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Replying To GreenandRed: "There's no good solutions, some teams will do it and some teams won't. I think our standard of attacking is more to do with coaching and over-reluance on Ryan and Aidan. Everyone has their own idea what a good game should look like. I agree it's boring but we can't contrive to make every game of football all action for all of the game. It's very difficult to expect a ball kicked inside the 45 and only one handpass leading to a scoring chance within a small space. So don't reward over handpassing within the 45 unless their's progression, attacking intent. A backward handpass in there could be treated like a knock-on in rugby, turned over if ref blows. But also 3 handpasses, max, of progression, however they judge that, before a kick ,maybe a kind of use it or lose it rule. If there was a shot clock defenders can keep opponents out, try running down to the clock limit and force them into a shot they're not set for." All valid points but there's nothing more aggravating for me than seeing the ball in around the 20m line and then out at midfield again. I know that a shot clock would give the defense a bit of an advantage but it would also force teams to forget about ball possession and to attempt scores. I know for sure they need to stop the ball going back over the half way line
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 517 - 18/04/2025 15:10:30
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Replying To cluichethar: "What's your solution to stop teams from passing the ball back and forth along the big arc. The game is dying as a spectator sport. How many times have Mayo been in position to take a score only to cycle the ball out again. Yes defenders will only have to defend for a set period of time but as it stands now fans are bored to tears with all the back and forth. I don't know what you mean by a rushed shot players have plenty time to shoot they just refuse to instead they look for an easier attempt. As I started off with What's your solution to this back and forth" My solution:
IF YOU RECEIVE A HANDPASS YOU MUST KICK THE BALL.
What do you think?
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 335 - 19/04/2025 14:49:22
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Replying To Aibrean: "Some have asked 'what's wrong with the handpass'. Here is my answer:
• There is little or no skill involved: two normal 70 year olds could handpass the ball back and forth to each other.
• It contributes hugely to the sleep-inducing boring 'piggy-in-the-middle' stuff.
• It means that the game once called "football" is now 'handball".
• Many of the handpasses are illegal: supposed to be "a definite underhand striking action". Nowadays, we see 2-handed handpasses all the time, even the old scrum-half diving pass (Michael Murphy laid on a goal with such a pass in the league) is acceptable. And, of course, we see one-handed throws all the time.
• It gives a huge advantage to the team in possession as they can continue to play 'piggy-in-the-middle' while the other team runs around aimlessly after them.
• Further to the last point a fundamental issue with Gaelic Football is that there is no legitimate way to dispossess the player in possession which means that the team in possession has a huge advantage; this huge advantage is accentuated by the handpass.
• And, further again to the last point, because there is no legitimate way to dispossess, the game has evolved such that the player is possession can be battered (illegally) from all sides, and literally held, such that he can't move. For example, a player can be 'tackled' by 2 who put their arms around him such that he can't escape their clutches; why can't he escape i.e. run out between them? Obviously, very obviously, because he's being held; and, of course, it's a foul "To hold an opponent with the hand(s)".
• So, curtailing the handpass - such that the player in possession has to kick - would give the advantage back to the tackler. The tackler would not have to resort to battering/holding; he could concentrate on blocking down. Similarly, the player in possession would have more difficulty in successfully getting rid of the ball.
• Some say the handpass enables "attacking with pace". Surely, kick-passing enables attacking with even more pace? Anyway, what's to like about handpassing the ball the length of the field?
• And the solution:
IF YOU RECEIVE A HANDPASS YOU MUST KICK THE BALL.
What could be simpler? Even referees can count up to 1. (We know they have difficulty beyond 4)." I agree with a lot of this analysis, but my suggested solution is a lot different, & one that will not be universally popular:
Bring in the full contact tackle. If a player in possession is tackled, this results in a free to the tacklers team.
Smokeless Red (Carlow) - Posts: 31 - 19/04/2025 18:13:20
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Replying To Aibrean: "My solution:
IF YOU RECEIVE A HANDPASS YOU MUST KICK THE BALL.
What do you think?" Depends where you receive the handpass.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7910 - 19/04/2025 19:07:51
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GAA football doesn't have an offside rule because the sport's origins involved a reaction against the perceived limitations of English school football games, particularly the restrictive nature of offside rules. The GAA deliberately omitted the offside rule to create a simpler, more fluid game more suited to the environment and playing surfaces of the time.
The omission of an offside rule allowed for more freedom of movement and less restriction on player positioning,
The game was designed to be played on larger, more open fields common in Ireland, where an offside rule would have been less effective in its intended purpose.
