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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If you want to see how this unchecked illegal economic migration is going to end up just look across the water at our friends in England and see how their cities and towns are now.
Anyone who speaks up against it is a far right racist, if that's the case then I'd guess that the vast majority of the people fall into that category.
I have nothing against legal migration and genuine asylum seekers, anyone who can't se what's going on is either naive or willfully blind." You tell em Donald.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8099 - 01/11/2024 23:08:08
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Replying To TheFlaker: "You tell em Donald." He's no Donald , Flaker. There's nothing extreme or unreasonable in what he's saying.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2300 - 02/11/2024 07:11:57
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Replying To Doylerwex: "The big difference now is what were once "middle class" can't access housing. Teachers, nurses, guards etc.
There is a fast answer to supply. It's rezoning of land, cpos and modular housing but there's no political will to do it.
Step 1 is increased social housing to get those trapped in private rentals out of it.
Once that happens, being a private landlord will no longer be a license to print money, and these properties will enter the market for sale, thus decreasing competition and lowering prices. Problem solved.
To be fair a tactical approach to migration is necessary to meet the needs of the above. We do need more tradespeople.
A few years back they offered relocation grants for Irish nurses returning home. We need to do the same for tradespeople.
The HSE should probably have considerable stock of housing too. A big part of the staffing issues stems from the same problem.
I guarantee you any perceived racism will disappear if this problem is solved. We are by default a good natured people, but it's very easy to present a narrative of somebody to blame to vulnerable people. Give them security and they won't swallow that narrative.
We also need to declare a state of emergency to temporarily suspend the planning objection process and keep busy bodies out of it.
Lastly, a measured review of the current housing stock and occupants of same. The number of retired couples in four bedroom homes is deplorable. The states owns those homes. They need to decide what's appropriate.
Children are our future, we can't leave them in hotels.
I'd actually go as far as to say we need to solve the housing crisis to support future labour and pension needs. People are later and later having fewer kids because it's not economically viable." "The number of retired couples in four bedroom homes is deplorable. The states owns those homes."
What!! Are you proposing sequestering people's homes? Crazy.
CollineDiFerro (Cavan) - Posts: 6 - 02/11/2024 20:05:14
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Replying To Doylerwex: "The big difference now is what were once "middle class" can't access housing. Teachers, nurses, guards etc.
There is a fast answer to supply. It's rezoning of land, cpos and modular housing but there's no political will to do it.
Step 1 is increased social housing to get those trapped in private rentals out of it.
Once that happens, being a private landlord will no longer be a license to print money, and these properties will enter the market for sale, thus decreasing competition and lowering prices. Problem solved.
To be fair a tactical approach to migration is necessary to meet the needs of the above. We do need more tradespeople.
A few years back they offered relocation grants for Irish nurses returning home. We need to do the same for tradespeople.
The HSE should probably have considerable stock of housing too. A big part of the staffing issues stems from the same problem.
I guarantee you any perceived racism will disappear if this problem is solved. We are by default a good natured people, but it's very easy to present a narrative of somebody to blame to vulnerable people. Give them security and they won't swallow that narrative.
We also need to declare a state of emergency to temporarily suspend the planning objection process and keep busy bodies out of it.
Lastly, a measured review of the current housing stock and occupants of same. The number of retired couples in four bedroom homes is deplorable. The states owns those homes. They need to decide what's appropriate.
Children are our future, we can't leave them in hotels.
I'd actually go as far as to say we need to solve the housing crisis to support future labour and pension needs. People are later and later having fewer kids because it's not economically viable." It's time for you to wake up and smell the roses now. There is no "fast fix" to the housing problem - full stop. Successive governments took their eye off the ball for years through financial collapses etc and left us with a housing shortage. Many of our skilled workers emigrated. Many went back home - to Poland and other places. Do some research on "modular" homes and not what is spouted on social media. We don't have the construction workers to dramatically increase finished product. And I know what I am talking about with over 50yrs in the construction industry. Your post is patronising and condescending in parts and off the wall. A certain party is espousing this view on housing with no grounding in the real world. Houses can't be rolled off a conveyor belt. Even if this party can magic this process up, we don't have the manpower to erect them, or the serviced land to erect them on, or the roads schools etc in the areas they are supposed to be built. You can't train workers - hand picked by your idea from the immigrant community - in a few weeks to deliver homes. It can't be done. There are measures that could be taken to help speed up production but this would take years. So, dream on.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 02/11/2024 20:55:46
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Replying To Freethinker: "It's time for you to wake up and smell the roses now. There is no "fast fix" to the housing problem - full stop. Successive governments took their eye off the ball for years through financial collapses etc and left us with a housing shortage. Many of our skilled workers emigrated. Many went back home - to Poland and other places. Do some research on "modular" homes and not what is spouted on social media. We don't have the construction workers to dramatically increase finished product. And I know what I am talking about with over 50yrs in the construction industry. Your post is patronising and condescending in parts and off the wall. A certain party is espousing this view on housing with no grounding in the real world. Houses can't be rolled off a conveyor belt. Even if this party can magic this process up, we don't have the manpower to erect them, or the serviced land to erect them on, or the roads schools etc in the areas they are supposed to be built. You can't train workers - hand picked by your idea from the immigrant community - in a few weeks to deliver homes. It can't be done. There are measures that could be taken to help speed up production but this would take years. So, dream on." Are you familiar with Levitt town? A finished home every 5 days.
