Cavan Forum

Hyland under pressure. So says Derrys manager Barton

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Replying To deanmartin:  "
Replying To s goldrick:  "beat Derry - again, a team in disarray, hopeless in Ulster and way behind us in terms of their development - OOPS! this loss is simply unacceptable IMO.

stupid statement. you guys have an opion about someone and then you invent "facts" to suit your opinion. There is little between derry,Roscommon and ourselves. it all depends on little things on the day"
SGoldrick - I'll tell you whats between Derry, Roscommon and ourselves, Derry beat us in the league and Championship this year, and as for Roscommon, need I say more!"
so, are you saying that Derry are a better team than us

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 27/07/2016 14:43:12    1890975

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Derry's current state vs. their status since 2008 are 2 very different things. Up until last year, they had Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon puling the strings (and others like McCloy at the back too).

Right now, they are not a top side and my underlying point here is that they are not at the standard that Cavan are striving to reach. If you are willing to accept our defeat to them 2 weeks ago then you are willing to retain Terry Hyland and face relegation from Division 1 and an early qualifier exit again next year.

Some of us want more and believe we have the players to achieve more."
Totally agree Cavan47 - a lot of people on here seem to accept the underachievement and are happy to continue with it. After all the recent Ulster U21 titles, and 5 years at the helm with the senior team, the least we should have expected was an Ulster Final appearance.
Anyone that things the present management team should remain do not have the interests of Cavan Football at heart.

deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 27/07/2016 14:54:49    1890984

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Are Cavan in Gerry Reilly final and if so when is it .

Breffinifan (Cavan) - Posts: 91 - 27/07/2016 16:31:17    1891055

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Derry's current state vs. their status since 2008 are 2 very different things. Up until last year, they had Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon puling the strings (and others like McCloy at the back too).

Right now, they are not a top side and my underlying point here is that they are not at the standard that Cavan are striving to reach. If you are willing to accept our defeat to them 2 weeks ago then you are willing to retain Terry Hyland and face relegation from Division 1 and an early qualifier exit again next year.

Some of us want more and believe we have the players to achieve more."
So Derry are in disarray because of 3 players that retired 4 years ago??????????

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 27/07/2016 17:35:31    1891104

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Replying To Breffinifan:  "Are Cavan in Gerry Reilly final and if so when is it ."
Cavan play Dublin for the 3rd year in a row on Sunday at 7:30 in Millbrook Oldcastle.. It should be a good Final

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 27/07/2016 19:20:58    1891159

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Replying To aceofspades:  "So Derry are in disarray because of 3 players that retired 4 years ago??????????"
Read my posts again. .


Derry were a different team now than the team of the previous years. You can't compare them because they've lost so many important players. I wasn't the one who brought their "success" dating back to 2008.

My point is that they don't have the quality of player that they had in previous years and moreso that they were atrocious in the Ulster championship and the loss to Tipp confirmed their status as a team well below the level that this current group of Cavan players are capable of reaching IMO.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 28/07/2016 10:29:37    1891378

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Replying To deanmartin:  "Hardtimes...Given the failures of Roscommom (whom we failed to beat in recent years), yet a hurling County beat them with ease, then McStay and Hyland should be beaten with the same stick!!

Needless to say, knowing our County Board, they'll probably give it to Niall Lynch have his successful tenure as Co U21 manager....oh wait"
That's the problem I have with a lot of your views Dean, you totally duck and weave issues and conveniently ignore many many things, whether it be previous things you've said, facts and figures, or god forbid positives our management team have achieved.
You'd beat McStay with the same stick yeah? This is the guy you championed only last year! I actually think you mentioned you knew him. So what, you'd have sacked Hyland last year, mid league was it, and put this guy in? To what? Sack again possibly last year or most probably this year after an average championship. How can you stand by these statements or advocate for a CB to operate like this?- it would ruin us!
Us and Roscommon should be disappointed with our year but to be fair to McStay he kept them in Division 1. Hyland has got us to Division 1. Every year it's been the same nonsense- "he's put Cavan football backwards", "pro Hyland brigade", "we'll not get out of division 3", "we'll be lucky to win a game in division 2" etc. And yet somehow we find ourselves in Division 1. Hyland is a decent manager and has done a great job. This next level manager talk may or may not have merit but I have yet to see too many names thrown about to fit the bill or justify sacking Terry.
I feel his time may be close to being up but I wouldn't begrudge him another year. There's people will balk at the mere notion, there's people have us relegated next year already. There's a lot of negativity even though we have some big teams coming to town next year. How about we back whoever is managing us, get out to support the lads and see how it pans out first.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 28/07/2016 12:39:05    1891460

