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Replying To updwell: "I don't often agree with you killingfields but on this I do. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. Hard to believe there are 40 million people of Irish descent living in the US and tens of thousands of Irish born people there and 'patriots' here have no understanding or empathy of what it is to be an outsider in a foreign land and trying to get by. The brave men and women here protesting against and burning down buildings is KKK standard intimidation, hatred and bigotry. There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants. Local people in my area that have left had good jobs but they just want the good weather and a change for a few years and weren't driven out by 'planters'. This far right fascist rhetoric offers us nothing only division, unrest and like 100 years ago war where the fascist were defeated but the people who lived through those times are all dead now and society has forgotten how evil and fruitless it all was." It's worth remembering that the world is at war and it appears to be gaining momentum, the ongoing war is directly responsible for migration, emigration and immigration, then of course we have the Economic migrant as well. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. That statement is very unfair and unwarranted to suggest all Irish men and women here have whipped up a hatred towards migrants and refugees in this country.
There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues, ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants.
Of course there were housing, hospital waiting lists, social issues etc, etc, but not on the same scale then, as compared to today, not by a long shot, the shortage of housing and hospital beds is unprecedented never before experienced or seen in this country, the hospital waiting lists and the shortage of beds can at times be immoral and unforgiveable but we take it on the chin do we not.
I only ask one question, at what stage of the current house building revolution will it slow down or stop, if it doesn't will our supporting services like, water, sewage, power supply's, schools, hospitals, security, green belts or play areas, appropriate infrastructure, and all the other stuff that goes with it be able to support the housing program.
For as long as this housing program and the influx of migrants continues I have no problem with that so long as both are metered and programmed fairly and our own natives are not to be seen losing out or taking an unnecessary hit, that's not much to ask for continued cooperation.
For what it's worth I do think Irish people will become a minority here.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3027 - 31/10/2024 20:35:44
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Replying To KillingFields: "Centrists are moderates. Who generally aupport moderate political change instead of more extreme change like many on left or right side of the political spectrum want.
All too often more right or left wing parties will have populist views and centrists parties will be more liberal on certain issues particularly social issues
To simply say centrists are those who sit on the fence misses the point completely." But I did say, The unofficial definition of a "centrist" is one who sits on the fence.
That is because I don't always agree with the official definition, can be a bit iffy.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3027 - 31/10/2024 20:41:55
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I agree with you that it's the government's fault that so many Irish people are homeless but can you not see why so many people are so worked up about the government doing all they can to accommodate asylum seekers yet are turning a blind eye to the problems their own citizens are in…. this is what angers people the most…. And comparing this to Irish people going to America and elsewhere many years ago is just wrong and belittles them as those people went and worked like dogs to support their families there and at home while most of what we have arriving here are doing nothing but getting hand outs… It's just totally unsustainable to keep letting these people arrive here with no where to stay and not allowed to work ….. Rodric O Gorman .. nil points..!" Problem now is your branded a right wing racist if you voice any concerns which is proven by the comments here. Personally I've no problem with legal immigration and our country has benefited from it.
However dropping hundreds of refugees into a small town with little or no services, a chronic waiting list to see a gp as a prime example has made a lot of people angry. When you see them then driving good cars and zooming around the town in scoters while your stuck in traffic coming home from a hard days work your thinking to yourself what the hell is going on here….
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11390 - 31/10/2024 20:44:32
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I agree with you that it's the government's fault that so many Irish people are homeless but can you not see why so many people are so worked up about the government doing all they can to accommodate asylum seekers yet are turning a blind eye to the problems their own citizens are in…. this is what angers people the most…. And comparing this to Irish people going to America and elsewhere many years ago is just wrong and belittles them as those people went and worked like dogs to support their families there and at home while most of what we have arriving here are doing nothing but getting hand outs… It's just totally unsustainable to keep letting these people arrive here with no where to stay and not allowed to work ….. Rodric O Gorman .. nil points..!" Well said.
