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An emotional reply to the though of an outsider
...should we stick with an insider and the now normal selection policies
Then blame all else
McManus all star each year Monaghan won Ulster ... also one player
On balance are Monaghan 1-20 too far to reach for what we could select 1-20?
Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 65 - 18/07/2016 21:56:38
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Jimjo - Your previous post made as much sense as Tomsmiths!
deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 19/07/2016 09:44:13
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I'm very dissapointed with our Championship exits and more especially the 2nd half collapse and last Saturdays in particular.
There is an old saying "If it aint broke, dont fix it" and that certainly applies to Cavan this year.
I have always been a fan of Terrys and he has brought an awful lot of pride back to a county that was nearly at rock bottom. After a very good Lge where we took off the schackles in Navan and our young players in particular stood up I was very optimistic. Gearoid had become a very effective centre forward and Seanie was back and feeding off Givney and the the other running backs and forwards. Mossy had found a great ally in young Liam Buchanaan and Killian Clarke was showing what a fantastic footballer he was at full back. Argue was an effective link man/ wing forward . With young Faulkner and Jason in the corners one famous Cavan footballer of bygone days remarked to me after a Sat game that we had found a very talented fullback line. And I was thrilled we had suddenly found a settled team !!!
Lo and behold what does our MANAGEMENT do? We dismantle our full back line and with one foul sweep out go Faulkner, Mc Loughlin , Ciaran Brady. And Killian Clarke became the wandering minstrel - or effectively a jack-of-all trades. Niall Murray was dropped as well. Four or five of our tight six defensive unit was gone and "more experienced" but clearly it has been proven, less effective defenders were drafted in. Bonkers !! Would Dublin do it? Would any of the big counties do it? No they would not.
Another major fault in the championship is the slowness to make changes when some players are tiring. On Sat Gerry Smith and Liam Buchanan came on with a minute or two to go. Same in both games against Tyrone. Lads its now a 20 man team game with subs introduced at the 45 or 50 min mark.
I read some people saying we dont have the talent. Bonkers again !! Yes we have probably the most talented squad in the last 30 or 40 years. I was at every Lge game and champ game this year and for a long many years as well so I know what is available to us. The young players if treated properly will bring success to Cavan. I think Terry has brought them as far as he can , so it is time for a new face. I'm sure there are plenty of young committed managers who would relish working with this squad. And I dont mean the usual names being thrown around on this web site.
So Gerry Brady and the County Board have a big decision to make. It needs to be done in a calm independent manner and not at the behest of any small section of the co. board or group of senior players.
BreffniDub (None) - Posts: 377 - 19/07/2016 11:22:43
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Replying To BreffniDub: "I'm very dissapointed with our Championship exits and more especially the 2nd half collapse and last Saturdays in particular.
There is an old saying "If it aint broke, dont fix it" and that certainly applies to Cavan this year.
I have always been a fan of Terrys and he has brought an awful lot of pride back to a county that was nearly at rock bottom. After a very good Lge where we took off the schackles in Navan and our young players in particular stood up I was very optimistic. Gearoid had become a very effective centre forward and Seanie was back and feeding off Givney and the the other running backs and forwards. Mossy had found a great ally in young Liam Buchanaan and Killian Clarke was showing what a fantastic footballer he was at full back. Argue was an effective link man/ wing forward . With young Faulkner and Jason in the corners one famous Cavan footballer of bygone days remarked to me after a Sat game that we had found a very talented fullback line. And I was thrilled we had suddenly found a settled team !!!
Lo and behold what does our MANAGEMENT do? We dismantle our full back line and with one foul sweep out go Faulkner, Mc Loughlin , Ciaran Brady. And Killian Clarke became the wandering minstrel - or effectively a jack-of-all trades. Niall Murray was dropped as well. Four or five of our tight six defensive unit was gone and "more experienced" but clearly it has been proven, less effective defenders were drafted in. Bonkers !! Would Dublin do it? Would any of the big counties do it? No they would not.