By having no offside rule, it was hoped that teams would put forwards in the opposition penalty box. And to counter this the other team would have defenders in their penalty box as well. There would then be less people in the middle of the park and the game would mostly consist of punting the ball to the opposing penalty box in the hope one of your guys in there could scramble the ball in the goal. This was what GAA (and Aussie Rules) wanted and for may years (before the modern levels of fitness), this was the game we had as not many players could run up and down the field.
However, now that the modern player is basically a cross country runner (no Bomber Liston types allowed anymore), the game has evolved into something else, far from what they game was meant to be. UP to 2024, we have evolved into a situation where both defenses sit so deep that there's no chance of an attacker getting clean through, all players running up and down the field like cross country runners, with the the team that could run longer getting the edge and skillful kickers of the ball became obsolete.
What we all want is a kicking game, not a "carrying" game like rugby, with the ball moving predominantly back and forwards towards the goal posts, not side to side.
How do we get back to that ideal
1. The current new rules have gone someway towards that.
2. The other method requires a few "enhancements"
(a) is simply to remove handpassing from the game - the ball must be struck with the fist (no palmed goals, no handpassed points - only strikes with a closed fist to be permitted), if you hand pass the ball to another player, it must be punched, not thrown.
(b) fist passes to be forward only - no sideways, no backwards - just forwards - the opposite of rugby
To further encourage a "kick first" mentality I would enforce the following at underage:
1. Go Games - no solo allowed, fist pass to be followed by a kick.
2. U13-minor - one solo and one hop only - fist pass to be followed by a kick
Underage players will then have developed the skills needed to move the ball quickly by foot and will not have developed the desire to do long solo runs or retaining possession by handpassing.
An underage players default setting will be to pass to the man in space and to move it downfield by foot as quickly as possible. Also, inside forwards will know the ball is coming as soon as a turnover happens, thus allowing them to develop the kind of attacking skills (and runs) we all rave about.
Only after reaching 19, will a coach be allowed to try to coach a running game full of handpassing.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1304 - 22/04/2025 17:22:35
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Replying To Aibrean: "My solution:
IF YOU RECEIVE A HANDPASS YOU MUST KICK THE BALL.
What do you think?" That would stop the continuous hand pass passing but won't do anything to stop the merry go round of passing. Limiting the hand pass was tried before & didn't really work and I think that one hand pass and then a kick might cause chaos
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 517 - 22/04/2025 23:40:22
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Replying To Aibrean: "My solution:
IF YOU RECEIVE A HANDPASS YOU MUST KICK THE BALL.
What do you think?" I think the hand pass speeds up the game but 20 hand passes in a row is tedious. I really believe that not allowing the ball back over the half way line after it enters inside the 45 will force teams to attack more because defenders I think will push out trying to force a turnover.
Maybe I'm wrong, I would also outlaw the open hand slapped goal, half of them are thrown in
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 517 - 22/04/2025 23:44:59
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "GAA football doesn't have an offside rule because the sport's origins involved a reaction against the perceived limitations of English school football games, particularly the restrictive nature of offside rules. The GAA deliberately omitted the offside rule to create a simpler, more fluid game more suited to the environment and playing surfaces of the time.
The omission of an offside rule allowed for more freedom of movement and less restriction on player positioning,
The game was designed to be played on larger, more open fields common in Ireland, where an offside rule would have been less effective in its intended purpose.
By having no offside rule, it was hoped that teams would put forwards in the opposition penalty box. And to counter this the other team would have defenders in their penalty box as well. There would then be less people in the middle of the park and the game would mostly consist of punting the ball to the opposing penalty box in the hope one of your guys in there could scramble the ball in the goal. This was what GAA (and Aussie Rules) wanted and for may years (before the modern levels of fitness), this was the game we had as not many players could run up and down the field.
However, now that the modern player is basically a cross country runner (no Bomber Liston types allowed anymore), the game has evolved into something else, far from what they game was meant to be. UP to 2024, we have evolved into a situation where both defenses sit so deep that there's no chance of an attacker getting clean through, all players running up and down the field like cross country runners, with the the team that could run longer getting the edge and skillful kickers of the ball became obsolete.
What we all want is a kicking game, not a "carrying" game like rugby, with the ball moving predominantly back and forwards towards the goal posts, not side to side.