In addition there's no high court cases or eu or ngo saying that the Irish government isn't doing enough to make sure 30 yo Irish people can buy their family home.
systematic (Galway) - Posts: 118 - 31/10/2024 20:56:25
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I agree with you that it's the government's fault that so many Irish people are homeless but can you not see why so many people are so worked up about the government doing all they can to accommodate asylum seekers yet are turning a blind eye to the problems their own citizens are in…. this is what angers people the most…. And comparing this to Irish people going to America and elsewhere many years ago is just wrong and belittles them as those people went and worked like dogs to support their families there and at home while most of what we have arriving here are doing nothing but getting hand outs… It's just totally unsustainable to keep letting these people arrive here with no where to stay and not allowed to work ….. Rodric O Gorman .. nil points..!" Do you not realise that they are not allowed work until such time as they are processed something that can take years in some cases
minor77 (Galway) - Posts: 238 - 31/10/2024 21:00:42
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Replying To supersub15: "It's worth remembering that the world is at war and it appears to be gaining momentum, the ongoing war is directly responsible for migration, emigration and immigration, then of course we have the Economic migrant as well. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. That statement is very unfair and unwarranted to suggest all Irish men and women here have whipped up a hatred towards migrants and refugees in this country.
There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues, ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants.
Of course there were housing, hospital waiting lists, social issues etc, etc, but not on the same scale then, as compared to today, not by a long shot, the shortage of housing and hospital beds is unprecedented never before experienced or seen in this country, the hospital waiting lists and the shortage of beds can at times be immoral and unforgiveable but we take it on the chin do we not.
I only ask one question, at what stage of the current house building revolution will it slow down or stop, if it doesn't will our supporting services like, water, sewage, power supply's, schools, hospitals, security, green belts or play areas, appropriate infrastructure, and all the other stuff that goes with it be able to support the housing program.
For as long as this housing program and the influx of migrants continues I have no problem with that so long as both are metered and programmed fairly and our own natives are not to be seen losing out or taking an unnecessary hit, that's not much to ask for continued cooperation.
For what it's worth I do think Irish people will become a minority here." There certainly is Irish men and women whipping up hatred towards migrants, you can see it on social media every weekend false patriots waving tricolour outside refugee centres.
The health system has been creaking here for the last 30 years so blaming a migrant because you can't get a GP appointment or your on a waiting list has a lot more to do with successive governments closing down regional hospitals and ED's.
Just think about it a refugee must be in a pretty bad situation to come over here to sleep in a tent in Dublin and see this as an improvement in their circumstances. We all agree here that the housing situation is dire and here we have thousands of men not allowed to work who could be carpenters, block layers, plasterers, plumbers etc., why not give these people asylum straight away if they can prove on a trial basis that they can contribute in a positive way to Irish society by working in areas that we are clearly lacking people in.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 839 - 31/10/2024 21:49:22
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Correct.
Stopped building social houses, threw €billions to private landlords in HAP, allowed private rents to go out of control; now for the second time price of private houses has gone crazy, hectares upon hectares of public owned land could have been used for affordable housing/ tenant purchases etc." The 70s was the last time there was a big social housing buil and remember most of these houses end up being handed over free or close to it which in itself created the backlash against such policies.Ballymun was built in the 60s but its impact on a conservative electrate was immense, it was a view that why do we spend money on these people. Ireland has always been a fiscally conservative country politically form both big parties and the sight of people getting something for nothing and doing nothing, never sat well with a lot of the people who supported these parties. So the government policies only reflected the voice of those who elected them.
Funny now how you have people blaming migration for the problems of others not getting freebies. The stats back up the fact that the overwhelming majority of migrants and refugees who can work, do. The question is would the Irish voter prefer to see a migrant/refugee who will work their ass off get a house or someone who will never work.
The housing issue means something different to each element of society. People who have jobs, supply is the problem - should we build houses for these people before social housing. Should all the resources be put into housing and stop building hotels, office blocks factories, roads, railways - there is only a limited amount of resources, supply is the problem. If anyone has a quick answer to supply then let's hear it.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1899 - 01/11/2024 03:59:55
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Replying To Viking66: "Why don't we have more homes for people? All this crisis is entirely the fault of government right wing economic policy over the last 30 plus years." Plenty of blame to go around Viking. Small example, look at some of the houses being built - big mansions for a 4 person family. Not just a waste of resources in the building but cost of maintaining them. The big house mentality is still alive and well.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1899 - 01/11/2024 04:05:43
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Replying To updwell: " Replying To supersub15: "It's worth remembering that the world is at war and it appears to be gaining momentum, the ongoing war is directly responsible for migration, emigration and immigration, then of course we have the Economic migrant as well. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. That statement is very unfair and unwarranted to suggest all Irish men and women here have whipped up a hatred towards migrants and refugees in this country.
