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Replying To cavanman47: "If I thought Mickey could stay on and bring in a new backroom team, I'd be happy to let him have a go at Division 2 next year. But I just don't see that happening.
Yes they've just been promoted, and I was never too bothered with winning a Tailteann Cup. But the manner of the loss to Armagh is the clincher for me. They were there to be beaten that day and look where they are now vs where we are.
Ulster was wide open this year and we made a paltry attempt on it. Something has to give." Absolutely agree
ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 20/06/2023 08:50:50
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Replying To williesboy: "Be mad to get rid of the manager. He got ye back to division 2 which was the main target for Cavan. Yes disappointing to lose out to Derry but he is the right man for the job." The way we're playing at the moment, we will do well to hold our Div 2 status. There is a lot more in this group of players if they were encouraged to attack with overlaps and breach defences. We go up to their cover and stop. This style of play not get us to a higher level and might send us backwards. It's not so much a change of Mgnt we need as a change of style/strategy.
ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 20/06/2023 08:56:42
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I will be very surprised if Mickey Graham stays on … I think the players need a new voice at this stage and the panel needs fresh faces… he is far too loyal to certain players…. We were 3pts down on Saturday and he replaces a forward with Moynagh…that just about sums it up… The players haven't covered themselves in glory either… Since that 2020 Ulster win they have gone completely backwards… That's very unusual for a team that had just won the Ulster Championship … Regardless of who is manager next season they have to get away from this turgid slow build up play , backwards and lateral movement and passing…. If they don't they soon won't have anybody at all at matches…" I never expected us to win the Tailteann Cup as I felt we weren't playing well despite knocking up big scores.
We were porous up the middle even against London.
The 4 teams left in the Tailteann have all shown a big improvement since their league form but we seem to stay at kinda the same level.
They're a staleness there and probably difficult to pinpoint the exact cause.
I do genuinely like Mickey and I think his heart is in Cavan Football 100%.
I'd question the Selectors he has surrounded himself with.
Selectors or Right hand men nowadays play such a vital role.
Look at the improvement in Cork since Kevin Walsh went there? Cian o Neill with Galway , Rochford with Mayo , Rainbow with Kildare. All good managers in their own right.
If Mickey stays on he needs a big ex Manager with experience with him. A Canavan orA James McCartan or Malachy O Rourke. Someone who's been there done that.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 20/06/2023 09:53:11
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Replying To Fontofwisdom: "You said "I would not be foolish enough to go to see that rubbish" yet you paid to watch it on gaago. Not only is that ironically foolish, its pretty sad too. Since you 'knew' it would be rubbish, you watched your own county play in the hope that their performance would justify your belief in how useless they were. That's outrageous, in my opinion. Lads like you are more harmful to my county than the world's worst management team. My county team are not rubbish. You and those who share that belief can stay at home, you're no loss!" I have a fire stick so thankfully it cost me nothing to watch it…. I wasn't watching it hoping my team would loose and for you to say that just shows how ignorant and deluded you are… It's people like you who are doing football in Cavan a lot of harm by applauding and accepting pure incompetence… When someone or something is wrong it should be called out… not accepted like what you do…. Cavan will never improve with the likes of you telling them they are doing a great job…. Call it for what it is and take your head out of the sand…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 20/06/2023 10:17:22
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Thought a lot about Saturday's game before i posted anything and just got a chance to read some of the usual polarized opinions on the forum. everyone is entitled to their opinion but we have some posters continuously completely negative on the Team & management who only seem happy when a defeat proves them correct and then we have the blind loyal supporters who seemingly cannot comprehend the dire tripe that this team & management have produced since winning the Ulster Champ in 2020.