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "That's the problem I have with a lot of your views Dean, you totally duck and weave issues and conveniently ignore many many things, whether it be previous things you've said, facts and figures, or god forbid positives our management team have achieved.
You'd beat McStay with the same stick yeah? This is the guy you championed only last year! I actually think you mentioned you knew him. So what, you'd have sacked Hyland last year, mid league was it, and put this guy in? To what? Sack again possibly last year or most probably this year after an average championship. How can you stand by these statements or advocate for a CB to operate like this?- it would ruin us!
Us and Roscommon should be disappointed with our year but to be fair to McStay he kept them in Division 1. Hyland has got us to Division 1. Every year it's been the same nonsense- "he's put Cavan football backwards", "pro Hyland brigade", "we'll not get out of division 3", "we'll be lucky to win a game in division 2" etc. And yet somehow we find ourselves in Division 1. Hyland is a decent manager and has done a great job. This next level manager talk may or may not have merit but I have yet to see too many names thrown about to fit the bill or justify sacking Terry.
I feel his time may be close to being up but I wouldn't begrudge him another year. There's people will balk at the mere notion, there's people have us relegated next year already. There's a lot of negativity even though we have some big teams coming to town next year. How about we back whoever is managing us, get out to support the lads and see how it pans out first."
I don't disagree with anything you've said there.

And I've said on another thread that I will be 100% behind whoever our team and management are next year.


But, like many other supporters, I don't think Terry has the tactical guile or know-how mid-game to compete with the majority of Division 1 teams. Now don't get me wrong, we have no god-given right to avoid relegation next year, but I think an astute manager would target the games needed to keep us up - namely; Kerry if we get them early, Monaghan, and Roscommon .
What I anticipate is us spilling our absolute guts against Dublin in Croker or Mayo in Castlebar and coming up short . . .moral victories, but letting ourselves down in the long run with defeats to the 3 mentioned above.

As for the championship - we have seen Tyrone in transition improve year on year to win Ulster this year, Monaghan have gone backwards but still look stronger than us, and Donegal are still well ahead of us. We shouldn't be adding Derry to that list but alas here we are. .

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 28/07/2016 13:53:55    1891511

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Let Terry bring us back to Div 2 . Then when he eventually goes he will be gone for good . He has been with the Seniors in some capacity for the last 10 years or more.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 28/07/2016 15:31:48    1891573

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I don't disagree with anything you've said there.

And I've said on another thread that I will be 100% behind whoever our team and management are next year.


But, like many other supporters, I don't think Terry has the tactical guile or know-how mid-game to compete with the majority of Division 1 teams. Now don't get me wrong, we have no god-given right to avoid relegation next year, but I think an astute manager would target the games needed to keep us up - namely; Kerry if we get them early, Monaghan, and Roscommon .
What I anticipate is us spilling our absolute guts against Dublin in Croker or Mayo in Castlebar and coming up short . . .moral victories, but letting ourselves down in the long run with defeats to the 3 mentioned above.

As for the championship - we have seen Tyrone in transition improve year on year to win Ulster this year, Monaghan have gone backwards but still look stronger than us, and Donegal are still well ahead of us. We shouldn't be adding Derry to that list but alas here we are. ."
Yeah Cavanman I suppose we'll see. You may or may not be right in what you say. I wouldn't say Tyrone have been necessarily improving every year. A lot of their fans wanted Harte gone a few years ago. I would say they stagnated for a few years but stayed patient and a new crop of talent gave them a shot in the arm.
There's a lot of assumption when people say Hyland is weak tactically- is it wise to assume we have superior players? Doesn't matter how good tactically you are if players can't execute them. But he got us up through the divisions ok. He had no problems at club or junior level. Was that because Kerry came up to Portloaise to throw an AI final? On the leveler playing field that was U21 he achieved plenty and even got one over the lauded Jim McGuinness. There's truths and half truths in everything. But some things can't be denied. We lack quality scoring forwards, we lack a free taker, we could do with a high quality CHB and our Senior Club Championship is below the average standard. History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 28/07/2016 17:33:03    1891652

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Yeah Cavanman I suppose we'll see. You may or may not be right in what you say. I wouldn't say Tyrone have been necessarily improving every year. A lot of their fans wanted Harte gone a few years ago. I would say they stagnated for a few years but stayed patient and a new crop of talent gave them a shot in the arm.
There's a lot of assumption when people say Hyland is weak tactically- is it wise to assume we have superior players? Doesn't matter how good tactically you are if players can't execute them. But he got us up through the divisions ok. He had no problems at club or junior level. Was that because Kerry came up to Portloaise to throw an AI final? On the leveler playing field that was U21 he achieved plenty and even got one over the lauded Jim McGuinness. There's truths and half truths in everything. But some things can't be denied. We lack quality scoring forwards, we lack a free taker, we could do with a high quality CHB and our Senior Club Championship is below the average standard. History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on."
History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on.


