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Replying To Breffni1969: "Agree to an extent but if things are not going well you have to change it. Why not bring someone like Martin Reilly a wise old head into the forwards mid way through the 2nd half?
Surely having a team fired up is part of management?
Look at Waterford hurlers against lLimerick. Trailing the whole game but never gave up. Poor shooting cost them.
But Davy Fitz had them fired up. They were beaten but had a go." Do you think the Cavan players gave up?
I'd say poor shooting cost us.
And I'd say we kept going until the end (if anything, it took too long to get going, but I definitely wouldn't say the players gave up).
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5200 - 25/04/2023 17:52:27
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Replying To cavanblueman: "As I said before, the manager can pick a team, but once they're on the pitch its up to them to perform. We lost to Antrim and Fermanagh a few weeks back, played a terrible 1st half in Croker, but then the players decided to up it a level and win well in the end. Thats down to the players.
At the end of the day, if the players dont perform, there's nothing management can do about it. He has the best players in the County on the panel, picked his strongest 15 based on training, league performance and challenges between the league final the Armagh match. Its not managements fault that the players slowed the game down, didnt make runs, kicked 16 wides, made wrong decisions, we are talking about senior inter county footballers making the same silly errors and decisions week in and week out.
Graham could decide to walk this year and then what, bring in another manager to manage same group of players. But be careful what you wish for. Remember the black death and our abysmal record in the Championship under a certain you know who. Graham We go to an Ulster Final in 2019, the first appearance since 2001, won an Ulster Final in 2020, our first title in 30 years and the first time Cavan got to back to back Ulster Finals since the 60s." you must not have heard Mickeys interview after the game he said we probably gave them to much respect the idea was to play it cagey early on that was his words so thats what the team was sent out to do and not concede a goal same as his tactic in the final against fermanagh same as tailteann cup final problem now is mickey is a slow learner.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 25/04/2023 19:46:26
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Replying To cavanblueman: "As I said before, the manager can pick a team, but once they're on the pitch its up to them to perform. We lost to Antrim and Fermanagh a few weeks back, played a terrible 1st half in Croker, but then the players decided to up it a level and win well in the end. Thats down to the players.
At the end of the day, if the players dont perform, there's nothing management can do about it. He has the best players in the County on the panel, picked his strongest 15 based on training, league performance and challenges between the league final the Armagh match. Its not managements fault that the players slowed the game down, didnt make runs, kicked 16 wides, made wrong decisions, we are talking about senior inter county footballers making the same silly errors and decisions week in and week out.
Graham could decide to walk this year and then what, bring in another manager to manage same group of players. But be careful what you wish for. Remember the black death and our abysmal record in the Championship under a certain you know who. Graham We go to an Ulster Final in 2019, the first appearance since 2001, won an Ulster Final in 2020, our first title in 30 years and the first time Cavan got to back to back Ulster Finals since the 60s." Doesn't take a genius to figure out who you are. I knew damn well you'd never criticize your ole pal Graham. If that wasn't Black Death on Saturday then I dunno what is. Was the game plan to hand pass Armagh into dizziness and a potential seizure? Lads starting midfield and center back 3 games ago not even on the panel.
JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 25/04/2023 21:13:37
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Replying To cavanman47: "Do you think the Cavan players gave up?
I'd say poor shooting cost us.
And I'd say we kept going until the end (if anything, it took too long to get going, but I definitely wouldn't say the players gave up)." Well if that's the best level of intensity that we can bring to a 1st round of the championship playing in front of a home crowd it dont bear well for the future under Mickey.
We never laid a glove on them, shades of the Antrim game in the league .
I'd blame Mickey for the way GMC was used. A blind man would know that GMC best days are behind him out around midfield but he can be a great asset around the square with his high fielding and being able to kick from both feet.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 26/04/2023 10:55:27
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Replying To cavanman47: "Do you think the Cavan players gave up?
I'd say poor shooting cost us.
And I'd say we kept going until the end (if anything, it took too long to get going, but I definitely wouldn't say the players gave up)." I would tend to agree….. I have never seen a Cavan team give up … they are just not up to the level of intensity that the top 10 or so teams bring to Championship football… This has all come from us playing basement league football for the last 3 years… Mickey Graham was unconcerned about Cavan slipping down the league's but I certainly was… We are miles off where we were when he took over the team… there is only one person to blame for that and the County Board who should have removed him the evening we lost to Wicklow in Navan to send us down to the 4th division… A win in the Taltainn Cup now is all that can save him and even with that I think he should go….along with his hangers on..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 26/04/2023 11:28:09
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I would tend to agree….. I have never seen a Cavan team give up … they are just not up to the level of intensity that the top 10 or so teams bring to Championship football… This has all come from us playing basement league football for the last 3 years… Mickey Graham was unconcerned about Cavan slipping down the league's but I certainly was… We are miles off where we were when he took over the team… there is only one person to blame for that and the County Board who should have removed him the evening we lost to Wicklow in Navan to send us down to the 4th division… A win in the Taltainn Cup now is all that can save him and even with that I think he should go….along with his hangers on.." The intensity we play at is down to the management. Take Louth for example. Fairly good league campaign winning 4 games in Div 2.
