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Replying To peiledoir20: "Still obsessing over me are you? Too cute.
Rent free." Xx
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8143 - 08/11/2024 11:18:37
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Replying To jm25: "Wow that triggered you take it easy.
People just told you he was winning poles and you called them Tucker Carlson.
I don't know what u said about Murphy that's why I was asking
I'll leave you to lick the wounds good lad." Have you seen the posters on here who talk about Trump. It isn't a reasoned argument. It's daft stuff.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8143 - 08/11/2024 11:19:36
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Replying To Breffni40: "With the greatest respect cavanman47, your outlook on this seems to all stem from your view that you yourself are the hardest working person of your generation. I mean I guess someone has to be, but that's highly subjective. Everyone else is not trying to get something for nothing. The housing market needs to be fair and transparent. It objectively is not." You're hardly giving me the "greatest of respect" when you take what I said completely out of context.
What I said was; of those I've been to primary, secondary and college with I don't know any who have worked harder though their 20s and into their 30s. That's about 100 people, not an entire generation.
The "I'm grand, pull the ladder up" reply suggests that I am coming from a position of snobbery on this issue. I can assure you I'm the complete opposite. In fact, when I pointed to a number of readily available and affordable properties for sale a couple of months back, it was you who called them "****holes". They were all streets ahead of the house i was raised in I can tell you.
This discussion has meandered on this issue, but it started with the argument being put to me that there is no prospect of upward social mobility in this country. The counter argument i am making is that my current situation is better than that my own parents faced at my age. And that wouldn't happen without upward social mobility.
As for the housing market being broken - again, it's a simple case of supply and demand. Asking prices would come down if people couldn't afford to pay - but clearly enough people can. No upward social mobility??
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5181 - 08/11/2024 12:10:05
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Replying To cavanman47: "Are the 2 most likely people to be Taoiseach after the election (Martin and Harris) not both the definition of career politicians?
Martin is a TD since the 1980s!
And Harris hasn't worked in any form of full time employment outside of politics." Michael Marrin is a good man, no doubts about that. But Fine Gael made a good move move getting Simon Harris in as leader. A confident young leader, not shy of of a photo opportunity which is important this day and age. Time will tell if he can walk the talk. Martin's time as leader is nearly over. Fianna Fáil might regret not changing him before this election. After their Midlands North West candidates debacle their decision making could be questioned.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7642 - 08/11/2024 12:22:19
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Replying To cavanman47: "You're hardly giving me the "greatest of respect" when you take what I said completely out of context.
What I said was; of those I've been to primary, secondary and college with I don't know any who have worked harder though their 20s and into their 30s. That's about 100 people, not an entire generation.
The "I'm grand, pull the ladder up" reply suggests that I am coming from a position of snobbery on this issue. I can assure you I'm the complete opposite. In fact, when I pointed to a number of readily available and affordable properties for sale a couple of months back, it was you who called them "****holes". They were all streets ahead of the house i was raised in I can tell you.
This discussion has meandered on this issue, but it started with the argument being put to me that there is no prospect of upward social mobility in this country. The counter argument i am making is that my current situation is better than that my own parents faced at my age. And that wouldn't happen without upward social mobility.
As for the housing market being broken - again, it's a simple case of supply and demand. Asking prices would come down if people couldn't afford to pay - but clearly enough people can. No upward social mobility??" The pull the ladder up bit was aimed at those you referenced who will continue to vote for the status quo as it suits them and them only.
I personally don't think market forces should be deciding factor in owning a home. To put it mildly. A person/family should be able to buy a home where they and possibly multiple generations of their family were reared, on a reasonable income. Banks/interest rates/vulture funds/landlords should not feature in the conversation
I didn't I call them "****holes", "relative ****holes" I think. Big difference. The multiple houses I was raised in weren't exactly palatial either, but that's neither here nor there cos they were homes and no-one had to sign their life away to bailed out banks, crooked developers or hard-working, honest slumlords to set foot in them.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12193 - 08/11/2024 12:45:24
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Biggest problem facing this country is housing - housing is a major issue and for michael martin to say there isn't a problem is just mind boggling.
cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1685 - 08/11/2024 13:18:26
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Replying To cavanman47: "You're hardly giving me the "greatest of respect" when you take what I said completely out of context.
What I said was; of those I've been to primary, secondary and college with I don't know any who have worked harder though their 20s and into their 30s. That's about 100 people, not an entire generation.
The "I'm grand, pull the ladder up" reply suggests that I am coming from a position of snobbery on this issue. I can assure you I'm the complete opposite. In fact, when I pointed to a number of readily available and affordable properties for sale a couple of months back, it was you who called them "****holes". They were all streets ahead of the house i was raised in I can tell you.
