Cavan Forum

Tyrone v Cavan Ulster Semi Final Replay

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Replying To Breffnisbest:  "Who do the winners of Cavan and Carlow play and who is on that side of the draw?"
I believe it's Sligo and the winners of Meath v Derry and Clare v Laois.

Dr.who (Cavan) - Posts: 24 - 05/07/2016 15:06:31    1876838

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Replying To fredflint:  "Yeah Terry Hates Kingscourt players, that why he had Alan Clarke as his captain. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about from last Sunday without making up rubbish like this.

I think basically the two goals came from two really poor turnovers. After that panic set in and that resulted in more silly stuff. For me it lacked leaders on the pitch to give the message to not panic and chip away at the scoreboard. The game was over at HT, the 2nd half can be discounted.

One big question is why no Johnston? What is going on there, tactical reasons as Terry said is a cover for something else surely. Did someone get the hump that they weren't starting?"
Fredflint maybe you should ask Terry why Seanie wasn't playing ?

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 05/07/2016 15:38:02    1876857

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Fredflint maybe you should ask Terry why Seanie wasn't playing ?"
Any word on Niall Mc Dermott fitness /injury. Real shame that he has missed out on our League promotion and Championship games. Hope the news is good and that he could make an appearance on Saturday evening. Would like to see Paul O'Connor get a start as I thought he played well in earlier games, scored some great goals and points.

Western Blue (Cavan) - Posts: 70 - 05/07/2016 17:53:37    1876935

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Fredflint maybe you should ask Terry why Seanie wasn't playing ?"
Terry is too much of a gentleman to air his dirty laundry with a stranger like me. I'll be very interested to see how starts next Saturday.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 05/07/2016 18:01:56    1876940

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One big question is why no Johnston? What is going on there, tactical reasons as Terry said is a cover for something else surely. Did someone get the hump that they weren't starting?


The word out there is that he was dropped for playing golf in the Cavan Gaels Golf classic on Friday!!

evano11 (Cavan) - Posts: 265 - 05/07/2016 18:27:41    1876953

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What posters seem to be missing here is that Tyrone scored 5 goals and should have scored another 6. In the final quarter, they opted to take points when they had clear goal overlaps opportunities. They resembled a racehorse trainer protecting the horse's handicap. Apart from perhaps the Kilkenny football team (apologies to Kilkenny folk), who else do you remember conceding 11 goals in one game, which is what could have happened to us?

Despite this, I agree with Ponger, that we were well in the game until Peter Harte's goals killed our chances. From that point, the players on the field chased the game, left the back door wide open, and management failed to control them. Yes, we got late scores, but they were virtually handed to us. What's most irritating about that is that from 15 mins into the league div 2 final, we have had the same player marking Peter Harte and he has visibly struggled against him on each of the three occasions. He's not even the best defender for his club, so how is he considered good enough to mark Peter Harte last Sunday? Sadly, the player that could have marked Harte is so far down the Cavan pecking order he's not even being mentioned anymore. To add injury to insult literally, Terry brought on an injured player who hasn't trained in two months.

If you watched Cavan training, you should have noticed that some of our backs were getting regular roastings from our own non-starters, yet they get their places? What direction are the management looking at during training? Having finished the league with a winning formula, the management proceeded to dismantle it and put out the same team ( bar Ronan Flanagan and DJ Reilly ) that started the championship for the previous two years, and they also failed to perform. Posters here have been commenting on it for years, - the Favourites.

Yet despite all this, the management team will be returned again next year because they got us to Div 1 and that will be good enough for the County Board. Looking at the sideline, the contrast was stark. Peter Donnelly and Micky Harte v Terry and his lads. It was never a fair fight. They used the previous two weeks to devise a successful strategy to counter our scud missiles while we sleepwalked into the game.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 05/07/2016 18:49:44    1876965

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Terry has taken us as far as he can. He can do no more. This has been proven time and time again when we play the big teams.
No harm to Terry as he has done his best.
We need someone new to take us to the next level. That is obvious."
I'm afraid I don't agree , we changed managers like mad before terry and we fell deeper and deeper into trouble ,if we changed managers and ended back down to div three what would you think then ? And that's a reality and could happen very easy , I do agree when were loosing battles Terry doesn't do enough to change things around or bring in subs early enough, but he can only get better and learn from it, and its not guaranteed that a change of management will make us better there's a bigger chance it could have a negative affect on the county team the next level could be a lower one.

bisto kid (Cavan) - Posts: 492 - 05/07/2016 19:34:19    1876981

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Replying To Breffnisbest:  "Who do the winners of Cavan and Carlow play and who is on that side of the draw?"
We are on the A side of the draw. The 2a games are:

Cavan v Carlow
Derry v Meath
Laois v Clare
Sligo have already beaten Leitrim and are into round 3.

The 2 teams who come out of these 7 meet either Tipp or the Connaught runner-up. Get through that and we play Kerry of the Connaught Champions.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 05/07/2016 20:09:24    1876996

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Replying To fredflint:  "Yeah Terry Hates Kingscourt players, that why he had Alan Clarke as his captain. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about from last Sunday without making up rubbish like this.