Where do you start with a balanced opinion on the performance and indeed the overall situation the senior team is currently in?? firstly Micky Graham was a breathe of fresh air when he took over in 2019 leading us to a Ulster final & whatever the unusual circumstances in 2020 he became only the second manager in over 50 years to bring home the Anglo Celt cup. this achievement will always be recognized by Cavan supporters.
however my sincere opinion is that Micky should now step down as since winning Ulster the team has stagnated alarmingly resulting in consecutive relegations to Div 4 and despite bouncing back to Div 2 next year there appears to be a inability to raise performance levels for big games such as Tailteann final last year, Armagh game this year and last Saturday against Down. in my opinion this is due to:
1. pathethic negative style of play that is demoralizing supporters & players alike, resulting in reduced attendances and players dropping off the panel. to win big games the team has to be capable of scoring goals and again we failed to do so against Armagh & Down. also despite being defensive we are totally exposed at the back and Down could have scored 4/5 more goals if they were ruthless enough
2. blind loyalty to a select group of players that seemingly peaked in 2020 and have been diminishing yearly since but continue to be picked and indeed left on the field for the full duration of games when it is obvious that they should be replaced like last Saturday
3. a reluctance to introduce new players to the team to give them experience. this was particularly highlighted last Saturday when the Cavan team was freshened up with Reilly, Carolan, Madden, Brady & Boylan resulting in our youngest team selected in years but most off these lads seemed overawed by the occasion as they hadn't got sufficient game time previously.
anyway just my unbiased opinion on the current situation and will be interested in other posters replies
bond (Longford) - Posts: 174 - 20/06/2023 11:17:57
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I have a fire stick so thankfully it cost me nothing to watch it…. I wasn't watching it hoping my team would loose and for you to say that just shows how ignorant and deluded you are… It's people like you who are doing football in Cavan a lot of harm by applauding and accepting pure incompetence… When someone or something is wrong it should be called out… not accepted like what you do…. Cavan will never improve with the likes of you telling them they are doing a great job…. Call it for what it is and take your head out of the sand…" You were hoping that they'd lose. I and every other contributor here can see that. I, and the other actual supporters, am not applauding the performance on Saturday. I thought it was poor. However, lads like you, the sort who wallow in their own bitter opinions and negativity, aren't offering any worthwhile criticism. You're whole modus operandi is 'I told you so'. Telling other posters that they're ignorant sums this attitude up.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 20/06/2023 12:34:51
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Replying To bond: "Thought a lot about Saturday's game before i posted anything and just got a chance to read some of the usual polarized opinions on the forum. everyone is entitled to their opinion but we have some posters continuously completely negative on the Team & management who only seem happy when a defeat proves them correct and then we have the blind loyal supporters who seemingly cannot comprehend the dire tripe that this team & management have produced since winning the Ulster Champ in 2020.
Where do you start with a balanced opinion on the performance and indeed the overall situation the senior team is currently in?? firstly Micky Graham was a breathe of fresh air when he took over in 2019 leading us to a Ulster final & whatever the unusual circumstances in 2020 he became only the second manager in over 50 years to bring home the Anglo Celt cup. this achievement will always be recognized by Cavan supporters.
however my sincere opinion is that Micky should now step down as since winning Ulster the team has stagnated alarmingly resulting in consecutive relegations to Div 4 and despite bouncing back to Div 2 next year there appears to be a inability to raise performance levels for big games such as Tailteann final last year, Armagh game this year and last Saturday against Down. in my opinion this is due to:
1. pathethic negative style of play that is demoralizing supporters & players alike, resulting in reduced attendances and players dropping off the panel. to win big games the team has to be capable of scoring goals and again we failed to do so against Armagh & Down. also despite being defensive we are totally exposed at the back and Down could have scored 4/5 more goals if they were ruthless enough
2. blind loyalty to a select group of players that seemingly peaked in 2020 and have been diminishing yearly since but continue to be picked and indeed left on the field for the full duration of games when it is obvious that they should be replaced like last Saturday
3. a reluctance to introduce new players to the team to give them experience. this was particularly highlighted last Saturday when the Cavan team was freshened up with Reilly, Carolan, Madden, Brady & Boylan resulting in our youngest team selected in years but most off these lads seemed overawed by the occasion as they hadn't got sufficient game time previously.
anyway just my unbiased opinion on the current situation and will be interested in other posters replies" Excellent post .
