National Forum

Wicklow GAA thread

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To StrandedinWW:  "West vs East now thats the problem with Wicklow football. This pettiness. Your showing your age now, time to go back to the dark ages. The best footballers that want to play for the county will be selected.

I was at all 4 games, thoughts, well the long ball teams except balto won in the end. The 3 teams in semi finals along with Rathnew deployed this. Pump the ball into the square see what happens teams won out. The footballing sides blesso, Eire og and an Tochair failed to progress. It's not a great standard, like an under 14 game, but it worked. Never work at intercounty.

The other point, I didn't think ballymun was in wicklow."
It becomes a problem when it's seen that way with the volume of selections from clubs from the East through the last number of years. Going back to my point on how the west will be overlooked after this year's championship, in counties such as kikdare where there will be no open trials for players as the selections will be based on their club performances and progress in the championship, regardless of who wins this year's championship you can be sure there will be very few selections from any of the 4 teams remining on next years panel. Take an tochar & AGB for example the weekend how many of the "county standard" players showed up when it mattered most? Next to no one. We are looking at the most open championship in years and 3 teams that would have been overlooked coming into this year's championship in Tinahely, Kiltegan & Dunlavin. There are plenty of players from these 3 clubs that would do a job in the wicklow set up.

WestWicklow14 (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 17/09/2024 22:59:40    2570485

Link

Replying To WestWicklow14:  "It becomes a problem when it's seen that way with the volume of selections from clubs from the East through the last number of years. Going back to my point on how the west will be overlooked after this year's championship, in counties such as kikdare where there will be no open trials for players as the selections will be based on their club performances and progress in the championship, regardless of who wins this year's championship you can be sure there will be very few selections from any of the 4 teams remining on next years panel. Take an tochar & AGB for example the weekend how many of the "county standard" players showed up when it mattered most? Next to no one. We are looking at the most open championship in years and 3 teams that would have been overlooked coming into this year's championship in Tinahely, Kiltegan & Dunlavin. There are plenty of players from these 3 clubs that would do a job in the wicklow set up."
I'm not too sure that your argument would hold water. I think that the 3 clubs you mention have all a got pretty good representation on county panels and always have had. Balto lads have their own reasons. AGB had only one on the county panel last year, if memory serves. Possibly Greystones had none or very few. Roundwood were probably over represented alright and from what I hear, they would be happy enough to have a smaller representation as they struggled in the Div 1 of the league earlier in the year due to players involved with senior and u20 panels . Surely it is the job of whoever the manager of the county panel who picks the panel he feels he wants and that can hardly be placed at the county boards door. I am no fan of the county board but my grievances with them have nothing to do with county panels, rather that in nearly a century and a half of inter county football, our cupboard is pretty bare.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 18/09/2024 08:17:37    2570500

Link

Replying To Pat Mustard:  "Totaly agree with this. and to add Nicks winning u15 last year and now Blesso this year, minor could be heading west as well looking at last night matchs results.

u15 final sunday got no mention here but i stayed for it it was a great game with plenty of good kicking. Best team won blesso looked a serious team with big lads and stength all down the middle and well able to play ball short and long. lots of good citeogs and fellas who can kick strong of left and right. Pats big lads showed up well to and had good nippy lads to kick nice scores in forwards. Talent is defintely good at u 15 based on that final."
An Tochar won the 17s A last season and rathnew were beaten in the 15s A final so what's your point ,the west is full of group teams and that's why they've won a lot of underage. Stand alone teams are better off in a B championship with their own players and they can bring them on to seniors squads in their own systems. This season again will be the same with 3 group teams in the 17s A . Fair play I say to Carnew,Newtown,Annacurra,Rathnew,Baltinglass and a few more for having the conviction and foresight to keep going it alone instead of winning plastic medals with stacked group teams that mean nothing to the history of a CLUB.

Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 65 - 18/09/2024 10:11:21    2570517

Link

Replying To WestWicklow14:  "It becomes a problem when it's seen that way with the volume of selections from clubs from the East through the last number of years. Going back to my point on how the west will be overlooked after this year's championship, in counties such as kikdare where there will be no open trials for players as the selections will be based on their club performances and progress in the championship, regardless of who wins this year's championship you can be sure there will be very few selections from any of the 4 teams remining on next years panel. Take an tochar & AGB for example the weekend how many of the "county standard" players showed up when it mattered most? Next to no one. We are looking at the most open championship in years and 3 teams that would have been overlooked coming into this year's championship in Tinahely, Kiltegan & Dunlavin. There are plenty of players from these 3 clubs that would do a job in the wicklow set up."
Okay I just had look at u20'panel from last year on web -W-13 E-15.
No Senior Panel on web so looked at team started v Kildare w-6 e-9. There not much difference.
I agree there should be perhaps more Balto and tinahely players. Kiltegan & dunlavin relying on old guard on senior already and young lads on 20s last year.
However, A couple of players don't make a team as proved at weekend. Agb haven't been at the races all year but they have talent. As for I disagree An Tochair they have the talent also a very young team, someone told me at the weekend one player was still only 17. They were blistering for 45 minutes and then collapsed. But that doesn't make you a poor team, perhaps inexperience cost them in the end.
I'm sure the management will go after the best players available no matter where they are from.

StrandedinWW (Wicklow) - Posts: 37 - 18/09/2024 10:18:48    2570518

Link

Replying To WestWicklow14:  "It becomes a problem when it's seen that way with the volume of selections from clubs from the East through the last number of years. Going back to my point on how the west will be overlooked after this year's championship, in counties such as kikdare where there will be no open trials for players as the selections will be based on their club performances and progress in the championship, regardless of who wins this year's championship you can be sure there will be very few selections from any of the 4 teams remining on next years panel. Take an tochar & AGB for example the weekend how many of the "county standard" players showed up when it mattered most? Next to no one. We are looking at the most open championship in years and 3 teams that would have been overlooked coming into this year's championship in Tinahely, Kiltegan & Dunlavin. There are plenty of players from these 3 clubs that would do a job in the wicklow set up."
From the outside looking in and as an observer who lives in another county and is familiar with the scene in both counties. The days are over where every player will want to play intercounty football. There is a big debate in Kildare as to why their under age success hasn't translated into senior success. There are two reasons, there is a big difference between underage games and senior intercounty games with its mass defences. Secondly, there is too much demanded on intercounty players. I believe that the senior intercounty landscape is reaching a tipping point where players are considering their life outside what is demanded and I think a lot of counties are finding it an increasing struggling to get their best players to represent the county team. Something has to give. Do I think that there is a bias towards the West in terms of county selection; I don't think so but this may be due to the senior team being managed by an outsider. I don't know enough about the underage scene but I have heard stories where players who are members of development squads are told not to be playing other games. If this is true then players will walk away. When I watch our teams at intercounty level, we have some decent footballers but I never believe that they have the know-how to win games. A team can have better players than their opposition but there is an art to winning which is probably a mindset - we have never had it and we don't have it currently. Until this is addressed by clubs and intercounty teams employing a psychologist, I don't see how it can change. Other counties have used a psychologist to make the breakthrough, for example, the Limerick hurlers. Success in port at the highest level is predominantly in the mind as much as in the feet or hands.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2016 - 18/09/2024 10:58:20    2570527

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "From the outside looking in and as an observer who lives in another county and is familiar with the scene in both counties. The days are over where every player will want to play intercounty football. There is a big debate in Kildare as to why their under age success hasn't translated into senior success. There are two reasons, there is a big difference between underage games and senior intercounty games with its mass defences. Secondly, there is too much demanded on intercounty players. I believe that the senior intercounty landscape is reaching a tipping point where players are considering their life outside what is demanded and I think a lot of counties are finding it an increasing struggling to get their best players to represent the county team. Something has to give. Do I think that there is a bias towards the West in terms of county selection; I don't think so but this may be due to the senior team being managed by an outsider. I don't know enough about the underage scene but I have heard stories where players who are members of development squads are told not to be playing other games. If this is true then players will walk away. When I watch our teams at intercounty level, we have some decent footballers but I never believe that they have the know-how to win games. A team can have better players than their opposition but there is an art to winning which is probably a mindset - we have never had it and we don't have it currently. Until this is addressed by clubs and intercounty teams employing a psychologist, I don't see how it can change. Other counties have used a psychologist to make the breakthrough, for example, the Limerick hurlers. Success in port at the highest level is predominantly in the mind as much as in the feet or hands."
County development squads have had Tony og Regan for the past two seasons.

Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 65 - 18/09/2024 17:36:15    2570616

Link

Replying To Albundy19:  "An Tochar won the 17s A last season and rathnew were beaten in the 15s A final so what's your point ,the west is full of group teams and that's why they've won a lot of underage. Stand alone teams are better off in a B championship with their own players and they can bring them on to seniors squads in their own systems. This season again will be the same with 3 group teams in the 17s A . Fair play I say to Carnew,Newtown,Annacurra,Rathnew,Baltinglass and a few more for having the conviction and foresight to keep going it alone instead of winning plastic medals with stacked group teams that mean nothing to the history of a CLUB."
Absolute nonsense. Players are much better off playing at a higher standard with a team that can do well rather than playing at a lower grade struggling to keep a team. Baltinglass are a poor example to be using, who would they join with the same can be said for rathnew and Carnew? Baltinglass has the population to be playing on their own it's not always the case that clubs have the numbers to be a stand alone club it can only be a benefit to the county have more clubs at the higher level playing. Don't think any player that's had success would see their medals as "plastic".. sounds like a comment coming from a lad that's had abit of punishment from an amalgamated club.

WestWicklow14 (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 18/09/2024 22:49:15    2570644

Link

Replying To WestWicklow14:  "Absolute nonsense. Players are much better off playing at a higher standard with a team that can do well rather than playing at a lower grade struggling to keep a team. Baltinglass are a poor example to be using, who would they join with the same can be said for rathnew and Carnew? Baltinglass has the population to be playing on their own it's not always the case that clubs have the numbers to be a stand alone club it can only be a benefit to the county have more clubs at the higher level playing. Don't think any player that's had success would see their medals as "plastic".. sounds like a comment coming from a lad that's had abit of punishment from an amalgamated club."
Nope , so for example 3 players from Tinahealy play first team with Tomnafinogue and the rest play in the D championship or sit on the line for the season
"sure that's great for Tinahealy "

Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 65 - 19/09/2024 07:50:49    2570660

Link

Replying To Albundy19:  "Nope , so for example 3 players from Tinahealy play first team with Tomnafinogue and the rest play in the D championship or sit on the line for the season
"sure that's great for Tinahealy ""
There are obviously differing views on district teams. I would be inclined to agree with your opinion in that, in the long term, it can't be good for the overall health of the clubs involved. Ok, the better players benefit from playing at a higher level but the lesser lights or weaker players don't get exposed to the much of the ups and downs of juvenile football which is where the skills are developed. I realise that some of the smaller clubs just might not have enough players at the various ages, but this has always been the case. It's really only the bigger town clubs who can get 15 lads out who are there or thereabouts with the age cutoff. Other clubs could have 15 yrs olds competing at u17. I think Tochair had some very close to 15 on last years winning team. In the cases of clubs struggling for numbers, it makes sense to combine but if "bigger" clubs pull in one or two of the best of the minnows, that isn't doing much for the minnow. .

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 19/09/2024 09:59:16    2570682

Link

Replying To Albundy19:  "Nope , so for example 3 players from Tinahealy play first team with Tomnafinogue and the rest play in the D championship or sit on the line for the season
"sure that's great for Tinahealy ""
I'm not sure it's as simple as that. The number of players available will dictate whether or not a club can stand alone. I'm fairly sure that most clubs would prefer to have their own teams but this may not always be possible. Knockananna have had representatives on minor and under-20 teams for the last few years and I'd be fairly confident that playing as part of a group team has helped with the development of these players. The problem with making decisions and forming opinions on these matters is that most people do so with a personal bias towards their own club. Over the last ten years I think we have slowly crept up the rankings in underage and even at senior level. We have reached Leinster semi-finals at minor and under-20 level and played in Division 3 this year at senior. There were also two great championship performances this year. We are a long way from where we'd like to be as a county but progress is progress and we're not going to win an All-Ireland over night. An Tochar deservedly won the minor championship last year. They beat an amalgamated team in the final and I think facing a team like that would have set the bar higher for them and improved the standard of the championship in general.