I think basically the two goals came from two really poor turnovers. After that panic set in and that resulted in more silly stuff. For me it lacked leaders on the pitch to give the message to not panic and chip away at the scoreboard. The game was over at HT, the 2nd half can be discounted.

One big question is why no Johnston? What is going on there, tactical reasons as Terry said is a cover for something else surely. Did someone get the hump that they weren't starting?"
Sean o Rinn we had 5 chances to beat Tyrone . So who does the buck stop with? Watch an ageing Donegal team beat Tyrone in the Ulster final . They won't need 5 chances. I'm not here to slag off the management , that's an easy thing to do after yesterday's result. Terry needs to realise he needs experienced help( and I'm not talking anyone within the county) he needs A winner to help him . There no experience in that management group to change the system during the game or at half time .
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:465 - 04/07/2016 13:07:56

Do you really think Donegal will beat Tyrone I don't think so.
Tyrone are on a mission and thats to win the Anglo Celt cup and Sam and I think they have the ammunition to go all the way. I have a gut feeling this is Micky's last year and he wants to go out in glory. He will win the Anglo Celt thats for sure and I feel if they lose Sam it will be because they got complacent. Micky brought two new players into the game it shows the quality of the man and his vision of quality.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 05/07/2016 20:30:08    1877008

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Replying To evano11:  "One big question is why no Johnston? What is going on there, tactical reasons as Terry said is a cover for something else surely. Did someone get the hump that they weren't starting?


The word out there is that he was dropped for playing golf in the Cavan Gaels Golf classic on Friday!!"
Well if a player is dropped for playing golf he better off away from it. The rest of the lads would have been better playing golf on Sunday Terry included

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 05/07/2016 20:39:31    1877013

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Well if a player is dropped for playing golf he better off away from it. The rest of the lads would have been better playing golf on Sunday Terry included"
A lot of comments and opinions about bringing an experience All Ireland winning manager / or ex All Ireland player with the credential to help us move to the next level but nobody has come up with a name.
We just panicked after the 2 Goals went in because it was Tyrone.
No Manager change, Terry Hyland is as good Manager as is there is left in the Championship. The players need to be left in a room and put their hands up and shame and blame and start next again next Saturday with the aim to get to us the semi Finals , Yes, fresh players needed against Carlow and no jumping on planes to the States or jumping/suckling . We have an good squad of committed young men, show us the way to Croke Park in August.

Western Blue (Cavan) - Posts: 70 - 06/07/2016 02:14:25    1877093

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Replying To cavanman47:  "We are on the A side of the draw. The 2a games are:

Cavan v Carlow
Derry v Meath
Laois v Clare
Sligo have already beaten Leitrim and are into round 3.

The 2 teams who come out of these 7 meet either Tipp or the Connaught runner-up. Get through that and we play Kerry of the Connaught Champions."
so our opponents might conceivably be

Carlow
Meath
Tipperary

and then play Roscommon AGAIN for a semi-final slot.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 06/07/2016 04:03:30    1877098

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What happened Sunday was that our lads have gone from an all out defence strategy to all out attack,pure naivety.The players did not know who was to attack and who was to stay back.Surely the players and management should have a system devised at this stage which is a happy medium between both systems of play where players know when to cover.After all if players train 4/5 nights a week for 30 weeks surely they should have this ironed out by now.Tyrone simply could not believe their luck in this day and age.Why on earth are Mattie Donnelly and Peter Harte not properly marked,i think two players need top be assigned special duties.Also Rory Dunne was clearly not up to championship match fitness when brought for a run around Clones by a clever 33 year old.Also Mickey Harte bases all his teams on massive pace at half back,this needs targeting when playing Tyrone(remember Philip Jordan & Davy Harte),same again with Tiernan McCann and Ronan McNabb, these need to be matched with the most pace available.No different v Donegal,Ryan McHugh and Frank McGlynn at half back.Also interesting that it is said Cavan beat most of these Tyrone lads at u21 level,can somebody do a bit of research and see if that is the case.I know Justin McMahon,Colm Cavanagh,Sean Kavanagh,Cathal McCarron were not there at 21s for a start.If they had say 9 players that we have beaten at u21 level,why do they look better conditioned,fitter and faster than we do now. Surely we will never win four Ulster u21s in a row again so the time is now and the next 2 years to make the most of what we have.

celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 06/07/2016 10:22:57    1877154

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Replying To s goldrick:  "so our opponents might conceivably be

Carlow
Meath
Tipperary

and then play Roscommon AGAIN for a semi-final slot."
Yup, a very possible route for us.
Not 100% certain when the QF draw is, but given the fixture pile-up, if it's made before Tipp play their qualifier, then they'll be kept away from Kerry.