Mickey done well in the first two seasons to be fair , but since 2020 it's been extremely dissapointing.
There is almost a different breed of manager coming through now , the likes of Lafferty and the guy down in Roscommon. I'm not sure mickey is on that level of football intellect to be honest . Some of the stuff at the weekend was just mind-blowing and so basic. GMAC at FF with no ball going in . Conceding the kick out but still not having our defense set for a counter attack . That's just some of the stuff that comes to mind.
Mickey's niche as a coach was always peaking lads for specific games and getting them up for a championship performance. The lads haven't looked motivated in a long time . It's time for a change and I'm sure Mickey will realise that too.
I hope the CB are brave in terms of appointment, Malachy o Rourke would be my pick. I Wonder could Mickey Hartes head be turned .
asdfg (Cavan) - Posts: 320 - 20/06/2023 12:35:58
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Replying To bond: "Thought a lot about Saturday's game before i posted anything and just got a chance to read some of the usual polarized opinions on the forum. everyone is entitled to their opinion but we have some posters continuously completely negative on the Team & management who only seem happy when a defeat proves them correct and then we have the blind loyal supporters who seemingly cannot comprehend the dire tripe that this team & management have produced since winning the Ulster Champ in 2020.
Where do you start with a balanced opinion on the performance and indeed the overall situation the senior team is currently in?? firstly Micky Graham was a breathe of fresh air when he took over in 2019 leading us to a Ulster final & whatever the unusual circumstances in 2020 he became only the second manager in over 50 years to bring home the Anglo Celt cup. this achievement will always be recognized by Cavan supporters.
however my sincere opinion is that Micky should now step down as since winning Ulster the team has stagnated alarmingly resulting in consecutive relegations to Div 4 and despite bouncing back to Div 2 next year there appears to be a inability to raise performance levels for big games such as Tailteann final last year, Armagh game this year and last Saturday against Down. in my opinion this is due to:
1. pathethic negative style of play that is demoralizing supporters & players alike, resulting in reduced attendances and players dropping off the panel. to win big games the team has to be capable of scoring goals and again we failed to do so against Armagh & Down. also despite being defensive we are totally exposed at the back and Down could have scored 4/5 more goals if they were ruthless enough
2. blind loyalty to a select group of players that seemingly peaked in 2020 and have been diminishing yearly since but continue to be picked and indeed left on the field for the full duration of games when it is obvious that they should be replaced like last Saturday
3. a reluctance to introduce new players to the team to give them experience. this was particularly highlighted last Saturday when the Cavan team was freshened up with Reilly, Carolan, Madden, Brady & Boylan resulting in our youngest team selected in years but most off these lads seemed overawed by the occasion as they hadn't got sufficient game time previously.
anyway just my unbiased opinion on the current situation and will be interested in other posters replies" Nobody here is praising the poor performances from the team. There are two groups engaging. One of these groups has some people, myself included, who believe that getting rid of the management is not a silver bullet that will reap instant results, and others, such as yourself, who would like a change of management. This group generally engage in respectful debate. The other group, personified by the lad above calling those who go to games fools, are consumed by agendas and vendettas, which make they wallow in loses like that against Down.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 20/06/2023 12:40:20
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Replying To asdfg: "Excellent post .
Mickey done well in the first two seasons to be fair , but since 2020 it's been extremely dissapointing.
There is almost a different breed of manager coming through now , the likes of Lafferty and the guy down in Roscommon. I'm not sure mickey is on that level of football intellect to be honest . Some of the stuff at the weekend was just mind-blowing and so basic. GMAC at FF with no ball going in . Conceding the kick out but still not having our defense set for a counter attack . That's just some of the stuff that comes to mind.
Mickey's niche as a coach was always peaking lads for specific games and getting them up for a championship performance. The lads haven't looked motivated in a long time . It's time for a change and I'm sure Mickey will realise that too.