8 points down against Westmeath last Sunday at half time and fought back to win by 2.
You would expect no less from a Mickey Harte trained team.
Derry the same. Few years ago they couldn't buy a win yet Rory Gallagher has instilled passion in their play. He shows it himself on the sideline. It rubs off on the players.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 26/04/2023 12:12:04
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We need a manager who's not afraid to take chances, give the young and upcoming players a chance in the Mickey Mouse cup
desagov (Cavan) - Posts: 209 - 26/04/2023 14:25:33
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Replying To JamsieMac: "Doesn't take a genius to figure out who you are. I knew damn well you'd never criticize your ole pal Graham. If that wasn't Black Death on Saturday then I dunno what is. Was the game plan to hand pass Armagh into dizziness and a potential seizure? Lads starting midfield and center back 3 games ago not even on the panel." Ah good man! The Black Death, another supporter of the Terry era and the intercontinental cup victory in New York!
3 games ago we lost against Fermanagh in Breffni Park, 2 games ago, we beat Fermanagh in Croke Park in the League Final and all but one/or two that started or finished in the league final started or finished the Armagh match so there's no argument that he picked the best players available to him.
But maybe you should look to go into management and perhaps manage a County Team to an Ulster Final win, or a few league titles, or maybe a club team to a Provincial Championship win.
Another keyboard warrior with no knowledge about football.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 26/04/2023 14:33:31
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Ah good man! The Black Death, another supporter of the Terry era and the intercontinental cup victory in New York!
3 games ago we lost against Fermanagh in Breffni Park, 2 games ago, we beat Fermanagh in Croke Park in the League Final and all but one/or two that started or finished in the league final started or finished the Armagh match so there's no argument that he picked the best players available to him.
But maybe you should look to go into management and perhaps manage a County Team to an Ulster Final win, or a few league titles, or maybe a club team to a Provincial Championship win.
Another keyboard warrior with no knowledge about football." No here to bash Mickey his record speaks for its self . But he does need a decent backroom team if he's to continue.
Just explain to me what Ricey brings or Burke for that matter?
If either were any addition to a county team surely their own counties would have them.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 26/04/2023 16:14:40
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Ah good man! The Black Death, another supporter of the Terry era and the intercontinental cup victory in New York!
3 games ago we lost against Fermanagh in Breffni Park, 2 games ago, we beat Fermanagh in Croke Park in the League Final and all but one/or two that started or finished in the league final started or finished the Armagh match so there's no argument that he picked the best players available to him.
But maybe you should look to go into management and perhaps manage a County Team to an Ulster Final win, or a few league titles, or maybe a club team to a Provincial Championship win.
Another keyboard warrior with no knowledge about football." So we lost 3 out of the last 4 games playing very poorly and you somehow managed to drag Hylands name into the mud. That's a talent I'll give you that.
What makes you think the only option is reverting back to 'black death'? Can we not attract a manager who can enforce adaptive forward play? During the 'black death' we sent Armagh packing from Breffni and beat Derry in a high scoring game. Why have they progressed onwards to all Ireland contenders and us gone to Div 4 in the meantime? Just blind luck I suppose.
We had a new lad full forward the entire league and when we needed a goal Saturday he couldn't get a minute. Bring on a man who didn't play all league to slow possession down. Ricey a highly decorated corner back and yet our backs getting the run around. 9 pts down at home in first half.
You have an issue with me criticizing Graham with a childish dig and yet you do the same to Hyland??? Maybe you can manage some u21s to Ulster titles or get promoted to Div1. More likely hide behind your cringey FB page
JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 26/04/2023 16:30:59
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Replying To Breffni1969: "No here to bash Mickey his record speaks for its self . But he does need a decent backroom team if he's to continue.
Just explain to me what Ricey brings or Burke for that matter?