How do we get back to that ideal
1. The current new rules have gone someway towards that.
2. The other method requires a few "enhancements"
(a) is simply to remove handpassing from the game - the ball must be struck with the fist (no palmed goals, no handpassed points - only strikes with a closed fist to be permitted), if you hand pass the ball to another player, it must be punched, not thrown.
(b) fist passes to be forward only - no sideways, no backwards - just forwards - the opposite of rugby
To further encourage a "kick first" mentality I would enforce the following at underage:
1. Go Games - no solo allowed, fist pass to be followed by a kick.
2. U13-minor - one solo and one hop only - fist pass to be followed by a kick
Underage players will then have developed the skills needed to move the ball quickly by foot and will not have developed the desire to do long solo runs or retaining possession by handpassing.
An underage players default setting will be to pass to the man in space and to move it downfield by foot as quickly as possible. Also, inside forwards will know the ball is coming as soon as a turnover happens, thus allowing them to develop the kind of attacking skills (and runs) we all rave about.
Only after reaching 19, will a coach be allowed to try to coach a running game full of handpassing." Soloing the ball is as much a part of Gaelic Football as the ball is. It is a unique skill in our sport and stopping kids from practicing it at a young age g age will be detrimental to future games. Seeing a player soloing down the field is not a problem, I still remember Kevin Moran soloing down the field in 76 & scoring a great point.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 517 - 22/04/2025 23:57:26
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Replying To cluichethar: "Soloing the ball is as much a part of Gaelic Football as the ball is. It is a unique skill in our sport and stopping kids from practicing it at a young age g age will be detrimental to future games. Seeing a player soloing down the field is not a problem, I still remember Kevin Moran soloing down the field in 76 & scoring a great point." I didn't say to ban it, I saying it should be limited at underage level so players natural instincts are to kick it first.
Sean Lavin of Mayo invented the solo run - and Mayo lads still love a good solo run.
However, halfbacks soloing off up the field eating up the space in front of the inside forwards has cost Mayo many an All Ireland and is still a problem today.
In fact, IMO, the love of the solo run generally results in Mayo's best players playing at halfback (where you get most chance to solo the ball). The desire to kick first, results in Kerry's best players playing in the ff line as they know the ball will be kicked in to them. The Mayo forward knows that the lads out the field will solos around all day and only kick it when they have no other option.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1304 - 23/04/2025 09:39:42
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Replying To cluichethar: "Soloing the ball is as much a part of Gaelic Football as the ball is. It is a unique skill in our sport and stopping kids from practicing it at a young age g age will be detrimental to future games. Seeing a player soloing down the field is not a problem, I still remember Kevin Moran soloing down the field in 76 & scoring a great point." I think he actually kicked the ball wide after a long solo run… Nothing at all wrong with soloing but in a lot of cases players do it too much out the field with their heads down when an early release of the ball into the forward line would be far more effective and much more appreciated by the said forwards..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 23/04/2025 10:53:47
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Replying To cluichethar: "Soloing the ball is as much a part of Gaelic Football as the ball is. It is a unique skill in our sport and stopping kids from practicing it at a young age g age will be detrimental to future games. Seeing a player soloing down the field is not a problem, I still remember Kevin Moran soloing down the field in 76 & scoring a great point." I think he actually kicked the ball wide after a long solo run… Nothing at all wrong with soloing but in a lot of cases players do it too much out the field with their heads down when an early release of the ball into the forward line would be far more effective and much more appreciated by the said forwards..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 23/04/2025 10:54:05
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I think he actually kicked the ball wide after a long solo run… Nothing at all wrong with soloing but in a lot of cases players do it too much out the field with their heads down when an early release of the ball into the forward line would be far more effective and much more appreciated by the said forwards.." Did he not score in after a solo run in 76 into the Canal End? I remember in the 77 semi final he went on a great run but kicked it into the goalies arms. Maybe I'm getting too old for these memories.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 517 - 23/04/2025 13:35:08
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Replying To cluichethar: "Did he not score in after a solo run in 76 into the Canal End? I remember in the 77 semi final he went on a great run but kicked it into the goalies arms. Maybe I'm getting too old for these memories." It might be me but the solo they regularly show is the one of him heading towards the Hill end and he misses that one, but what a brilliant player Gaelic football or soccer….!!!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3729 - 23/04/2025 17:01:47
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Replying To cluichethar: "Did he not score in after a solo run in 76 into the Canal End? I remember in the 77 semi final he went on a great run but kicked it into the goalies arms. Maybe I'm getting too old for these memories." I recall he blasted that just wide.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8729 - 23/04/2025 20:17:27
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