There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues, ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants.
Of course there were housing, hospital waiting lists, social issues etc, etc, but not on the same scale then, as compared to today, not by a long shot, the shortage of housing and hospital beds is unprecedented never before experienced or seen in this country, the hospital waiting lists and the shortage of beds can at times be immoral and unforgiveable but we take it on the chin do we not.
I only ask one question, at what stage of the current house building revolution will it slow down or stop, if it doesn't will our supporting services like, water, sewage, power supply's, schools, hospitals, security, green belts or play areas, appropriate infrastructure, and all the other stuff that goes with it be able to support the housing program.
For as long as this housing program and the influx of migrants continues I have no problem with that so long as both are metered and programmed fairly and our own natives are not to be seen losing out or taking an unnecessary hit, that's not much to ask for continued cooperation.
For what it's worth I do think Irish people will become a minority here." There certainly is Irish men and women whipping up hatred towards migrants, you can see it on social media every weekend false patriots waving tricolour outside refugee centres. The health system has been creaking here for the last 30 years so blaming a migrant because you can't get a GP appointment or your on a waiting list has a lot more to do with successive governments closing down regional hospitals and ED's. Just think about it a refugee must be in a pretty bad situation to come over here to sleep in a tent in Dublin and see this as an improvement in their circumstances. We all agree here that the housing situation is dire and here we have thousands of men not allowed to work who could be carpenters, block layers, plasterers, plumbers etc., why not give these people asylum straight away if they can prove on a trial basis that they can contribute in a positive way to Irish society by working in areas that we are clearly lacking people in."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13662 - 01/11/2024 06:11:50
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Replying To updwell: " Replying To supersub15: "It's worth remembering that the world is at war and it appears to be gaining momentum, the ongoing war is directly responsible for migration, emigration and immigration, then of course we have the Economic migrant as well. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. That statement is very unfair and unwarranted to suggest all Irish men and women here have whipped up a hatred towards migrants and refugees in this country.
There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues, ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants.
Of course there were housing, hospital waiting lists, social issues etc, etc, but not on the same scale then, as compared to today, not by a long shot, the shortage of housing and hospital beds is unprecedented never before experienced or seen in this country, the hospital waiting lists and the shortage of beds can at times be immoral and unforgiveable but we take it on the chin do we not.
I only ask one question, at what stage of the current house building revolution will it slow down or stop, if it doesn't will our supporting services like, water, sewage, power supply's, schools, hospitals, security, green belts or play areas, appropriate infrastructure, and all the other stuff that goes with it be able to support the housing program.
For as long as this housing program and the influx of migrants continues I have no problem with that so long as both are metered and programmed fairly and our own natives are not to be seen losing out or taking an unnecessary hit, that's not much to ask for continued cooperation.
For what it's worth I do think Irish people will become a minority here." There certainly is Irish men and women whipping up hatred towards migrants, you can see it on social media every weekend false patriots waving tricolour outside refugee centres. The health system has been creaking here for the last 30 years so blaming a migrant because you can't get a GP appointment or your on a waiting list has a lot more to do with successive governments closing down regional hospitals and ED's. Just think about it a refugee must be in a pretty bad situation to come over here to sleep in a tent in Dublin and see this as an improvement in their circumstances. We all agree here that the housing situation is dire and here we have thousands of men not allowed to work who could be carpenters, block layers, plasterers, plumbers etc., why not give these people asylum straight away if they can prove on a trial basis that they can contribute in a positive way to Irish society by working in areas that we are clearly lacking people in."
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3027 - 01/11/2024 08:24:18
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Replying To zinny: "The 70s was the last time there was a big social housing buil and remember most of these houses end up being handed over free or close to it which in itself created the backlash against such policies.Ballymun was built in the 60s but its impact on a conservative electrate was immense, it was a view that why do we spend money on these people. Ireland has always been a fiscally conservative country politically form both big parties and the sight of people getting something for nothing and doing nothing, never sat well with a lot of the people who supported these parties. So the government policies only reflected the voice of those who elected them.
Funny now how you have people blaming migration for the problems of others not getting freebies. The stats back up the fact that the overwhelming majority of migrants and refugees who can work, do. The question is would the Irish voter prefer to see a migrant/refugee who will work their ass off get a house or someone who will never work.