Isn't it? And by history, I'm referring to recent history where our players beat their counterparts in Ulster for 4 years on the trot. Now I know we didn't have the calibre of senior players in place when bringing these successful under 21 teams through but I don't think it's wrong to suggest that this group of players are talented enough to be challenging for Ulster titles, based on what they have already achieved in their careers in a Cavan jersey.

Peter Harte, Ronan O'Neill, Tiernan McCann, Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, etc. . .none of those have won what our guys have won at underage, despite being the same age.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 29/07/2016 10:16:27    1891858

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have to say brilliant posts by you hard times said by someone who knows the cavan scene club & county & mirrors what the genuine cavan fan thinks & hopes !
well done

spiritof97 (Cavan) - Posts: 36 - 29/07/2016 10:24:35    1891866

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Replying To cavanman47:  "History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on.


Isn't it? And by history, I'm referring to recent history where our players beat their counterparts in Ulster for 4 years on the trot. Now I know we didn't have the calibre of senior players in place when bringing these successful under 21 teams through but I don't think it's wrong to suggest that this group of players are talented enough to be challenging for Ulster titles, based on what they have already achieved in their careers in a Cavan jersey.

Peter Harte, Ronan O'Neill, Tiernan McCann, Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, etc. . .none of those have won what our guys have won at underage, despite being the same age."
I know where you're coming from but that tide at U21 did lift us. It mightn't be to peoples' hopes but it did lift us none the less. Winning Ulsters at senior level is a whole different level. To get to that level we need to keep going, need to keep bringing new lads through and need to keep the current senior panel motivated and competitive. That takes hard work, lots of it and probably very little thanks and recognition. A top class forward or two would speed up the process.
Progression from U21 to senior is not a given. Every county is in the same boat, not just us. Teams like Galway and Roscommon are not progressing as fast as they'd like. Look at Cork. Unlike us they had the platform of an All Ireland Senior Football Championship winning team. They then had the same run at U21 as us. 4 provincials in a row, one final appearance, no All Ireland. They are struggling and they are a massive county. It's not so easy.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 29/07/2016 11:04:42    1891884

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  "History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on.


Isn't it? And by history, I'm referring to recent history where our players beat their counterparts in Ulster for 4 years on the trot. Now I know we didn't have the calibre of senior players in place when bringing these successful under 21 teams through but I don't think it's wrong to suggest that this group of players are talented enough to be challenging for Ulster titles, based on what they have already achieved in their careers in a Cavan jersey.

Peter Harte, Ronan O'Neill, Tiernan McCann, Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, etc. . .none of those have won what our guys have won at underage, despite being the same age."
I know where you're coming from but that tide at U21 did lift us. It mightn't be to peoples' hopes but it did lift us none the less. Winning Ulsters at senior level is a whole different level. To get to that level we need to keep going, need to keep bringing new lads through and need to keep the current senior panel motivated and competitive. That takes hard work, lots of it and probably very little thanks and recognition. A top class forward or two would speed up the process.
Progression from U21 to senior is not a given. Every county is in the same boat, not just us. Teams like Galway and Roscommon are not progressing as fast as they'd like. Look at Cork. Unlike us they had the platform of an All Ireland Senior Football Championship winning team. They then had the same run at U21 as us. 4 provincials in a row, one final appearance, no All Ireland. They are struggling and they are a massive county. It's not so easy."
Oh we've definitely been lifted - I don't think anyone can dispute that. ?It's probably about 18 months ago now, but I did write a pretty long-winded post pointing out the same thing as yourself - that this wave of u21 teams would set a base upon which another successful wave would be needed in order to challenge for all-irelands. We're certainly a long way from that, but Ulster should have been closer after 5 years of building IMO.

As for the other teams you mentioned; Galway and Roscommon played out a Connaught final this year, with Galway having taken a bigger scalp than anything in Ulster.