Another major fault in the championship is the slowness to make changes when some players are tiring. On Sat Gerry Smith and Liam Buchanan came on with a minute or two to go. Same in both games against Tyrone. Lads its now a 20 man team game with subs introduced at the 45 or 50 min mark.
I read some people saying we dont have the talent. Bonkers again !! Yes we have probably the most talented squad in the last 30 or 40 years. I was at every Lge game and champ game this year and for a long many years as well so I know what is available to us. The young players if treated properly will bring success to Cavan. I think Terry has brought them as far as he can , so it is time for a new face. I'm sure there are plenty of young committed managers who would relish working with this squad. And I dont mean the usual names being thrown around on this web site.
So Gerry Brady and the County Board have a big decision to make. It needs to be done in a calm independent manner and not at the behest of any small section of the co. board or group of senior players." If it was the most talented squad in the last 30/40 years cavan would have a marquee forward. Not having to recall Johnston after a 5 year absence.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2832 - 19/07/2016 11:58:25
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An emotional reply to the though of an outsider
...should we stick with an insider and the now normal selection policies
Then blame all else
McManus all star each year Monaghan won Ulster ... also one player
On balance are Monaghan 1-20 too far to reach for what we could select 1-20?
Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 65 - 19/07/2016 11:58:51
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Replying To FoolsGold: "If it was the most talented squad in the last 30/40 years cavan would have a marquee forward. Not having to recall Johnston after a 5 year absence." Why, what marquee forward have we produced in the past 30 years who was genuinly better than Johnson? (I accept that his best days are long past but I've seen him take Graham Canty to the cleaners when Canty was one of the best players in the country)
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 19/07/2016 12:16:41
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Replying To BreffniDub: "I'm very dissapointed with our Championship exits and more especially the 2nd half collapse and last Saturdays in particular.
There is an old saying "If it aint broke, dont fix it" and that certainly applies to Cavan this year.
I have always been a fan of Terrys and he has brought an awful lot of pride back to a county that was nearly at rock bottom. After a very good Lge where we took off the schackles in Navan and our young players in particular stood up I was very optimistic. Gearoid had become a very effective centre forward and Seanie was back and feeding off Givney and the the other running backs and forwards. Mossy had found a great ally in young Liam Buchanaan and Killian Clarke was showing what a fantastic footballer he was at full back. Argue was an effective link man/ wing forward . With young Faulkner and Jason in the corners one famous Cavan footballer of bygone days remarked to me after a Sat game that we had found a very talented fullback line. And I was thrilled we had suddenly found a settled team !!!
Lo and behold what does our MANAGEMENT do? We dismantle our full back line and with one foul sweep out go Faulkner, Mc Loughlin , Ciaran Brady. And Killian Clarke became the wandering minstrel - or effectively a jack-of-all trades. Niall Murray was dropped as well. Four or five of our tight six defensive unit was gone and "more experienced" but clearly it has been proven, less effective defenders were drafted in. Bonkers !! Would Dublin do it? Would any of the big counties do it? No they would not.
Another major fault in the championship is the slowness to make changes when some players are tiring. On Sat Gerry Smith and Liam Buchanan came on with a minute or two to go. Same in both games against Tyrone. Lads its now a 20 man team game with subs introduced at the 45 or 50 min mark.
I read some people saying we dont have the talent. Bonkers again !! Yes we have probably the most talented squad in the last 30 or 40 years. I was at every Lge game and champ game this year and for a long many years as well so I know what is available to us. The young players if treated properly will bring success to Cavan. I think Terry has brought them as far as he can , so it is time for a new face. I'm sure there are plenty of young committed managers who would relish working with this squad. And I dont mean the usual names being thrown around on this web site.
So Gerry Brady and the County Board have a big decision to make. It needs to be done in a calm independent manner and not at the behest of any small section of the co. board or group of senior players." Explain to me why being the most talented Cavan panel of the last 30-40 years is an any way indicative of quality?