HowISeeIt (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 19/09/2024 10:23:44    2570693

Link

Replying To HowISeeIt:  "I'm not sure it's as simple as that. The number of players available will dictate whether or not a club can stand alone. I'm fairly sure that most clubs would prefer to have their own teams but this may not always be possible. Knockananna have had representatives on minor and under-20 teams for the last few years and I'd be fairly confident that playing as part of a group team has helped with the development of these players. The problem with making decisions and forming opinions on these matters is that most people do so with a personal bias towards their own club. Over the last ten years I think we have slowly crept up the rankings in underage and even at senior level. We have reached Leinster semi-finals at minor and under-20 level and played in Division 3 this year at senior. There were also two great championship performances this year. We are a long way from where we'd like to be as a county but progress is progress and we're not going to win an All-Ireland over night. An Tochar deservedly won the minor championship last year. They beat an amalgamated team in the final and I think facing a team like that would have set the bar higher for them and improved the standard of the championship in general."
I think this is a fair assessment. In recent years, our under20 teams have been very competitive and have competed with the best in the province. Our senior team played more times in Division 3 in the last decade than in the previous one. I do think we are making incremental progress, yes, it is slow but we need to keep developing good young players who can make the step from under 20 to senior. The biggest disappointment this year was relegation to Division 4; this division doesn't facilitate developing good senior players. I believe the number one objective for Oisin and his team in 2025 is promotion back to Division 3 and that this should be the minimum division we aspire to play our league football in annually. In relation to under age and minor teams. I think it should be based upon playing numbers. I believe that players who are in the right age group develop more rapidly when they play as a part of a team that is competing at a higher level. I wouldn't think a fifteen year player should be playing under seventeen unless he is physically big enough and is an exceptional player; these individuals rarely come along. Dunlavin and Donard have benefited from playing together at juvenile level. Would either club fare any better if they play their own teams at underage? I don't think they would, however, one size doesn't fit all. I'd be more concerned about the heavily populated towns on the east coast who are not doing as well as they should be at underage. Equally, Baltinglass in the west seem to be struggling at underage which is a poor state of affairs considering the players they developed in the past.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2016 - 19/09/2024 10:46:46    2570700

Link

Replying To HowISeeIt:  "I'm not sure it's as simple as that. The number of players available will dictate whether or not a club can stand alone. I'm fairly sure that most clubs would prefer to have their own teams but this may not always be possible. Knockananna have had representatives on minor and under-20 teams for the last few years and I'd be fairly confident that playing as part of a group team has helped with the development of these players. The problem with making decisions and forming opinions on these matters is that most people do so with a personal bias towards their own club. Over the last ten years I think we have slowly crept up the rankings in underage and even at senior level. We have reached Leinster semi-finals at minor and under-20 level and played in Division 3 this year at senior. There were also two great championship performances this year. We are a long way from where we'd like to be as a county but progress is progress and we're not going to win an All-Ireland over night. An Tochar deservedly won the minor championship last year. They beat an amalgamated team in the final and I think facing a team like that would have set the bar higher for them and improved the standard of the championship in general."
One great bugbear on here which you have touched on is minor and u21 reaching Leinster semis That hasn't been for years - many years. We have gone backwards these levels. Our Senior clubs invariably fall at the first fence in the Leinster club. 20 yrs back we were a feared county at this level. Not so anymore.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 19/09/2024 11:04:13    2570703

Link

Replying To Freethinker:  "One great bugbear on here which you have touched on is minor and u21 reaching Leinster semis That hasn't been for years - many years. We have gone backwards these levels. Our Senior clubs invariably fall at the first fence in the Leinster club. 20 yrs back we were a feared county at this level. Not so anymore."
2018 was the last year any Wicklow team made a Semi final with that Minor squad, and look how many of these players on the team have progressed with many making Senior apps for us which is brilliant. We are making progression, just takes time!

WicklowB1973 (Wicklow) - Posts: 23 - 19/09/2024 11:21:39    2570707

Link

Replying To Freethinker:  "One great bugbear on here which you have touched on is minor and u21 reaching Leinster semis That hasn't been for years - many years. We have gone backwards these levels. Our Senior clubs invariably fall at the first fence in the Leinster club. 20 yrs back we were a feared county at this level. Not so anymore."
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we last made a semi final in 2022. 2 years ago.

