 |