The question is- how does the current crop measure up to Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan in that order for Ulster?
Or Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal at national level?
MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 19/07/2016 12:45:11
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Sorry lads, but I'm guessing that if you think this was the most talented squad in 30/40 yrs, then you've only just started watching Cavan Football!! Imagine Mossy Cor trying to catch a ball against Stephen King, if you were to pick a Cavan Team over the last 40 years, Johnston would be the only one that would potentially make the panel.
A fine committed bunch of lads without question, but talented, I don't think so! They are limited and the last 2/3 years have shown that.
deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 19/07/2016 12:57:07
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Replying To deanmartin: "Sorry lads, but I'm guessing that if you think this was the most talented squad in 30/40 yrs, then you've only just started watching Cavan Football!! Imagine Mossy Cor trying to catch a ball against Stephen King, if you were to pick a Cavan Team over the last 40 years, Johnston would be the only one that would potentially make the panel.
A fine committed bunch of lads without question, but talented, I don't think so! They are limited and the last 2/3 years have shown that." deanmartin
Johnston???
you are joking right? or delusional?
he can score heavily in club football or against poor teams...never anywhere to be seen when the standard ups and we need it
he has always been like this ... even in white!
even recently jack showed more in shorter exposure against tyrone and derry
Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 65 - 19/07/2016 13:24:04
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Replying To deanmartin: "Sorry lads, but I'm guessing that if you think this was the most talented squad in 30/40 yrs, then you've only just started watching Cavan Football!! Imagine Mossy Cor trying to catch a ball against Stephen King, if you were to pick a Cavan Team over the last 40 years, Johnston would be the only one that would potentially make the panel.
A fine committed bunch of lads without question, but talented, I don't think so! They are limited and the last 2/3 years have shown that." What a laugh. Cavan of the 70s and 80s were rubbish and won nothing in a rubbish province. Take of the rose tinted glasses. I'd say mossy Corr would be 10 times fitter and stronger than King ever was too.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 19/07/2016 13:52:12
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Regardless of whether or not you are a fan of Terry,it seems to be a matter of common sense now that a new manager is appointed whether he be an insider or outsider.This is the best chance of keeping things fresh and keeping the panel together.The players who feel that they have got little or no opportunity over the past are unlikely to continue to commit if they feel hard done by.Are managers of the calibre of Malachy O'Rourke,James Horan available and if so could they be paid if interested?.The people who say that the players are not there need to be aware of the number of Tyrone u21s from 2011 and 2012 who currently play for Tyrone seniors and who were beaten by our u21s in 2011 and 2012.Also outside managers are no guarantee of anything, look at Roscommon with Kevin McStay and then look at Galway when they had big Joe Kiernan and now when they have one of their own.There is a certain amount of luck involved regarding the timing and the talent available in a lot of cases.As good a manager as Mickey Harte is,that's their first Ulster in 6 years and first u21 all Ireland last year in 13 years.I still think there is at least an Ulster title in the present crop of players.Any sugggestions for inside managers ?It is easy to name any amount of outside managers,so don't bother. Surely with all the posters on here, constructive reccomendations could be made,anyone know of anyone that might be prepared to do it and who is prepared to put in the massive time and energy put in over the last few years,first requirement is to be thick skinned with a hard kneck as you are guaranteed a good slating most of the time. The salary is negotiable.
celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 19/07/2016 14:26:55
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quote of the year must go to Fredflint - "Mossy Corry would be 10 times fitter and stronger than Stephen King, and the Cavan Teams of the 70's and 80s were rubbish".
Go on Fred, tell us another joke...
As for Jimbo - its no coincidence, Seanie coming back, Cavan became more attacking and we gained promotion....Jack Brady, a prospect, has proved nothing yet.
deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 19/07/2016 14:59:22
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Replying To deanmartin: "quote of the year must go to Fredflint - "Mossy Corry would be 10 times fitter and stronger than Stephen King, and the Cavan Teams of the 70's and 80s were rubbish".