The housing issue means something different to each element of society. People who have jobs, supply is the problem - should we build houses for these people before social housing. Should all the resources be put into housing and stop building hotels, office blocks factories, roads, railways - there is only a limited amount of resources, supply is the problem. If anyone has a quick answer to supply then let's hear it." The big difference now is what were once "middle class" can't access housing. Teachers, nurses, guards etc.
There is a fast answer to supply. It's rezoning of land, cpos and modular housing but there's no political will to do it.
Step 1 is increased social housing to get those trapped in private rentals out of it.
Once that happens, being a private landlord will no longer be a license to print money, and these properties will enter the market for sale, thus decreasing competition and lowering prices. Problem solved.
To be fair a tactical approach to migration is necessary to meet the needs of the above. We do need more tradespeople.
A few years back they offered relocation grants for Irish nurses returning home. We need to do the same for tradespeople.
The HSE should probably have considerable stock of housing too. A big part of the staffing issues stems from the same problem.
I guarantee you any perceived racism will disappear if this problem is solved. We are by default a good natured people, but it's very easy to present a narrative of somebody to blame to vulnerable people. Give them security and they won't swallow that narrative.
We also need to declare a state of emergency to temporarily suspend the planning objection process and keep busy bodies out of it.
Lastly, a measured review of the current housing stock and occupants of same. The number of retired couples in four bedroom homes is deplorable. The states owns those homes. They need to decide what's appropriate.
Children are our future, we can't leave them in hotels.
I'd actually go as far as to say we need to solve the housing crisis to support future labour and pension needs. People are later and later having fewer kids because it's not economically viable.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 01/11/2024 08:34:39
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Replying To updwell: " Replying To supersub15: "It's worth remembering that the world is at war and it appears to be gaining momentum, the ongoing war is directly responsible for migration, emigration and immigration, then of course we have the Economic migrant as well. The whipping up of hatred towards migrants and refugees is despicable and disgusting in this country. That statement is very unfair and unwarranted to suggest all Irish men and women here have whipped up a hatred towards migrants and refugees in this country.
There were housing issues, hospital waiting lists and social issues, ever before immigration was an issue here and young people leaving now is down to life style choices rather than being driven out by migrants.
Of course there were housing, hospital waiting lists, social issues etc, etc, but not on the same scale then, as compared to today, not by a long shot, the shortage of housing and hospital beds is unprecedented never before experienced or seen in this country, the hospital waiting lists and the shortage of beds can at times be immoral and unforgiveable but we take it on the chin do we not.
I only ask one question, at what stage of the current house building revolution will it slow down or stop, if it doesn't will our supporting services like, water, sewage, power supply's, schools, hospitals, security, green belts or play areas, appropriate infrastructure, and all the other stuff that goes with it be able to support the housing program.
For as long as this housing program and the influx of migrants continues I have no problem with that so long as both are metered and programmed fairly and our own natives are not to be seen losing out or taking an unnecessary hit, that's not much to ask for continued cooperation.
For what it's worth I do think Irish people will become a minority here." There certainly is Irish men and women whipping up hatred towards migrants, you can see it on social media every weekend false patriots waving tricolour outside refugee centres. The health system has been creaking here for the last 30 years so blaming a migrant because you can't get a GP appointment or your on a waiting list has a lot more to do with successive governments closing down regional hospitals and ED's. Just think about it a refugee must be in a pretty bad situation to come over here to sleep in a tent in Dublin and see this as an improvement in their circumstances. We all agree here that the housing situation is dire and here we have thousands of men not allowed to work who could be carpenters, block layers, plasterers, plumbers etc., why not give these people asylum straight away if they can prove on a trial basis that they can contribute in a positive way to Irish society by working in areas that we are clearly lacking people in."
Sort out housing, school places, availability of healthcare and the more the merrier, which is the sentiment of the majority.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3096 - 01/11/2024 08:36:12
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Replying To zinny: "Plenty of blame to go around Viking. Small example, look at some of the houses being built - big mansions for a 4 person family. Not just a waste of resources in the building but cost of maintaining them. The big house mentality is still alive and well." There's also thousands of houses lying empty some for years take a walk around any small or medium sized town in the country most of the streets have several empty houses and businesses that could and should be put into use if there was a will on the behalf of county Council and government
minor77 (Galway) - Posts: 238 - 01/11/2024 08:44:02
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Replying To yew_tree: "Problem now is your branded a right wing racist if you voice any concerns which is proven by the comments here. Personally I've no problem with legal immigration and our country has benefited from it.