This discussion has meandered on this issue, but it started with the argument being put to me that there is no prospect of upward social mobility in this country. The counter argument i am making is that my current situation is better than that my own parents faced at my age. And that wouldn't happen without upward social mobility.
As for the housing market being broken - again, it's a simple case of supply and demand. Asking prices would come down if people couldn't afford to pay - but clearly enough people can. No upward social mobility??" That last paragraph starts with a fact, from which you draw the strangest conclusion. Supply of affordable housing is the big problem. Affordable houses deliver the least profit to a builder. Ask any builder. That's why we need State intervention. Builders aren't charity organisations, they want to maximise profits.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 08/11/2024 13:47:25
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Replying To Breffni40: "The pull the ladder up bit was aimed at those you referenced who will continue to vote for the status quo as it suits them and them only.
I personally don't think market forces should be deciding factor in owning a home. To put it mildly. A person/family should be able to buy a home where they and possibly multiple generations of their family were reared, on a reasonable income. Banks/interest rates/vulture funds/landlords should not feature in the conversation
I didn't I call them "****holes", "relative ****holes" I think. Big difference. The multiple houses I was raised in weren't exactly palatial either, but that's neither here nor there cos they were homes and no-one had to sign their life away to bailed out banks, crooked developers or hard-working, honest slumlords to set foot in them." Sorry, I had to go back and check (not easy) and the term you used was 'relative squalor'. So apologies for mis-quoting you, but my point stands. And that was in response to me giving an example of the options available to someone in a worst-case scenario situation in this country (above the housing list treshold).
Options are there for anyone willing to cut their cloth to suit IMO. I do take issue with those who aren't willing to either do that, or take necessary action to improve their own lot. Because the opportunities are there to do so.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5181 - 08/11/2024 14:01:17
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Replying To cavanman47: "Sorry, I had to go back and check (not easy) and the term you used was 'relative squalor'. So apologies for mis-quoting you, but my point stands. And that was in response to me giving an example of the options available to someone in a worst-case scenario situation in this country (above the housing list treshold).
Options are there for anyone willing to cut their cloth to suit IMO. I do take issue with those who aren't willing to either do that, or take necessary action to improve their own lot. Because the opportunities are there to do so." The opportunity is basically to emigrate. Maybe never come back or save somewhere else where it's feasible to rent and save and come back to get ripped off. This isn't good enough and should not be necessary and no amount of greed-encouraging statistics will change my mind on that
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12193 - 08/11/2024 14:18:20
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Replying To cavanman47: "You're hardly giving me the "greatest of respect" when you take what I said completely out of context.
What I said was; of those I've been to primary, secondary and college with I don't know any who have worked harder though their 20s and into their 30s. That's about 100 people, not an entire generation.
The "I'm grand, pull the ladder up" reply suggests that I am coming from a position of snobbery on this issue. I can assure you I'm the complete opposite. In fact, when I pointed to a number of readily available and affordable properties for sale a couple of months back, it was you who called them "****holes". They were all streets ahead of the house i was raised in I can tell you.
This discussion has meandered on this issue, but it started with the argument being put to me that there is no prospect of upward social mobility in this country. The counter argument i am making is that my current situation is better than that my own parents faced at my age. And that wouldn't happen without upward social mobility.
As for the housing market being broken - again, it's a simple case of supply and demand. Asking prices would come down if people couldn't afford to pay - but clearly enough people can. No upward social mobility??" I know you stopped replying to me days ago but there's a key point that separates our views.
CSO figures are grand although carefully selected but the real question is why and who.
Why are people waiting until 31.5 to start a family. Is it because that's the earliest they can afford it?
Who's buying the houses? There's an influence of generational wealth that is totally overlooked. I.e. the amount of people handed land or cash gifts for deposit. It's a false economy.
My original point was that we have to increase supply quickly to better regulate pricing. That will never happen because there are too many conflicts of interest in the dail, hence no political will to do it.
Young families trapped in private rental in a market that doesn't work. It's a license to print money at the moment.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3131 - 08/11/2024 14:20:54
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Replying To cavanman47: "Sorry, I had to go back and check (not easy) and the term you used was 'relative squalor'. So apologies for mis-quoting you, but my point stands. And that was in response to me giving an example of the options available to someone in a worst-case scenario situation in this country (above the housing list treshold).
Options are there for anyone willing to cut their cloth to suit IMO. I do take issue with those who aren't willing to either do that, or take necessary action to improve their own lot. Because the opportunities are there to do so." Indeed personal responsibility is important but people are hopeless.