Cork are certainly a different story - not sure what is going on behind the scenes there - probably the county who are underachieving more that anyone else right now.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 29/07/2016 12:04:26    1891926

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Peter Harte, Ronan O'Neill, Tiernan McCann, Ryan McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, etc. . .none of those have won what our guys have won at underage, despite being the same age.

cavanman47 (Cavan)

Paddy McBrearty - 1 All Ireland senior title & 3 Ulster senior championships & 2 Ulster Young Footballer of the Year Awards, while U21
Ryan McHugh - 1Ulster senior championship & All stars young footballer of the year, while still U21
Peter Harte - All Ireland minor winner 2007, and Ulster senior championship winner 2010, while still U21
Ronan O Neill - Ulster & All Ireland minor winner 2010

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 29/07/2016 13:18:59    1891974

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Yeah Cavanman I suppose we'll see. You may or may not be right in what you say. I wouldn't say Tyrone have been necessarily improving every year. A lot of their fans wanted Harte gone a few years ago. I would say they stagnated for a few years but stayed patient and a new crop of talent gave them a shot in the arm.
There's a lot of assumption when people say Hyland is weak tactically- is it wise to assume we have superior players? Doesn't matter how good tactically you are if players can't execute them. But he got us up through the divisions ok. He had no problems at club or junior level. Was that because Kerry came up to Portloaise to throw an AI final? On the leveler playing field that was U21 he achieved plenty and even got one over the lauded Jim McGuinness. There's truths and half truths in everything. But some things can't be denied. We lack quality scoring forwards, we lack a free taker, we could do with a high quality CHB and our Senior Club Championship is below the average standard. History is not enough of a reason to be basing our expectations on."
We lack scoring forwards you say??????? Well our tactics don't allow for scoring forwards. Do they? What's the point in playing Johnston 60 metres from goal looking for scraps . The tactics we use are ancient. When did you ever see Bernard brogan out in midfield looking for ball. The forwards are there..... THEY NOT BEING USED RIGHT. That's a management problem.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 29/07/2016 15:31:36    1892019

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "We lack scoring forwards you say??????? Well our tactics don't allow for scoring forwards. Do they? What's the point in playing Johnston 60 metres from goal looking for scraps . The tactics we use are ancient. When did you ever see Bernard brogan out in midfield looking for ball. The forwards are there..... THEY NOT BEING USED RIGHT. That's a management problem."
Spot on...we don't need forwards we need new management

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 29/07/2016 22:05:41    1892136

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "We lack scoring forwards you say??????? Well our tactics don't allow for scoring forwards. Do they? What's the point in playing Johnston 60 metres from goal looking for scraps . The tactics we use are ancient. When did you ever see Bernard brogan out in midfield looking for ball. The forwards are there..... THEY NOT BEING USED RIGHT. That's a management problem."
We lack scoring forwards you say??????? Well our tactics don't allow for scoring forwards. Do they? What's the point in playing Johnston 60 metres from goal looking for scraps . The tactics we use are ancient. When did you ever see Bernard brogan out in midfield looking for ball. The forwards are there..... THEY NOT BEING USED RIGHT. That's a management problem.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:520 - 29/07/2016 15:31:36

Tomsmith here

Aye hould on a minute youse lot that are calling for Terry's head, we the Imperial knowalls are of the opinion that Terry has done a great job in 2016 , got us promoted , took Tyrone to replay, we are in Division 1 on merit and youse are calling for Terence Hyland to resign. Youse are an odious crown of Cavan supporters. Let Terry stay and if all goes well we will take a few scalps in 2017 in the league

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 29/07/2016 22:47:36    1892148

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Rid ourselves of Hyland and his terrible style of play or we will go into a downward spiral that will be hard to halt... He plays too many favourites and that is the sure sign of a bad management... Bye bye Hyland ( no Mr )

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 30/07/2016 17:50:20    1892353

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Replying To Sean.66:  "Rid ourselves of Hyland and his terrible style of play or we will go into a downward spiral that will be hard to halt... He plays too many favourites and that is the sure sign of a bad management... Bye bye Hyland ( no Mr )"
Rid ourselves of Hyland and his terrible style of play or we will go into a downward spiral that will be hard to halt... He plays too many favourites and that is the sure sign of a bad management... Bye bye Hyland ( no Mr )

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts:45 - 30/07/2016 17:50:20 18923
I don't think it's your call if Mr Hyland stay's or not. The minor job is up for grabs I suppose John Brady must be a huge favorite for this position.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 30/07/2016 20:37:52    1892483

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