However dropping hundreds of refugees into a small town with little or no services, a chronic waiting list to see a gp as a prime example has made a lot of people angry. When you see them then driving good cars and zooming around the town in scoters while your stuck in traffic coming home from a hard days work your thinking to yourself what the hell is going on here…." Well the reality is that is that it is a far right trope and it would be incorrect to call it anything else. Maybe the racist label is thrown around too easily but it's also a reality that the figureheads of the whole sorry movement have repeatedly proven that to be accurate also
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12165 - 01/11/2024 10:15:01
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Replying To minor77: "There's also thousands of houses lying empty some for years take a walk around any small or medium sized town in the country most of the streets have several empty houses and businesses that could and should be put into use if there was a will on the behalf of county Council and government" Councils can only build/buy what Central Governnent approves and funds them.
We had "Financial emergency measures in the Public Interest" .
If the political will was there we could have had "Housing Emergency measures...."
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1918 - 01/11/2024 10:26:36
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If you want to see how this unchecked illegal economic migration is going to end up just look across the water at our friends in England and see how their cities and towns are now.
Anyone who speaks up against it is a far right racist, if that's the case then I'd guess that the vast majority of the people fall into that category.
I have nothing against legal migration and genuine asylum seekers, anyone who can't se what's going on is either naive or willfully blind.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3001 - 01/11/2024 12:01:43
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If you want to see how this unchecked illegal economic migration is going to end up just look across the water at our friends in England and see how their cities and towns are now.
Anyone who speaks up against it is a far right racist, if that's the case then I'd guess that the vast majority of the people fall into that category.
I have nothing against legal migration and genuine asylum seekers, anyone who can't se what's going on is either naive or willfully blind." "Unchecked illegal economic immigration"
?????
Any facts or figures?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1918 - 01/11/2024 12:22:26
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If you want to see how this unchecked illegal economic migration is going to end up just look across the water at our friends in England and see how their cities and towns are now.
Anyone who speaks up against it is a far right racist, if that's the case then I'd guess that the vast majority of the people fall into that category.
I have nothing against legal migration and genuine asylum seekers, anyone who can't se what's going on is either naive or willfully blind." The main reason many English cities and towns are in the state they are in is because of a decade of chronic underfunding by national and local government and corruption and mismanagement by local councils, many of which are now bankrupt. Nothing to do with lazy whipping boy of 'unchecked illegal economic migration'.
There are no 2024 figures yet, so last data anyone can use is for 2023. In 2023 a total of 1.2m people entered UK and 532k people left. So net migration of 685k. Of the 1.2m entering UK last year, 29k entered illegally, which is 2.4%.
So the amount of so-called "unchecked illegal economic migration" into the UK as a whole last year was 2.4% of all those who migrated to the UK last year. Don't let the Daily Mail and its affiliates direct your thinking on this. The political class in the UK let down the towns and cities which are left behind and looking for someone to blame, and the ideological thinking of a few rich charlatans in that political class in separating from the EU has deepened the hole for many of those forgotten regions who now can't even get EU structural funds to help them. Pointing at 2.4% of those who enter the country (the poorest and most desperate who put themselves in more danger than we can imagine) and placing the blame on them, is doing the work of Farage and the Daily Mail and similar slime-ball outlets. The data simply doesn't bear this view out.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 568 - 01/11/2024 13:15:50
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Replying To Breffni40: "Well the reality is that is that it is a far right trope and it would be incorrect to call it anything else. Maybe the racist label is thrown around too easily but it's also a reality that the figureheads of the whole sorry movement have repeatedly proven that to be accurate also" So ordinary decent people should not be worried about 100s of people being sent to their small town where there are little or no services? Okay got ya.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11390 - 01/11/2024 19:43:22
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If you want to see how this unchecked illegal economic migration is going to end up just look across the water at our friends in England and see how their cities and towns are now.
Anyone who speaks up against it is a far right racist, if that's the case then I'd guess that the vast majority of the people fall into that category.
I have nothing against legal migration and genuine asylum seekers, anyone who can't se what's going on is either naive or willfully blind." Not sure the UK is a good example as they invaded half the globe but I get what you're saying. A more accurate example may be Sweden which has turned into a dangerous divided place.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11390 - 01/11/2024 19:46:12
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