I hope the CB are brave in terms of appointment, Malachy o Rourke would be my pick. I Wonder could Mickey Hartes head be turned ." I didn't put any names forward as Mickey is still in the role.
But Harte and O'Rourke are 2 of the first names that spring to mind.
My gut feeling is the county board won't consider an outside candidate for financial reasons.
So that leaves a local manager - and I don't think we've a better man within the county than the man who's there.
I'd be more than happy with Mickey to stay on and bring in a completely fresh backroom team.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 20/06/2023 12:55:41
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Replying To asdfg: "Excellent post .
Mickey done well in the first two seasons to be fair , but since 2020 it's been extremely dissapointing.
There is almost a different breed of manager coming through now , the likes of Lafferty and the guy down in Roscommon. I'm not sure mickey is on that level of football intellect to be honest . Some of the stuff at the weekend was just mind-blowing and so basic. GMAC at FF with no ball going in . Conceding the kick out but still not having our defense set for a counter attack . That's just some of the stuff that comes to mind.
Mickey's niche as a coach was always peaking lads for specific games and getting them up for a championship performance. The lads haven't looked motivated in a long time . It's time for a change and I'm sure Mickey will realise that too.
I hope the CB are brave in terms of appointment, Malachy o Rourke would be my pick. I Wonder could Mickey Hartes head be turned ." I'd still like to see a Cavan man as manager with a big experienced Number 2 with him.
It's the same problem we had with TH in charge. No help. Need experience with them.
Look at the counties still involved the Number 2s are very experienced.
That has been our downfall , we can't question the commitment of men like TH and MG but I'd question their help. Certainly not up to inter county standard.
Now if Mickey can get someone like Malachy O Rourke in with him I'd be all for him having a crack at Div 2.
Inter county management is far too big to do on your own.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 20/06/2023 12:58:46
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Replying To Fontofwisdom: "You were hoping that they'd lose. I and every other contributor here can see that. I, and the other actual supporters, am not applauding the performance on Saturday. I thought it was poor. However, lads like you, the sort who wallow in their own bitter opinions and negativity, aren't offering any worthwhile criticism. You're whole modus operandi is 'I told you so'. Telling other posters that they're ignorant sums this attitude up." Saying supporters were hoping Cavan would loose is just an ignorant comment…. who are you to say such a thing…. People like you always think comments are negative when they don't agree with your agenda…. Anybody with an ounce of football knowledge would agree that the way Cavan approaches games and their style of play gives them little or no chance when up against even moderate opposition… Micky Graham said it didn't matter if we slipped down the Divisions when it came to Championship time and because he said it the likes of you were falling over yourselves in agreement and now when everything went to pot for the last 3 years in the Championship you are not willing to admit that he was totally wrong… If he stays on ( he shouldn't ) he has to rid himself of his back room team and get some new blood on the panel…..and most of all change the style of playing.. it must be soul destroying to play in that team particularly if you are a forward…. Even you must admit that what's been served up is dreadful to watch and reduces the teams chances every time they take the field
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 20/06/2023 13:20:28
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Replying To asdfg: "Excellent post .
Mickey done well in the first two seasons to be fair , but since 2020 it's been extremely dissapointing.
There is almost a different breed of manager coming through now , the likes of Lafferty and the guy down in Roscommon. I'm not sure mickey is on that level of football intellect to be honest . Some of the stuff at the weekend was just mind-blowing and so basic. GMAC at FF with no ball going in . Conceding the kick out but still not having our defense set for a counter attack . That's just some of the stuff that comes to mind.
Mickey's niche as a coach was always peaking lads for specific games and getting them up for a championship performance. The lads haven't looked motivated in a long time . It's time for a change and I'm sure Mickey will realise that too.
I hope the CB are brave in terms of appointment, Malachy o Rourke would be my pick. I Wonder could Mickey Hartes head be turned ." Your are agreeing with his post and then in the same breath suggesting one of the most negative managers around in Mickey Harte.