If either were any addition to a county team surely their own counties would have them." The only reason they are with Cavan is cash… Do you honestly believe they are in there for the love of Cavan football…. Mickey Graham has surrounded himself with a flitter of hangers on who are all on big expenses and then what we seen on Saturday and many times before is what we get… We need a total clear out… Mickey Graham has brought Cavan backwards and how people thought we should be beating the likes of Armagh with our recent Championship performances is beyond me…. Cavan are a poor team led by a totally overrated manager…!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 26/04/2023 16:41:16
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Look I'm as disappointed in the result and performance as anyone and agree with some of the criticism on here but I think it's fair to say Mickey Graham has achieved more in the game than anyone on here ever has or will so a bit of respect wouldn't go astray
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12216 - 26/04/2023 17:44:32
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Replying To Breffni40: "Look I'm as disappointed in the result and performance as anyone and agree with some of the criticism on here but I think it's fair to say Mickey Graham has achieved more in the game than anyone on here ever has or will so a bit of respect wouldn't go astray" Your right….. it's a fair achievement to take a competitive side from Division 1 to Division 4 and turn them into a team that's easy to beat in the Championship and still be lauded as somehow being a good manager…. Mind boggling logic..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 27/04/2023 08:22:00
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I finally plucked up the strength to watch the game back last night. Not as bad as I thought but the first half was extremely frustrating. In my opinion there were two main reasons we lost;
1. We made unforced error after unforced error; Rushing passes, shots, panicking on the ball, handling errors, passing it to Cavan men outnumbered by Armagh men. We looked nervous and just needed to settle into it early on. Maybe the pressure of needing to win weighed on us more than expected. Galway showed us how to play against a blanket the following day.
2. We left too much space in front of our full back line. In fairness, for Armagh to hit 1-10 with not a single wide in them conditions is some going but we never made them think. Turbitt a confidence player, in form after the Antrim game and he has two handy points from play off his weaker foot inside four minutes. That's inexcusable. We had a bit of a breeze. We needed to shut up shop keep it tight for first 15 minutes, double up on Turbitt and then chip away as the game went on. Crazy tactics to leave so much space inside with Cavan men standing out at our 45.
As we all predicted, their long kickout was a complete shambles and we pushed up well on it particularly in the second half. Would be interesting to see the stats but we must of won 70/80 percent of Rafferty's long kickouts. Their defensive structure was set up but when we took our time and ran at them, gaps opened up quite easily. The saddest part of the game was our inability to work the ball to Paddy Lynch inside. Lynch would have had Forker on toast if he had gotten any kind of ball inside, a complete mismatch in my opinion.
Would have to agree with other posters regarding split season. Over 10 thousand sitting/standing in the cold and rain completely zapped what should have been a brilliant atmosphere. This never felt like a championship game, even before the ball was thrown in. Lunacy to think our inter county season is effectively over in April.
Hopefully Armagh go on to win it now. They are enjoyable to watch and bring good support and colour. Other forwards taking on the responsibility when O'Neill is not there. Jarly Óg Burns didn't look fully fit and they have more to come back in. Down football on a bit of a wave at the moment but would still think Armagh will have too much for them.
97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 378 - 27/04/2023 12:01:37
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Replying To 97Cavans: "I finally plucked up the strength to watch the game back last night. Not as bad as I thought but the first half was extremely frustrating. In my opinion there were two main reasons we lost;
1. We made unforced error after unforced error; Rushing passes, shots, panicking on the ball, handling errors, passing it to Cavan men outnumbered by Armagh men. We looked nervous and just needed to settle into it early on. Maybe the pressure of needing to win weighed on us more than expected. Galway showed us how to play against a blanket the following day.
2. We left too much space in front of our full back line. In fairness, for Armagh to hit 1-10 with not a single wide in them conditions is some going but we never made them think. Turbitt a confidence player, in form after the Antrim game and he has two handy points from play off his weaker foot inside four minutes. That's inexcusable. We had a bit of a breeze. We needed to shut up shop keep it tight for first 15 minutes, double up on Turbitt and then chip away as the game went on. Crazy tactics to leave so much space inside with Cavan men standing out at our 45.
As we all predicted, their long kickout was a complete shambles and we pushed up well on it particularly in the second half. Would be interesting to see the stats but we must of won 70/80 percent of Rafferty's long kickouts. Their defensive structure was set up but when we took our time and ran at them, gaps opened up quite easily. The saddest part of the game was our inability to work the ball to Paddy Lynch inside. Lynch would have had Forker on toast if he had gotten any kind of ball inside, a complete mismatch in my opinion.
Would have to agree with other posters regarding split season. Over 10 thousand sitting/standing in the cold and rain completely zapped what should have been a brilliant atmosphere. This never felt like a championship game, even before the ball was thrown in. Lunacy to think our inter county season is effectively over in April.