HowISeeIt (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 19/09/2024 11:43:01    2570718

Link

Replying To HowISeeIt:  "Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we last made a semi final in 2022. 2 years ago."
Correct - my apologies - lost to kildare by 12/13

WicklowB1973 (Wicklow) - Posts: 23 - 19/09/2024 14:46:44    2570772

Link

Matthew ging and Eoin Darcy scrored alot the other day they have to be picked for wicklow Squad

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 243 - 19/09/2024 14:59:17    2570778

Link

Replying To lor12:  "Matthew ging and Eoin Darcy scrored alot the other day they have to be picked for wicklow Squad"
I think they were on last years panel. Possibly injuries ?

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 19/09/2024 15:12:55    2570783

Link

Now that we are down to Semi-final stage, some quick observations on what we've seen so far in the senior champ:

• Rathnew - would have to be worried about the depth of their forward unit, as elsewhere around the pitch they seem in good shape. A club who, during the heyday in the 2000s could could pick six from the two Doyles, Two Gills, Three Mernaghs, Ronan Coffey, Leighton Glynn etc, still hoping that Stafford can get the a goal in on the square, shouldn't be where they are at now. What has happened to Eoin Doyle?

• AGB - same old story, can't get it done when push comes to shove, Lots of young talent coming in but big players that they have still being dependent on for a while now will be another year older next year.


• An Tochar, I wouldn't be too worried if I were them right now. Have established themselves back in Senior nicely as a football powerhouse again after 15+ years in doldrums . Will be disappointed after last week , however big days ahead of them . Just need to be careful that they don't trend like Arklow and be knocking around quarter & semi finals for too long without getting across the line.

• Tinahely - Maybe its starting to click. Slow start but could be coming good at right time for them. Outside of the St Mary's experiment some years back , Miley hasn't been down that end of the county in a long time

• Dunlavin - Delighted for Mick Murtagh. The man absolutely bleeds Wicklow & Dunlavin football and his team seem to be a reflection of him in that they leave it all out on the field

• Bray - we, as a county, need to get more from them. Why can't they replicate the secret sauce they have found for their hurlers on the football side.

• St Pats - avoided the relegation dog fight but trending in the wrong direction and the talk seems to be of very little due to come up from underage in the short term that is going to improve their lot

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 135 - 19/09/2024 16:23:34    2570811

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I think this is a fair assessment. In recent years, our under20 teams have been very competitive and have competed with the best in the province. Our senior team played more times in Division 3 in the last decade than in the previous one. I do think we are making incremental progress, yes, it is slow but we need to keep developing good young players who can make the step from under 20 to senior. The biggest disappointment this year was relegation to Division 4; this division doesn't facilitate developing good senior players. I believe the number one objective for Oisin and his team in 2025 is promotion back to Division 3 and that this should be the minimum division we aspire to play our league football in annually. In relation to under age and minor teams. I think it should be based upon playing numbers. I believe that players who are in the right age group develop more rapidly when they play as a part of a team that is competing at a higher level. I wouldn't think a fifteen year player should be playing under seventeen unless he is physically big enough and is an exceptional player; these individuals rarely come along. Dunlavin and Donard have benefited from playing together at juvenile level. Would either club fare any better if they play their own teams at underage? I don't think they would, however, one size doesn't fit all. I'd be more concerned about the heavily populated towns on the east coast who are not doing as well as they should be at underage. Equally, Baltinglass in the west seem to be struggling at underage which is a poor state of affairs considering the players they developed in the past."
I don't think there's any difference in standard between the bottom 5 or 6 in div3 and the top 5 or 6 in div4 tbh. Tailtean Cup and Leinster Championship results in recent years would pretty much back that up too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13661 - 19/09/2024 17:13:09    2570827

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "I don't think there's any difference in standard between the bottom 5 or 6 in div3 and the top 5 or 6 in div4 tbh. Tailtean Cup and Leinster Championship results in recent years would pretty much back that up too."
Agreed. But, if a team can stay in Div 3, they are at least testing themselves against recent and aspiring Div 2 teams which is bound to improve them. The odd stay in Div 2 would be advantageous also to build confidence and skills.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1243 - 20/09/2024 07:44:10    2570886

Link