There's a much better way to do this than traditional construction methods.
The availability of trades people is a problem I'll admit, but to say it's an insurmountable one is just towing the party line.
A disappointing attitude to say the least.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 02/11/2024 22:23:29
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Replying To CollineDiFerro: ""The number of retired couples in four bedroom homes is deplorable. The states owns those homes."
What!! Are you proposing sequestering people's homes? Crazy." They're state owned homes that are in excess of the needs of the people that occupy them. We're in a crisis, this is a part of the solution.
I'd rather coax a retired couple into an apartment than have school going children in a hotel room.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 02/11/2024 22:26:34
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Replying To Doylerwex: "They're state owned homes that are in excess of the needs of the people that occupy them. We're in a crisis, this is a part of the solution.
I'd rather coax a retired couple into an apartment than have school going children in a hotel room." What do you mean that they are state owned homes. Are we in the communist Soviet Union?
CollineDiFerro (Cavan) - Posts: 6 - 02/11/2024 22:44:53
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Are you familiar with Levitt town? A finished home every 5 days.
There's a much better way to do this than traditional construction methods.
The availability of trades people is a problem I'll admit, but to say it's an insurmountable one is just towing the party line.
A disappointing attitude to say the least." Levitt Town ?? Are you for real ?? And what is this about the state owning older peoples 4 bed homes ?? What planet are you living on ? I don't think local authorities built many 4 bed houses and if they did, the tenants would have "bought them out" many moons ago. The state to move in and remove them, take over the houses - this wouldn't happen anywhere in the world. I think you should stick to Gaelic games, which is one field where at least you know what you are talking about.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 02/11/2024 22:56:53
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Replying To Freethinker: "Levitt Town ?? Are you for real ?? And what is this about the state owning older peoples 4 bed homes ?? What planet are you living on ? I don't think local authorities built many 4 bed houses and if they did, the tenants would have "bought them out" many moons ago. The state to move in and remove them, take over the houses - this wouldn't happen anywhere in the world. I think you should stick to Gaelic games, which is one field where at least you know what you are talking about." Are you a builder?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13662 - 03/11/2024 00:24:32
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Christ lads, this housing 'crisis' will actually become a crisis if it's talked about any more!
We've plenty of houses waiting to be bought and moved into. Just look at the property websites - they're awash with property for sale in every single county.
Can everyone live in Dublin city? No, of course not. Like any prosperous capital city, the demand is high. (And Ireland is one of the most prosperous countries on earth).
The allergy to the commute and to public transport is a serious hindrance that people in this country need to overcome. I'll admit, it's the scourge of my own generation (though I'd consider myself an exception in that regard) but we simply are not willing to put in the hard yards our parents did.
To just be born in Ireland we are amongst the top 2% of those living on this planet and with free education laid at our feet, there really is no excuse. . .but one doesn't have to look far to see those excuses branded around like they're hard facts.
Government policy has provided every citizen of this country with an open-goal opportunity to make a proper go of things. Those that have not or are not doing so need to take a long hard look in the mirror. And nowhere else.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5149 - 03/11/2024 02:46:43
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Replying To CollineDiFerro: "What do you mean that they are state owned homes. Are we in the communist Soviet Union?" I'm talking about council properties. I'm not suggesting sending the army to turf them out. I'm suggesting a discussion take place about the current housing stock and whether or not we're making the best use of it.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 03/11/2024 09:04:56
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Replying To CollineDiFerro: "What do you mean that they are state owned homes. Are we in the communist Soviet Union?" Council houses are provided by the State aka the taxpayers.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1918 - 03/11/2024 09:06:48
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Replying To Viking66: "Are you a builder?" Why is that relevant ?? While the answer now is no, I have done just about everything on sites since I started on them aged 15, including lighting the fire to boil the kettle - which might give you an idea of my age. So let's say I would know a thing or two about all aspects of building. And, before someone rushes in, I am now living off the OAP , paid for by my contributions over the many years. You can Google that plan referred to for the fast builds in the states. The early ones were more like glorified Nissan huts. For some reason, the plan took off for two or three areas, but never took hold in any major way, which begs the question why. The original plan was for mostly to house returning soldiers and, oh yes, coincidentally or otherwise, only whites or Caucasians need apply.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 03/11/2024 09:07:21
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Replying To Freethinker: "Levitt Town ?? Are you for real ?? And what is this about the state owning older peoples 4 bed homes ?? What planet are you living on ? I don't think local authorities built many 4 bed houses and if they did, the tenants would have "bought them out" many moons ago. The state to move in and remove them, take over the houses - this wouldn't happen anywhere in the world. I think you should stick to Gaelic games, which is one field where at least you know what you are talking about." Yes I'm for real. I lived in a modular home for 7 years. It was delivered on the back of a truck and constructed in 5 days.