Go on Fred, tell us another joke...
As for Jimbo - its no coincidence, Seanie coming back, Cavan became more attacking and we gained promotion....Jack Brady, a prospect, has proved nothing yet." All offense but its an insult to the great Stephen King to compare these two players.
Mossy is a decent work horse but King was up there with one of the finest midfielders of his generation.
Steady_Eddie (Cavan) - Posts: 75 - 19/07/2016 15:16:54
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Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer.
celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 19/07/2016 16:10:01
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Replying To celt2018: "Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer." I think Pierson had the ability but perhaps not the dedication, and I think Johnson is the best of those forwards you've named above.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 19/07/2016 17:16:33
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Replying To celt2018: "Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer." Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer.
celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts:112 - 19/07/2016 16:10:01 1886440
No space for two gents of the game Charlie Clarke and Pierce McKenna. What does a player have to do be rated in Cavan.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 19/07/2016 17:52:33
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Replying To celt2018: "Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer." Lads,lads...mother of god..yous would wanna wake up. All of these lads were great in their time but wouldn't come within an asses roar of the current team. Maybe Jim Reilly purely because of his athleticism
The game has change beyond belief and even though you's cant see it and we are producing the right type of player for the type of game that is being played at the moment. We may not like it but that what we are dealing with.
Take McVeety for instance. He would get on most teams in Ireland. Now if you are sitting there laughing your head off and thinking "aah he doesn't score much as half forward" or "I know he drops back but he doesnt hard tackle enough", you don't understand the modern game. They use this word called transition lately and that what McVeety, Moynagh and Dunne are for cavan. They carry ball through the midfield on the break from defence to attack. They are not wing half forwards or centrehalf backs because those positions don't exist.
Lads, i would love to see a red haired Fintan cahill leaving his man on his a**e and bursting the net again, but that time is long gone because he would never get a one on one with his marker..
ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 19/07/2016 18:05:04
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The team of 97 were very good but carried a couple of players too.. The game now is totally different ( and not in a good way ) with no player marking his man at all... In 97 it was 15 on 15 nearly all the time.., I don't think they would be as fit as the current team but had far better ball winners and far tougher men... And in 97 we didn't have to endure the idiotic sight of goalkeepers trapesing up the field to take free kicks tha Ronan Carolan would put over with his eyes closed.. Crowds were going to games and enjoying what they seen win lose or draw unlike now...
Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 19/07/2016 18:08:45
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Replying To fredflint: "What a laugh. Cavan of the 70s and 80s were rubbish and won nothing in a rubbish province. Take of the rose tinted glasses. I'd say mossy Corr would be 10 times fitter and stronger than King ever was too." Cavan contested 3 Ulster finals in the 70s and 80s. Wise up Fredflint . Comparing MC to SK is an insult to SK. I never seen MC catch a ball like SK did.. Or place a pass either. MC would run all day but no football in him compared to SK.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 19/07/2016 18:57:38
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Replying To seanorinn: "Natural forwards are very hard to find,if we find any they usually are very small.The best forwards we have had in the past 35 years are Derek McDonnell,Larry Reilly,Jason Reilly,Fintan Cahill,Seanie Johnston,John Brady plus Ronan Carolan and Donal Donohoe for frees.
Who have i left out here.There were a few very good other forwards who did not commit so i won't name them.The pure powerhouse midfielders and top players were Dermot McCabe,Adge King,Stephen King but would they suit the modern game where big high fielding midfielders are often nullified with big engined runners preferred,i wouldnt like to see Stephen running after Mattie Donnelly.In defence we produced top class players such as Damien Reilly,Gerry Sheridan(BB) and Jim Reilly.Over a long period we have not produced many that you could call top drawer.
celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts:112 - 19/07/2016 16:10:01 1886440
No space for two gents of the game Charlie Clarke and Pierce McKenna. What does a player have to do be rated in Cavan." Ah here lad!
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 19/07/2016 19:42:15
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