Cutler (Cavan) - Posts: 33 - 20/06/2023 13:25:12
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Saying supporters were hoping Cavan would loose is just an ignorant comment…. who are you to say such a thing…. People like you always think comments are negative when they don't agree with your agenda…. Anybody with an ounce of football knowledge would agree that the way Cavan approaches games and their style of play gives them little or no chance when up against even moderate opposition… Micky Graham said it didn't matter if we slipped down the Divisions when it came to Championship time and because he said it the likes of you were falling over yourselves in agreement and now when everything went to pot for the last 3 years in the Championship you are not willing to admit that he was totally wrong… If he stays on ( he shouldn't ) he has to rid himself of his back room team and get some new blood on the panel…..and most of all change the style of playing.. it must be soul destroying to play in that team particularly if you are a forward…. Even you must admit that what's been served up is dreadful to watch and reduces the teams chances every time they take the field" You're not a supporter. You said that they were rubbish and that only fools watch inter county football. They're your own words, clearly not the words of 'a supporter'!
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 20/06/2023 15:43:41
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Replying To Fontofwisdom: "You're not a supporter. You said that they were rubbish and that only fools watch inter county football. They're your own words, clearly not the words of 'a supporter'!" I am not a supporter of this type of rubbish football and as attendance figures at Cavan matches show the majority of people are of the same opinion… I have followed Cavan all over the country and out of the country but I can't bring myself to endure this sort of rubbish….. If you think it's great then continue to waste your money going while in doing so you are agreeing with this sort of play …: and you will have plenty of vantage points to view the match's from as there will be nobody at them….
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 20/06/2023 16:19:46
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Replying To Breffni1969: "I'd still like to see a Cavan man as manager with a big experienced Number 2 with him.
It's the same problem we had with TH in charge. No help. Need experience with them.
Look at the counties still involved the Number 2s are very experienced.
That has been our downfall , we can't question the commitment of men like TH and MG but I'd question their help. Certainly not up to inter county standard.
Now if Mickey can get someone like Malachy O Rourke in with him I'd be all for him having a crack at Div 2.
Inter county management is far too big to do on your own." Dont think this would work Malachy would need to be coming in as number 1 Mickey had a great few years early on with great championship results but it has all become very stale and our attacking style of play coupled with a tight defence has disappeared for some reason dont know why. The last time this team really played well was against Donegal in the championship last year in a great game of open attacking football from both teams why have we not gone out with this attitude in all our matches what has changed. Thanks Mickey for a great few years early on but we really need fresh faces and a new approach if there is any chance of this team retaining their division 2 status and staying competitive in the anglo celt cup.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 20/06/2023 17:59:12
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Since we won Ulster we have really regressed under Mickey. Winning Ulster was brilliant but we haven't kicked on to try and win another or progressed on in the league.
I think the some of the players are happy to have won Ulster and don't have the hunger to push on and only way I see us improving is a new voice in to freshen things up.