Owning a home can be difficult. That's ok. Anything worth having requires work.
However we're now teetering on the edge of unachievable for a significant proportion of our youth.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3131 - 08/11/2024 14:23:02
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Replying To Viking66: "That last paragraph starts with a fact, from which you draw the strangest conclusion. Supply of affordable housing is the big problem. Affordable houses deliver the least profit to a builder. Ask any builder. That's why we need State intervention. Builders aren't charity organisations, they want to maximise profits." That's the nail on the head.
We left the housing market to private companies to solve and are now reaping the rewards.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3131 - 08/11/2024 14:24:21
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Michael Marrin is a good man, no doubts about that. But Fine Gael made a good move move getting Simon Harris in as leader. A confident young leader, not shy of of a photo opportunity which is important this day and age. Time will tell if he can walk the talk. Martin's time as leader is nearly over. Fianna Fáil might regret not changing him before this election. After their Midlands North West candidates debacle their decision making could be questioned." Lovely fella, but him and his lovely colleagues bankrupted the country and far from face any consequences, continue to benefit greatly from what they created at the expense of those that suffered.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12193 - 08/11/2024 14:58:18
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I know you stopped replying to me days ago but there's a key point that separates our views.
CSO figures are grand although carefully selected but the real question is why and who.
Why are people waiting until 31.5 to start a family. Is it because that's the earliest they can afford it?
Who's buying the houses? There's an influence of generational wealth that is totally overlooked. I.e. the amount of people handed land or cash gifts for deposit. It's a false economy.
My original point was that we have to increase supply quickly to better regulate pricing. That will never happen because there are too many conflicts of interest in the dail, hence no political will to do it.
Young families trapped in private rental in a market that doesn't work. It's a license to print money at the moment." Sorry, I'm replying to a few posters and not all my posts are getting posted (not idea why - a lot more crazy makes it's way on here!)
Anyway, I believe mothers are having children later now than they were before for good reasons - i.e. because they now have the opportunity to pursue a career, and are not being married off straight out of school and expected to become stay-at-home baby machines that our Catholic church dominated society expected of them in 20th century Ireland.
I will take your point on the private rental market. And I think the government (and opposition) are missing an open goal on that one. . .
Someone posted on here saying rental income should be taxed at 90%. Landlords are seen as the anti-christ by many. And that's the wrong outlook to have (I'm not a landlord btw). We need a rental market. I studied and worked in Dublin for over a decade but had no intention of ever buying a home there. I needed somewhere to rent. Many many people do.
The carrot is invariably more preferable than the stick and there's a (somewhat longwinded but practical) solution staring government in the face, one that would greatly benefit both the renter and the landlord. . .
It's essentially rental bands based on house type and location combined with tax breaks for those that adhere to these bands.
Simple example: I could rent out a 3 bed house in Phibsboro for €3000 a month in the current market and pay 50% tax on it (less breaks for mortgage interest etc.) and take home say 1000 in profit.
OR. . .the government could set a max rental value of €1500 on the same property and charge me a flat 15% tax on it. The tenant pays half the current rate and I take home €1275 a month. Win-win. (If I charge a penny over the 1500 I pay full tax)
Look, that's a blunt example that needs expanding on and would need to be applied country-wide. But some of the heavy lifting in that area is done with the local property tax register already categorising houses by area and size.
It would allow people save deposits far more easily and move renters into home ownership without pulling the rug out from under current homeowners by over-saturating housing quantity as we did in the 00s.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5181 - 08/11/2024 15:07:08
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Replying To cavanman47: "Sorry, I'm replying to a few posters and not all my posts are getting posted (not idea why - a lot more crazy makes it's way on here!)
Anyway, I believe mothers are having children later now than they were before for good reasons - i.e. because they now have the opportunity to pursue a career, and are not being married off straight out of school and expected to become stay-at-home baby machines that our Catholic church dominated society expected of them in 20th century Ireland.
I will take your point on the private rental market. And I think the government (and opposition) are missing an open goal on that one. . .
Someone posted on here saying rental income should be taxed at 90%. Landlords are seen as the anti-christ by many. And that's the wrong outlook to have (I'm not a landlord btw). We need a rental market. I studied and worked in Dublin for over a decade but had no intention of ever buying a home there. I needed somewhere to rent. Many many people do.
The carrot is invariably more preferable than the stick and there's a (somewhat longwinded but practical) solution staring government in the face, one that would greatly benefit both the renter and the landlord. . .