The homes I'm referring to were constructed as 3 beds from the 1950s on. Many of them had a downstairs bedroom constructed later at the rear. There's thousands of those still in state ownership and the data is readily available.
It's unlikely we'll find common ground on this topic so I suppose we'll leave it there.
So according to you there's no solution other than to keep doing the same thing with the same resources and methods and wait for the crisis to solve itself.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 03/11/2024 09:10:36
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Just had a quick look at homes for sale within commuting distance of our capital, for under 200k.
Found 44 on sale right now when looking at just 4 towns (Navan, Drogheda, Athy, Dundalk). Push the search criteria up to 250k and that number doubles.
If i look in a month's time, there'll be a bunch more just like them. .as there has been every time I've looked for the past number of months.
We can't all live in Dublin city and the sooner people realise that, the sooner this housing 'crisis' simply goes away.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5149 - 03/11/2024 10:52:39
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Replying To cavanman47: "Christ lads, this housing 'crisis' will actually become a crisis if it's talked about any more!
We've plenty of houses waiting to be bought and moved into. Just look at the property websites - they're awash with property for sale in every single county.
Can everyone live in Dublin city? No, of course not. Like any prosperous capital city, the demand is high. (And Ireland is one of the most prosperous countries on earth).
The allergy to the commute and to public transport is a serious hindrance that people in this country need to overcome. I'll admit, it's the scourge of my own generation (though I'd consider myself an exception in that regard) but we simply are not willing to put in the hard yards our parents did.
To just be born in Ireland we are amongst the top 2% of those living on this planet and with free education laid at our feet, there really is no excuse. . .but one doesn't have to look far to see those excuses branded around like they're hard facts.
Government policy has provided every citizen of this country with an open-goal opportunity to make a proper go of things. Those that have not or are not doing so need to take a long hard look in the mirror. And nowhere else." That's an incredibly naive view.
Do you think we have equality of opportunity here?
I do agree that personal responsibility is incredibly important, but in the 1980s the average house price was 184.5 times the average weekly income. That ratio is now 390 times.
We've the most educated workforce we ever had and a majority of them are completely locked out of home ownership. These are cold hard facts.
Two working professionals are now worse off than their parents were on a single factory wage.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 03/11/2024 11:26:30
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90% of population growth is made up of immigrants. Therefore 90%of housing demand is made up of immigrants looking for housing.
And there are people here who think the solution is to take Irish people's homes from them and force them to downsize!
In what universe is this even approaching sanity?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3073 - 03/11/2024 12:01:19
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Replying To Doylerwex: "That's an incredibly naive view.
Do you think we have equality of opportunity here?
I do agree that personal responsibility is incredibly important, but in the 1980s the average house price was 184.5 times the average weekly income. That ratio is now 390 times.
We've the most educated workforce we ever had and a majority of them are completely locked out of home ownership. These are cold hard facts.
Two working professionals are now worse off than their parents were on a single factory wage." We have just about an equal opportunity society than any nation on earth, yes I do think so.
The 'average' house price. . . Kind of proves my point. Take the price and quantity of houses in Dublin out of the mix and watch that ratio tumble.
As I said; it is possible to work in Dublin, on Dublin wages, and live in another county where housing is mich more affordable. There is a flat out refusal to do this by the majority of those my age or younger (I'm in my mid 30s).
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5149 - 03/11/2024 12:54:15
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "90% of population growth is made up of immigrants. Therefore 90%of housing demand is made up of immigrants looking for housing.
And there are people here who think the solution is to take Irish people's homes from them and force them to downsize!
In what universe is this even approaching sanity?" Well that's that sorted so. . . 90% of housing demand is made up of immigrants so it's not a problem for 'real irish' people, is it?
Do you stop and think before writing this stuff??
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5149 - 03/11/2024 12:55:31
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Replying To cavanman47: "Well that's that sorted so. . . 90% of housing demand is made up of immigrants so it's not a problem for 'real irish' people, is it?
Do you stop and think before writing this stuff??" There is nothing much to think about. I made statements of fact.
If you think that the future of the state ought to be 90% driven by the needs of immigrants and their corporate employers, then fine. Don't pretend that it is not going to make this country unrecognisable within two generations.
I doubt there are too many countries in the world that take such a dim view of themselves. We are an odd people.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3073 - 03/11/2024 13:13:52
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