Some players are gone passed their peaked and need to be used more wisely than starting
tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 20/06/2023 18:22:46
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "Dont think this would work Malachy would need to be coming in as number 1 Mickey had a great few years early on with great championship results but it has all become very stale and our attacking style of play coupled with a tight defence has disappeared for some reason dont know why. The last time this team really played well was against Donegal in the championship last year in a great game of open attacking football from both teams why have we not gone out with this attitude in all our matches what has changed. Thanks Mickey for a great few years early on but we really need fresh faces and a new approach if there is any chance of this team retaining their division 2 status and staying competitive in the anglo celt cup." I only used Malachy O Rourke as an example. Someone of that calibre I mean.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 20/06/2023 18:45:59
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I am not a supporter of this type of rubbish football and as attendance figures at Cavan matches show the majority of people are of the same opinion… I have followed Cavan all over the country and out of the country but I can't bring myself to endure this sort of rubbish….. If you think it's great then continue to waste your money going while in doing so you are agreeing with this sort of play …: and you will have plenty of vantage points to view the match's from as there will be nobody at them…." I'm withdrawing from this argument. You're entitled to your opinion. However, It's becoming too charged with a personal aspect, albeit us both being anonymous. That's ridiculous, in my humble opinion. We'll converse again in the future, I'm sure.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 20/06/2023 20:40:40
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Regardless of who is managing the team next season there has to be a complete change of approach to how we set up to play…. We don't have good enough players to implement the type of stuff Graham was at.. He was simply copying what Tyrone and other defensive type teams were doing but the big difference is we don't have the quality of forwards that these teams have and our defenders didn't seem too sure of what they were at either… FF is the only place for McKiernan to play as he leaves you a man short when he plays further out the field because he can't tackle or work back and all the big teams know that…yet when he was placed at Full Forward last week he never got a ball kicked into him… bonkers stuff… Our underage setup down the years has been a disaster including the 4 in a row U 21 as it didn't provide us with one decent scoring forward… Our underage teams are set up the same defensive way as our senior team which in my opinion is completely nonsensical… We need young players to go out and express themselves , take risks and enjoy playing instead of been hamstrung and over analysed to the last with any decent football coached out of them by manager's implementing defensive systems.. When Kerry recently lost an All Ireland minor final Colin Cooper was on the panel and interviewed after the game…. He said he wasn't in the least disappointed as the better team won but more importantly he spotted 4/5 very good players who would definitely make an impact at senior level… he said underage is for developing and finding players.. if you win something it's a bonus but it's of no value if no player's progress and make a positive contribution to the senior set up…. We need to change our approach and attitude to the game at all levels or we are going nowhere fast….
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 21/06/2023 17:18:50
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Regardless of who is managing the team next season there has to be a complete change of approach to how we set up to play…. We don't have good enough players to implement the type of stuff Graham was at.. He was simply copying what Tyrone and other defensive type teams were doing but the big difference is we don't have the quality of forwards that these teams have and our defenders didn't seem too sure of what they were at either… FF is the only place for McKiernan to play as he leaves you a man short when he plays further out the field because he can't tackle or work back and all the big teams know that…yet when he was placed at Full Forward last week he never got a ball kicked into him… bonkers stuff… Our underage setup down the years has been a disaster including the 4 in a row U 21 as it didn't provide us with one decent scoring forward… Our underage teams are set up the same defensive way as our senior team which in my opinion is completely nonsensical… We need young players to go out and express themselves , take risks and enjoy playing instead of been hamstrung and over analysed to the last with any decent football coached out of them by manager's implementing defensive systems.. When Kerry recently lost an All Ireland minor final Colin Cooper was on the panel and interviewed after the game…. He said he wasn't in the least disappointed as the better team won but more importantly he spotted 4/5 very good players who would definitely make an impact at senior level… he said underage is for developing and finding players.. if you win something it's a bonus but it's of no value if no player's progress and make a positive contribution to the senior set up…. We need to change our approach and attitude to the game at all levels or we are going nowhere fast…." I think the game in general has to change. It's glorified Basketball at the moment where keeping possession is the main object.
Players/ Coaches need to start realising winning a 50/50 ball or beating an opponent with skill/ sidestep is far more beneficial than pussyfooting across the back 4 swing for an opening that ain't coming.
How inter county players are not willing/ able to have a go inside the 45 is baffling. Even with the forward mark they still feel the need to kick it backwards rather than have a pot shot and for it to drop short and lose possession.
I'm not just talking about Cavan it's everywhere.
It's frustrating for any decent forward. And it's probably why they're only a handful of decent forwards in the whole country.
One rule I would bring in is any backpass to the keeper must be a footpass
And any pass from the keeper outside the small square must be a footpass too.
That would soon stop the messing around the 13/20m line as it's very easy for a short footpass to go astray .
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 22/06/2023 13:25:54
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