Hopefully Armagh go on to win it now. They are enjoyable to watch and bring good support and colour. Other forwards taking on the responsibility when O'Neill is not there. Jarly Óg Burns didn't look fully fit and they have more to come back in. Down football on a bit of a wave at the moment but would still think Armagh will have too much for them." Good post. The unforced errors were a killer as was the lack of composure and good decision making, good sides don't do that and it meant that Armagh really didn't have to do too much to be in the position they were at half-time. Thought they were very nervous too, which again they should be able to control better at this stage, it also meant they didn't have a cut in the first half because nerves make you play more cautiously hoping you don't make a mistake which happened anyway so why not go for it a bit more?
BreffniGael (Cavan) - Posts: 46 - 27/04/2023 12:17:42
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Your right….. it's a fair achievement to take a competitive side from Division 1 to Division 4 and turn them into a team that's easy to beat in the Championship and still be lauded as somehow being a good manager…. Mind boggling logic.." Remind us again how many managers won an Ulster Championship with Cavan since Martin McHugh or back to back Ulster Finals since the 602, thats right, there was only 1 , Mickey Graham. Remind us again how many Championship games the previous managers won with Cavan.
Yep, we we got relegated to Div 4, but he took us right back up to Div 2 having won 2 league titles in a row.
So lets see how Div 2 goes this year before passing judgement.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 27/04/2023 15:00:41
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Replying To JamsieMac: "So we lost 3 out of the last 4 games playing very poorly and you somehow managed to drag Hylands name into the mud. That's a talent I'll give you that.
What makes you think the only option is reverting back to 'black death'? Can we not attract a manager who can enforce adaptive forward play? During the 'black death' we sent Armagh packing from Breffni and beat Derry in a high scoring game. Why have they progressed onwards to all Ireland contenders and us gone to Div 4 in the meantime? Just blind luck I suppose.
We had a new lad full forward the entire league and when we needed a goal Saturday he couldn't get a minute. Bring on a man who didn't play all league to slow possession down. Ricey a highly decorated corner back and yet our backs getting the run around. 9 pts down at home in first half.
You have an issue with me criticizing Graham with a childish dig and yet you do the same to Hyland??? Maybe you can manage some u21s to Ulster titles or get promoted to Div1. More likely hide behind your cringey FB page" Hyland had the pick of 4 Ulster U21 winning teams yet his senior Ulster Championship record is abysmal.
During the black death, Derry sent us packing, so did Monaghan x 2, Donegal, Roscommon, Tipperary and an absolute 16 pt hammering by Tyrone.
Graham took Cavan to back to back Ulster Finals for the first time since the 60's, and the Ulster Final win was the first win in 30 years. Since that, he's lost at least 12 players from that winning team, but he has brought a lot of young lads in to the panel and they will develop over time. Yes, we went to Division 4, but he's brought in new blood and we're back up in Division Two with back to back promotions.
The reason Derry have progressed is the have the better players, so have Armagh. Thats the difference, its not management, its the players. Graham had a game plan Saturday night and the players didnt follow it.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 27/04/2023 15:21:45
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Replying To BreffniGael: "Good post. The unforced errors were a killer as was the lack of composure and good decision making, good sides don't do that and it meant that Armagh really didn't have to do too much to be in the position they were at half-time. Thought they were very nervous too, which again they should be able to control better at this stage, it also meant they didn't have a cut in the first half because nerves make you play more cautiously hoping you don't make a mistake which happened anyway so why not go for it a bit more?" They would as you say "go for it" if management would let them go for it and express themselves… Players are afraid to make mistakes as it will be highlighted by the eagle eyed stats men and the player in question will be dragged over the coals for loosing possession… The whole enjoyment is gone out of playing County football and hence you only have robotic type players now turning out… The more skilful exiting type of players are now overlooked because they pose a greater risk of giving away possession which with modern coaches is a big no no…. Is it any wonder the dwindling crowds at games are getting quieter and quieter all the time…?
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3057 - 27/04/2023 15:57:37
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Manager has to go
tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 27/04/2023 18:12:04
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Your right….. it's a fair achievement to take a competitive side from Division 1 to Division 4 and turn them into a team that's easy to beat in the Championship and still be lauded as somehow being a good manager…. Mind boggling logic.." In my opinion he's built up enough credit to stay in the job if that's what he wants to do. He should have the chance to get a crack at Div 2, but that standard will tell us Cavans proper level. We'd be doing well to stay up
JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 27/04/2023 20:04:10
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