Meath are the best team in our side of the draw, apart from ourselves. I'd fancy us to best the loser of the Connaught final, whether it be Galway or Roscommon, but think we'd have our work cut out to beat the winner - if that makes sense.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 06/07/2016 10:52:25    1877180

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2011 Ulster U-21 Final
Cavan 1-10 0-10 Tyrone

Tyrone: N Morgan; R Pickering, R McNamee, F McQuaid, N Sludden, G Teague, S McKenna, N McKenna [0-2], R Donnelly [0-1], P McNeice, P Harte [0-1], D McNulty, K Coney, M Donnelly [0-1], R O'Neil [0-4].

Cavan: A O'Mara; M Leddy, O Minagh, D Tighe, K Meehan, D Barkey, M Brady, G McKiernan [0-2], F Flanagan, N Smith, N Murray [1-0], B Reilly [0-2], J Brady [0-4], N McDermott, P Leddy.

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 06/07/2016 10:55:31    1877187

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2012 Ulster U-21 Final
Cavan 1-10 0-10 Tyrone

Tyrone: D McAnenly, B Tierney (0-1), D McNally, HP McGeary, N Sludden
(0-1), C Clarke, T McCann, H Og Conlan (0-1), S Warnock, S Tierney
(0-1), T Canavan (0-1, f), R Donnelly (0-2, 2f), D McCurry (0-3, 3f),
C McAliskey, C Daly.

Cavan: C Gilsenan, F Flanagan, K Brady, J McLoughlin, D Sexton (1-0,
pen), C Moynagh, M Brady, P Leddy, K Clarke, J Dillon (0-1, C Conroy,
R Lynch (0-1), J Brady (0-3, 2f), K Tierney (0-5, 5f), N O'Donnell.

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 06/07/2016 11:00:53    1877190

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Looks like Tyrone's under 21s have matured better than ours.
Have we done something wrong or are we just expecting something to soon.
I suppose you have to remember the quality senior players Tyrone have to help the younger players progress coupled with their recent successes ie the last 15 years.
Unfortunately we don't have that luxury and Terry has had a blank canvas to start with.

desagov (Cavan) - Posts: 209 - 06/07/2016 12:29:05    1877256

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Replying To bisto kid:  "I'm afraid I don't agree , we changed managers like mad before terry and we fell deeper and deeper into trouble ,if we changed managers and ended back down to div three what would you think then ? And that's a reality and could happen very easy , I do agree when were loosing battles Terry doesn't do enough to change things around or bring in subs early enough, but he can only get better and learn from it, and its not guaranteed that a change of management will make us better there's a bigger chance it could have a negative affect on the county team the next level could be a lower one."
So you are just happy with the status quo?
You seem happy just to run on the spot and are not prepared to take a chance on moving forward and winning things. You are more afraid of going backwards.
That is a cop-out for me.

Terry has had ample chances to prove himself against the likes of Tyrone, Monaghan and Kerry i.e. teams that were rated higher than Cavan. He has beaten none of them when it mattered.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 06/07/2016 13:08:11    1877275

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Replying To desagov:  "Looks like Tyrone's under 21s have matured better than ours.
Have we done something wrong or are we just expecting something to soon.
I suppose you have to remember the quality senior players Tyrone have to help the younger players progress coupled with their recent successes ie the last 15 years.
Unfortunately we don't have that luxury and Terry has had a blank canvas to start with."
Tyrone use the u21s to develop individual players. They win lots of titles as a byproduct.
We used the grade to win titles only. The focus was all on systems, subverting the players.

My worry is that all the players we are going to get from the u21 conver belt have now been incorporated into the senior panel but it still lacks the quality to make a big breakthrough. We have been eclipsed by Tyrone.

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 06/07/2016 14:12:38    1877320

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Cavan 21s who beat Tyrone in 2011 and 2012 on senior panel:A O Mara,Gearoid McKiernan,Fergal Flanagan,Niall Murray,Jack Brady,Niall McDermott,Killian Brady,Killian Clarke,Conor Moynagh,Jason McLoughlin,Chris Conroy plus Ml Argue,Gerard Smith, Dara McAveety,Liam Buchanan in 2013 plus Givney and McEnroe from 2010 u21s who lost to Donegal.Thats at least 16 u21s from 2010-2014.Other 21s who were but are not now on senior panel are Barry Reilly,Joe Dillon,Declan McKiernan,Conor Gilsenan,Turlough Mooney,Niall Smith,Kevin Tierney,Kevin Meehan,Damien Barkey,Packie Leddy.Thats 27 u21sfrom 2010-2014.
The Tyrone players who were involved in the the u21s in 11 and 12 and also playing for Tyrone seniors now are Niall Morgan,Ronan McNamee,Niall Sludden,Richard Donnelly,Peter Harte,Ronan O'Neill,Barry Tierney,Tiernan McCann,Darren McCurry,Conor McAliskey. The M Donnelly in Tyrone u21 lineout is Mark Donnelly,not Mattie i think.Tyrone appear to have 9 starters from u21s plus the 4 very experienced lads plus Mattie Donnelly.Going on last Sunday,they appear to have progressed further than us in terms of intensity,system of play,conditioning. What have they done that we have'nt.

celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 06/07/2016 14:20:58    1877329

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