It's essentially rental bands based on house type and location combined with tax breaks for those that adhere to these bands.
Simple example: I could rent out a 3 bed house in Phibsboro for €3000 a month in the current market and pay 50% tax on it (less breaks for mortgage interest etc.) and take home say 1000 in profit.
OR. . .the government could set a max rental value of €1500 on the same property and charge me a flat 15% tax on it. The tenant pays half the current rate and I take home €1275 a month. Win-win. (If I charge a penny over the 1500 I pay full tax)
Look, that's a blunt example that needs expanding on and would need to be applied country-wide. But some of the heavy lifting in that area is done with the local property tax register already categorising houses by area and size.
It would allow people save deposits far more easily and move renters into home ownership without pulling the rug out from under current homeowners by over-saturating housing quantity as we did in the 00s." Spotted a glaring error in my figures there (i did say it needs expanding!).
Change the cap to 2000 and remove any current tax deductions allowable on rental income and the poi t still stands.
(Funmy the admins let that one straight thru!)
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5181 - 08/11/2024 15:19:59
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Xx" Mad I still have you rattled despite not even posting here.
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1030 - 08/11/2024 15:39:26
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Replying To cavanman47: "Sorry, I'm replying to a few posters and not all my posts are getting posted (not idea why - a lot more crazy makes it's way on here!)
Anyway, I believe mothers are having children later now than they were before for good reasons - i.e. because they now have the opportunity to pursue a career, and are not being married off straight out of school and expected to become stay-at-home baby machines that our Catholic church dominated society expected of them in 20th century Ireland.
I will take your point on the private rental market. And I think the government (and opposition) are missing an open goal on that one. . .
Someone posted on here saying rental income should be taxed at 90%. Landlords are seen as the anti-christ by many. And that's the wrong outlook to have (I'm not a landlord btw). We need a rental market. I studied and worked in Dublin for over a decade but had no intention of ever buying a home there. I needed somewhere to rent. Many many people do.
The carrot is invariably more preferable than the stick and there's a (somewhat longwinded but practical) solution staring government in the face, one that would greatly benefit both the renter and the landlord. . .
It's essentially rental bands based on house type and location combined with tax breaks for those that adhere to these bands.
Simple example: I could rent out a 3 bed house in Phibsboro for €3000 a month in the current market and pay 50% tax on it (less breaks for mortgage interest etc.) and take home say 1000 in profit.
OR. . .the government could set a max rental value of €1500 on the same property and charge me a flat 15% tax on it. The tenant pays half the current rate and I take home €1275 a month. Win-win. (If I charge a penny over the 1500 I pay full tax)
Look, that's a blunt example that needs expanding on and would need to be applied country-wide. But some of the heavy lifting in that area is done with the local property tax register already categorising houses by area and size.
It would allow people save deposits far more easily and move renters into home ownership without pulling the rug out from under current homeowners by over-saturating housing quantity as we did in the 00s." Prices didn't fall in the 00s until the bubble burst. The Celtic Tiger years were built on personal debt rising exponentially. House prices didn't fall because there were too many houses, they fell because the banks overheated and couldn't lend people money to buy them any more. So all of a sudden demand plummeted.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13783 - 08/11/2024 16:08:37
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "If your figures are correct, it is surprising to see that of the ten towns you mention, four of them are all in one relatively small county: Longford.
Is that fair?
1/ 26 counties = 3.85%
4/10 towns = 40%
It would be interesting to see the %'s for each county based on their population.
Fully aware that many immigrants are doing great work all over the country" To answer your first question the answer is a definite No.
I'm not making an arguement out of the figures I'm just a little surprised they are being made available on the cusp of a general election.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3045 - 08/11/2024 17:03:48
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Replying To peiledoir20: "Mad I still have you rattled despite not even posting here." We weren't referring to you. So you have jumped on here to post on something you weren't even involved in. Lol lol lol.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8143 - 08/11/2024 17:50:57
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Replying To Breffni40: "Lovely fella, but him and his lovely colleagues bankrupted the country and far from face any consequences, continue to benefit greatly from what they created at the expense of those that suffered." In fairness to FF the whole banking system from the collapse of Lehman brothers caused the financial crisis, it wasn't all FF's fault what happened in this country. The banks lied to us too.
From when we joined the euro and the cheap money flooded the place the whole thing went crazy, whoever was in Gov would have been caught the same, weren't FG complaining at the 07 budget that FF weren't spending enough into an overheated economy?
Some people who know more than me about these things tell me we could be heading for another bit of a financial crash, hope not.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3022 - 08/11/2024 17:58:01
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